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Post by Andrea on Mar 29, 2012 11:26:44 GMT -5
I really think that the Taco can be a place where derpy shenanigans can happen, but it's just still about common sense in bringing in Roughneck McGunfight if other people don't want to fight or have to be near a RP'd fight. I've had villains (mostly less serious ones) poke around the Taco in the past without fighting- the reason they don't more often is that I have less villain characters now and they don't really get randomly selected by dice that much.
The Tavern doesn't necessarily have to be a fight-only zone like the Arena, but it doesn't have to be an exact Taco clone. It's where you go to bring in a character that likes random street brawls or one who feels like trying out his magic death ray or something. Should you have someone go in there, that doesn't necessarily mean that you can't go to the regular Taco anymore.
Really, it's something like we can have two threads to please the group that doesn't want fighting and the group that does instead of going for a very carefully worded Truce that can't please every single person who will ever consciously decide to metaphorically step foot in the Icy Taco.
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Post by PFA on Mar 29, 2012 12:31:34 GMT -5
I'll be honest and admit I haven't posted here yet because debates/discussions/srs bsns in general intimidates me. I also haven't read all of the posts for the same reason. But beyond that, I'm also not really sure what to say. I really don't care what happens as long as people are happy with it. But I guess I really should offer my two cents as well.
I don't enjoy RP fights, for multiple reasons. One because I'm not good at writing them, never have been. Two because most of my characters are at best average at combat, and other characters are usually on a higher tier, so I always feel like I'm losing by default. Three because I don't want my characters to get hurt. So whenever there were RP fights going on on the Taco, I would do my best to avoid them. If necessary, I would leave and do something else for a while. Basically I didn't participate unless I felt a particular obligation to.
But it was never a problem until all the drama started. Drama between my friends is so thoroughly upsetting to me that with things as they are now, with the arguments over what should and shouldn't be allowed, I've been literally terrified of RP fights. If something even remotely fight-like starts on the Taco, I'm afraid of someone getting angry and a huge debate happening, as ridiculous as that may sound. And, if I may be perfectly honest, I've even found myself afraid of interacting with some people on the Taco (specifically on the Taco, mind, and not necessarily anywhere else) just because I'm afraid of fights starting up. This is especially upsetting to me because I don't want to be exclusive by any means. And yet here we are.
So... I don't know. I'd really just like the drama to go away and everyone to get along, but that's not really something I can just ask for. I don't think I can advocate two Tacos because, among other reasons like added confusion and activity levels, I feel like some people would treat it as a split regardless of what is said otherwise, and that would cause more tension than there already is. On the other hand, I don't really see a separate thread designated for random chaos as necessarily being a bad thing, as long as it's not treated as a separate chat altogether. (Like it could be called the "Random Chaos Thread!" or something. We could even call it non-canon if people prefer. /ideas)
As for serious fights and extended RPs and whatnot, I don't really see what's wrong with a little respect and common sense. If a fight breaks out between two characters and it starts dragging on, I don't really see what's wrong with taking it to PM/another thread. On the same token, if a fight breaks out between two characters and turns out to only last a few posts, I don't really see what's wrong with just leaving it be. *shrug* As for giant fights that force people to get involved whether they want to or not, well... I feel that's not a thing that should happen in the first place, but I don't see why the giant fights themselves can't be made into a mini-arc thread. Just as long as you don't try to force people into it.
But yeah, that's my... very long two cents. XD; Make of it what you will.
