"Gross Food"

[Linnen Malfoy]

hippiesoul said:

And that Pocky thing, what is it? I don't think they sell it around here.

Pocky is this very thin cookie (I don't know if it's really a cookie, the box says it's a biscuit stick, if that gives you any idea what it is) and partialy dipped in chocolate.
It comes in LOTS of flavors and is quite possibly the best snack food. ^^

[Princess Ember Mononoke]

Mushroom said:

I really don't think there's anything more wrong with eating most animals than plants. Both are living, and neither are self-aware. Hurting the animals isn't good, but beyond that, I can't see many reasons not to eat meat.

I've read tons of horror stories about the conditions and method of killing for meat animals, but I don't think not eating meat will help solve that. Maybe making some way to cheaply, efficiently, and painlessly kill animals that doesn't render them inedible would help--then meat companies could do that and still both make a profit and keep up with demand. Maybe making better animal protection laws would help.

That's my opinion on the matter, anyway; I could quite easily be wrong.

Er...what was this thread about originally?

Edit: This is my twenty-fifth post...rather pathetic compared to nearly two thousand...heh.

How do you know that animals are not self aware? They act just like humans would on many occaisions. Some scientists who claim that animals aren't self aware stufy them and predict their reactions to things "as if they were" saying that animals "are programmed to act AS IF they were self aware." Bullsteamy dung, in my opinion. You have just hit upon a subject even dearer to me than vegeteriannism: BASIC animal rights. Also, I find it VERY hard to believe that of the MILLIONS of species of vertebrates, only one has developed basic self awareness. Don't you find that odd? I know this is just a jumble, but I am very upset right now. Give me one reason you think that animals aren't self aware and I'll a) prove that it's nonsense or b) admit that you have a point in the REASON department but then give you ten reasons to think that they are. Are you up to the challenge?

P.S. PLEASE don't use the Bible as a reason. That just gives everyone a headache.

[Princess Ember Mononoke]

And as for not eating meat not helping solve it, it won't unless the few vegeterians can convince many more. But eventually demand will go down and supply will have to follow for the farmers to keep from losing money. And until then, I can AT LEAST be proud that I am not a part of the system.

[Linnen Malfoy]

Mushroom said:

I've read tons of horror stories about the conditions and method of killing for meat animals,

I've read stuff about that! The worst I ever read was The Jungle by Upton Sinclar (I spelled that wrong, I know. I'm just too lazy to go and find my copy and learn the correct spelling)

I personaly like meat, because I don't like veggies. I love animals, but I suppose it's never bothered me about eating them...
Thats why I like kosher meat. It's killed in a quick, human way. The animal feels no pain and in the end the meat is pretty tasty! ^^
I'd support being a vegitarian, but I love hot dogs and hamburgers, so I'd be a lost cause...

"FIGHT FOR ANIMAL RIGHTS!...Oh..is that a cheeseburger? Meat..."

[mushroom]

How do you know that animals are not self aware? They act just like humans would on many occaisions. Some scientists who claim that animals aren't self aware stufy them and predict their reactions to things "as if they were" saying that animals "are programmed to act AS IF they were self aware." Bullsteamy dung, in my opinion. You have just hit upon a subject even dearer to me than vegeteriannism: BASIC animal rights. Also, I find it VERY hard to believe that of the MILLIONS of species of vertebrates, only one has developed basic self awareness. Don't you find that odd? I know this is just a jumble, but I am very upset right now. Give me one reason you think that animals aren't self aware and I'll a) prove that it's nonsense or b) admit that you have a point in the REASON department but then give you ten reasons to think that they are. Are you up to the challenge?

No, I don't believe that humans are the only self-aware animals. I believe that most animals are not.

You could note that wings on a bird, when spread, will slow a bird down if it falls from a great height. You could predict that a parachute would do the same. That doesn’t mean that a parachute is part of a living thing. (I’m divided on the merits of that argument of yours, however; the scientist’s statement does sound rather idiotic.)

I do believe in basic animal rights. Animals should not be tortured. Animals should not be killed unless their death serves a legitimate purpose, such as food or clothing.