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Post by Omni on Mar 29, 2012 14:41:46 GMT -5
For the most part, I've given up on the Taco out of fear of upsetting or alienating people (finding out later in a small rant or through others, but rarely them directly to me). Yeah, another problem there seems to be is that people don't like to address the problems, and so they only persist. But that's a whole 'nother can of beans. Like Draco, I would really like to have a thread that's looser about the fights and crazy antics, and on which I/any characters I bring in could do something like blow up the moon. I think that such a thread would be a bit easier for newcomers to get into, as well. (Not so many unwritten rules - though that's a separate problem, really...) I'm not really sure that a villain-dedicated thread would solve the problem. The problem isn't just when the villains come in, really; any character could get into a fight, or accidentally set off a bunch of fireworks in the main Taco square, or something like that. Okay, I think I need to clarify something: I wasn't suggesting a more villian-ish thread (which wouldn't be dedicated to villains so much as mostly have them with some other rougher characters mixed in, from what I was picturing) as a solution so much as something fun to do on the side. ... Which come to think, probably means I should have brought it up in the main Taco thread or something rather than here. But anyway, the thing is that I really don't want to make another thread for people that like fighting in general. Again, I really think it would just further drive a wedge into what's already divided, rather than facilitating healing. The thing about a more non-hero thread is that I think it's pretty much guaranteed not to interfere with the thread where more good-ish characters already prefer to hang out (or at least not much). Also, while I don't mind the occasional bit of random chaos, I really don't want a second Taco full of it: I prefer more serious stuff. I figure after that, there's a good chance people would start suggesting a third thread for more-serious RP that supports fights among them. And would we have to not allow random chaos - like Bettyming's famous SCIENCE - to occur in the main Taco? Where does it stop? I wouldn't mind a side thread so long as it's a side thread. No, you don't have to join in the main thread along with - that's your choice - but I really don't want to have specified areas for each type of general RP. Like Stal said, the 'bloids have undergone many different evolutions over the years. Why not let Taco do the same thing? I don't mind evolution. But the way I see it, more threads for different types of main RP is more likely to cause de-evolution into a bunch of small factions that don't want much to do with each-other. Like PFA said, I'd prefer that we be able to take things in stride and let it all mesh together (or at least mostly mesh together and cut off extra when reasonable).
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Post by Andrea on Mar 29, 2012 15:20:51 GMT -5
Also, while I don't mind the occasional bit of random chaos, I really don't want a second Taco full of it: I prefer more serious stuff. I figure after that, there's a good chance people would start suggesting a third thread for more-serious RP that supports fights among them. And would we have to not allow random chaos - like Bettyming's famous SCIENCE - to occur in the main Taco? Where does it stop?
I wouldn't mind a side thread so long as it's a side thread. No, you don't have to join in the main thread along with - that's your choice - but I really don't want to have specified areas for each type of general RP. Did anyone say that's what would happen...? It really feels like you're just jumping to conclusions on that. No, creating a thread for every type of RP is not a good idea, but let me first reply to something you said specifically: I think that many on this thread have agreed that the best policy to a new "Truce" is to use some common sense. Is SCIENCE going to make someone run off the thread sobbing? No, probably not. But bringing in, hypothetically, a giant death robot that would crush buildings will upset some. There can be no rigid boundaries, like "well according to this specific part of the agreement, you can't use a syringe blah blah blah". If I voiced it wrongly, I'm saying that this could be more of a place to bring in characters where you wouldn't normally at the regular Taco. For example, you can bring in a serious character that might start fighting a lot of people there... But you can bring in a derpy chaotic character to either if you so choose. It's just that you'll have to be the one who makes the call on if the character will upset a Tacoer in the Taco. I'm also using the term "regular Taco" and I don't mean that we need two full-size Tacos, I think just Taco Tavern or whatever can be enough of a side thread. Meanwhile, serious discussions haven't been outlawed at the Taco. If one wants to have some serious/tense talk, that's fine, but if it grows into a roleplay, it's really only polite to move it. If it'll be a fight that one knows will only take a few posts, it would be best to move it to Taco Tavern just to be on the safe side.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 15:48:35 GMT -5
Yeah, another problem there seems to be is that people don't like to address the problems, and so they only persist. But that's a whole 'nother can of beans. I think we've already said why it's difficult to address the problems. For one thing, it's uncomfortable. The differences cause a feeling of tension and conflict, even if people are playing nice while they discuss. It's made a lot worse when things get derailed. We've also tried to address the problem before several times, each time being very frustrating. In addition, it's not easy to address just on a technical level. This is not something for the main thread because it's housekeeping issues. It's not for PM because it involves more than two people. So it needed to be a public thread. There was also the problem that up until now, we haven't had any official sanction from Mods to address the tension itself. I for one didn't feel safe expressing my frustrations until they came out and said it would be okay. Personally I think that this discussion is going better and has been more productive than the ones in the past. Okay, I think I need to clarify something: I wasn't suggesting a more villian-ish thread (which wouldn't be dedicated to villains so much as mostly have them with some other rougher characters mixed in, from what I was picturing) as a solution so much as something fun to do on the side. I rather got that impression, which is why it felt a little out of place. As far as I know, though, you don't need permission to start a side thread or Mini-Arc…? You can go ahead with it if you like. But anyway, the thing is that I really don't want to make another thread for people that like fighting in general. I wasn't too keen on that idea at first either, but now I'm not as against it. Several people here have already voiced support of it (Draco, Terra). I'd keep it in mind as a possible option. I figure after that, there's a good chance people would start suggesting a third thread for more-serious RP that supports fights among them. And would we have to not allow random chaos - like Bettyming's famous SCIENCE - to occur in the main Taco? Where does it stop? This is where common sense comes in. More serious RPs that support fights tend to be more along the lines of mini-arcs anyway. Just from an organizational standpoint those wouldn't really fit in a casual setting; they'd work better in PMs or their own threads. Random chaos is not something we're against. Bettyscience tends to be hilarious, and at worst a character will get a bit humiliated for a limited amount of time. I don't see this as a relevant issue.