I don’t believe that most animals are self-aware because I have not seen convincing evidence that they are. I think it also depends on your definition of self-awareness and how self-aware one must be to be considered self-aware; for me, self-awareness is thinking abstractly, such as higher mathematics or language or thinking about how and why one can think about how and why one can think or why one exists and what exactly existing is about. Would animals be capable of speech if they had the same mouth and throat structure as humans? For some, yes. For most, no. Look at parrots. They’re capable of making human sounds, but their ‘speech’ is imitation. Look at certain primates. They can hold a conversation in sign language. So, some animals are probably self-aware, while some are, apparently, not.

I am up to the challenge of debating this, but not to the extent that it begins a war. I'm willing to agree to disagree. I definitely won't continue if this gets to be more of an argument than a debate--getting the last word isn't worth that much to me.

[Lappi]

Linnen said:

Pocky is this very thin cookie (I don't know if it's really a cookie, the box says it's a biscuit stick, if that gives you any idea what it is) and partialy dipped in chocolate.
It comes in LOTS of flavors and is quite possibly the best snack food. ^^

OH!! I used to eat it when I was little! They're little sticks stuffies, and I think Pocky is a company name. There's also one type that partially dipped in strawberry stuffies. Ooo... I haven't eaten it in a while! There are these other ones that are plain and you can dip it in the thing instead of having it already dipped for you. And there's also these salt ones (without chocolate or strawberry).

^^ Yummy'su!

[peachifruit]

adoriblelapin said:

There are these other ones that are plain and you can dip it in the thing instead of having it already dipped for you.

You wouldn't happen to be talking about 'Yan-Yan', would you? (I think I spelled it right.) The buiscit sticks in those are slightly wider, and there isn't enough dip for them. Or maybe I use too much. ^^

[Lappi]

Yes... Pocky are the super skinny kind. I forgot that the dipable ones were actually thicker *knocks head* Well, they're both yummy! I like the salty ones the best, because I don't really like sweet things... or salty things... o.o When I get the err... Yan-Yans, was it? or Yam.. no... err.. well, anyway, when I used to buy those, I let my brother use all the dip because I didn't like sweet stuffies. Mmm, bread sticks!

Alright, now we're talking about yumym snacks, and not gross food. O.O

[hippiesoul]

Mushroom said:

No, I don't believe that humans are the only self-aware animals. I believe that most animals are not.

You could note that wings on a bird, when spread, will slow a bird down if it falls from a great height. You could predict that a parachute would do the same. That doesn’t mean that a parachute is part of a living thing. (I’m divided on the merits of that argument of yours, however; the scientist’s statement does sound rather idiotic.)

I do believe in basic animal rights. Animals should not be tortured. Animals should not be killed unless their death serves a legitimate purpose, such as food or clothing.

I don’t believe that most animals are self-aware because I have not seen convincing evidence that they are. I think it also depends on your definition of self-awareness and how self-aware one must be to be considered self-aware; for me, self-awareness is thinking abstractly, such as higher mathematics or language or thinking about how and why one can think about how and why one can think or why one exists and what exactly existing is about. Would animals be capable of speech if they had the same mouth and throat structure as humans? For some, yes. For most, no. Look at parrots. They’re capable of making human sounds, but their ‘speech’ is imitation. Look at certain primates. They can hold a conversation in sign language. So, some animals are probably self-aware, while some are, apparently, not.

I am up to the challenge of debating this, but not to the extent that it begins a war. I'm willing to agree to disagree. I definitely won't continue if this gets to be more of an argument than a debate--getting the last word isn't worth that much to me.

If your first post has gotten me upset, this second one sure did make me more upset. Like ember, this is an issue I feel strong about, and I have more than many arguments to back my opinions.
First, self awareness is NOT the ability to know maths or write an essay - that's logic and reason. How can you say a cat, for instance, is not self aware? Just the simple fact that they can avoid certain objects, places or situations to protect themselves if they got hurt there before? just because an animal doesn't have the abilities we have, does that make it okay to kill them?

How is it possible to kill some living animal without hurting them? Of course they are going to feel pain! They have a nervous system, they have a brain, they CAN and WILL feel pain, even if killed in the most human way possible.