I think I should clarify something. And that is the issue of "chaos" and "fighting". While we can't define it exactly as to what is and isn't allowed, here is a summary of some of the things related to those two topics that people have stated make them uncomfortable and why. Apologies for redundancies. Say, hypothetically, you're talking to your friend, and there's a man standing nearby. Another man walks up and starts beating the first man to death with a chair out of nowhere. No sane person stands there and completely ignores it. People will get dragged, unwillingly, into the fight, somehow. And it will be uncomfortable for everybody. -*-*- What happened was that we got serious about our characters. As they became less of tools of writing and more of real people that we cared about, it stopped being funny when they got stabbed and died horribly on the sidewalk. It was tragic. So the Truce had to be invented to stop this. So were other ideas tossed out- Peaceful Day, for example, much earlier. What happened was that as people became serious about their characters, the Taco changed, and the RPs themselves changed now, too. Abolishing the Truce completely won't bring it back to what it was, because our attitudes have shifted, and even the random attacks and fights now aren't the fun ones they used to be. […]Not every character will be chanting for encouraging a fight, right? It's not even as easy as just forcing a character to enjoy it, because the more realistic they are, the more difficult that sounds. The thing is that the Taco can be a derpy place, but that doesn't mean seriousness is outlawed. Some characters that are treated seriously, almost real by their writers just to make them more defined and better-written, will not show up if there's monsters duking it out every day because they will not feel safe, and the Writer does not want them even around it (i.e. 6 year old girl has to witness two men murdering each other) or because it's impossible to be IC and not react to the fight in some way, now. And, to add your other point onto this... I believe that we did get more serious about our characters, or did start treating them more like real people, because there's a reason why I believe some may have agreed with the Truce, because then their characters will come out of the Taco with all their limbs. We don't like the argument over semantics. We don't like the fights (either physical OR characters arguing philosophy) that start up and carry on in the middle of the main thread when no one else wants it. I'm just going to say that I agree with everything Drew and Torkie have said. I'd say more, but it would be redundant and I don't feel like debating right now. I would feel a little nervous about RPing if the Taco was a war zone, because I don't want to somehow be dragged into a fight that I didn't agree to participating in. :/ tl;dr: The IC Chat is being hindered not only when there's too much OOC posting, but also when more extensive Roleplays get in the way of people who just want to have some regular character interaction. But there are some fights that are very long. Fights that you know won't take so long are okay, I think- even an incredibly silly fight will be tiring for some if it takes two months to complete. Then there are fights that force involvement from others. If a giant death robot blows up half the square and sets skyscrapers on fire, then nobody really stands there and doesn't react. I don't enjoy RP fights, for multiple reasons. One because I'm not good at writing them, never have been. Two because most of my characters are at best average at combat, and other characters are usually on a higher tier, so I always feel like I'm losing by default. Three because I don't want my characters to get hurt. So whenever there were RP fights going on on the Taco, I would do my best to avoid them. If necessary, I would leave and do something else for a while. Basically I didn't participate unless I felt a particular obligation to.