As for food being a good reason to kill a cow... well, that's a big fat lie. Did you know that if everyone in the world was a vegetarian there wouldn't be hunger in the world? If a cow takes X space to eat (for grass and all that), and Y years to grow enough to be killed and to feed Z people, then the exact same space in those exact same years if planted with soy or other vegetable would feed many MANY more people (well more than twice, or even three times more)? So you can see that food is not a good reason to kill an animal. Clothes is the same. You don't need to kill a sheep to get the wool, and you can dress in cotton, polyester or any man made material - do you really need to kill a snake just because their skin would look good in a pair of boots? That's selfish and cruel.

In other days, in the past, people were not so educated about this, but now we are. Now we KNOW that we can live, and be healthy (even healthier than meat eaters) if we follow a vegetarian diet, so why do we keep killing animals? If everyone was a vegetarian, it would not only make this planet a prettier one, with planted fields instead of ugly building where they kill animals, but the Human race would also live better, with better health and not so much misery. Besides, meat rots in your intestines.

And don't give me that crap that killing plants is wrong. We do need to survive, even if that requieres killing some living things. The diference is that plants DO NOT suffer if they are killed, and animals do.

And who cares I'm part of a minory? What cares is that i know I'm doing the right thing, that I'm acting according to my principles, and that I'm at peace with myself. But if you feel you should ignore your conscience just because "everybody else eats meat", then who am I to tell you not to? It's your choice afterwards, it is you who eats corpses and cause suffering to innocent animals. But you know what? Before I became a semi-vegetarian, I loved steak. My favourite food was meat with spagethi and I had hot dogs and hamburgers everytime I could - But once I saw what i really was doing it was very easy to stop.
And you bet as soon as I'm 18 and an adult, I am going to tell my mom to go see if I'm in Asia with her stupid "you must eat fish" talk, I'll be a true vegetarian.

[hippiesoul]

Yay, that was long...

So that's what pocky is... Yes, they don't sell it in Portugal. =P

[mushroom]

If your first post has gotten me upset, this second one sure did make me more upset. Like ember, this is an issue I feel strong about, and I have more than many arguments to back my opinions.

Then I apologize for my words. I don't mean or want to offend anyone or invoke a war; I guess I posted too hastily, if I've managed to offend two people. Maybe my views *are* flawed. There are a lot of facts in favor of vegetarianism. Either way, I'll refrain from arguing the point any further.

I apologize again to anyone and everyone I offended.

[Lappi]

S'ok.

[hippiesoul]

Mushroom said:

Then I apologize for my words. I don't mean or want to offend anyone or invoke a war; I guess I posted too hastily, if I've managed to offend two people. Maybe my views *are* flawed. There are a lot of facts in favor of vegetarianism. Either way, I'll refrain from arguing the point any further.

I apologize again to anyone and everyone I offended.

Apologies taken. Please don't feel bad about my reaction. I answered your PM, please check it.

[oddhatter]

Okay, enough animal rights talk. This is about FOOD, not about what food should be.=)


- My opinion on YanYan...they DEFINITELY need more dip.

- I actually gave up eating sausage for a long time after visiting a sausage manufacturing plant in the Philippines. Somehow, I think their manufacturing process manual is Sinclair's "The Jungle".

[Patjade]

I knew that a topic called "Gross Food" was entirely subjective. I also guessed that the carnivorous/herbivorous/omnivorous posts may even show up. That was NOT the intent of this, though. It was SUPPOSED to be about STRANGE FOOD (according to your perceptions) that you have tried, and how you reacted to it.

I do not slight anyone's beliefs or feelings. I acknowledge they are all valid. I am, however, omnivorous. I like eating a variety of foods, and I have ENJOYED eating things I would never have considered if I had not TRIED them. AS I stated in the beginning, I will try almost ANYTHING once (as long as somebody, living, calls it food). Some I liked, some I didn't. I just wanted to share that experience with others and see how they handled a similar one.

I guess this thread has gotten to a point where it needs to be put to rest, as it has become a point of contention, rather than a subject of sharing our experiences with other.