Here are the things people have stated as examples as to what they are okay with or have seen to work out in the past. The other day, I watched a robot duel a giant sandwich, and I didn't necessarily see any problem with that. I also don't see any problem with Character A slapping Character B for being stupid and then it's just a little implied slapfight going on. I'll stress that obviously the first duel (robot vs sandwich) was basically entirely silly and hammy, and didn't last very long, and I don't think there's any problem with fights like that. No one else has said much on this topic, so I'll just say for the record something I told Zylaa a while ago; It's not easy to explain, but basically if it's something humorous or not going to result in trauma, chances are people will be okay with it. It varies from person to person, though.
Also a reminder of something that has been stated not to be debatable: Extended discussions or general chat, going on for more than just a few posts, do not belong on the Taco chat threads, just from a purely organizational standpoint. Again, this does not mean a few back-and-forth posts about how your day's gone, or some funny picture you found, etc. I am referring to long discussions about a specific subject, such as today's talk about copyrights and fair use. That is something that far better fits on Discussions & Debates, or PM. If it's more of a general chat topic that still is lasting longer than a few posts, then it probably belongs on the Bloids. I know there is this seeming divide between the Taco and the Bloids, but every Tacoer is welcome with open arms on the Bloids, regardless of what you may feel currently. This isn't really something that's up for debate, but a point of moderation that we've had to step in a couple of times to remind people of. It's a matter of keeping boards on the topic they're meant for, in other words. When you notice you're writing textwalls of debate for whatever reason, that's a signifier that it probably needs to be transferred to one of the other locations I mentioned.
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Post by Omni on Mar 29, 2012 16:22:19 GMT -5
Personally I think that this discussion is going better and has been more productive than the ones in the past. Agreed. People are actually talking now. Granted, we seem to be going back-and-forth as to whether we actually get a solution, but it's still definitely a step in the right direction? I rather got that impression, which is why it felt a little out of place. As far as I know, though, you don't need permission to start a side thread or Mini-Arc…? You can go ahead with it if you like. I just wanted to bounce it off other people's heads. But yeah, again, wrong place, and I guess I could just see if other people would join in. (if I can think of some character to start with... Hmm...) This is where common sense comes in. More serious RPs that support fights tend to be more along the lines of mini-arcs anyway. Just from an organizational standpoint those wouldn't really fit in a casual setting; they'd work better in PMs or their own threads. Just bear in mind to not make a blanket rule: I've seen things that end up being occasional bursts more than anything continuous. Bursts don't work too well brought to the side. Again: The six posts thing. Random chaos is not something we're against. Bettyscience tends to be hilarious, and at worst a character will get a bit humiliated for a limited amount of time. I don't see this as a relevant issue. Which is why I'm now wondering why we'd need something for random chaos. My mind's getting a bit mixed up here. I think I should clarify something. And that is the issue of "chaos" and "fighting". While we can't define it exactly as to what is and isn't allowed, here is a summary of some of the things related to those two topics that people have stated make them uncomfortable and why. Apologies for redundancies. Is this directed toward me, or toward people in general? Either way, while we're on the subject of discomfort, I think I'll mention what I, personally, find uncomfortable: People trying to interrupt something small, and ending up making it worse, and thus little things basically ending up being a big deal, and all that entails. I guess you could say it's one thing when we invite, another thing when someone puts themselves in and makes something bigger than it was meant to be. I still think we need to at least let little things be, and mix in.
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Post by Andrea on Mar 29, 2012 16:36:05 GMT -5
Which is why I'm now wondering why we'd need something for random chaos. My mind's getting a bit mixed up here. That's not what it would be for, Omni.
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Post by Draco on Mar 29, 2012 17:08:34 GMT -5
The way I see it if there was another Taco thread made, it's like a MMO. Some have the normal servers and then have the PK servers. One you go undisturbed by others, while in the other you are open to attack by other players, towns may have enemies, or you are open to challenge (really depends on games). If another Taco thread was created it would be like Taco PK. Where the same thing in the Taco can happen, but a bomb can roll down the street or in a building at the same time. A friendly chat can be going on, then another group can start some fight or disturbance, and the two talkers can ignore what's going on around them and continue or join in (Not everyone can ignore stuff going on around them, but I know I can, and pretty sure others can).
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Post by Dan on Mar 29, 2012 17:21:39 GMT -5
Well, I have a somewhat relevant question that could address where some of the problem is coming from. And this isn't to make a point; I am legitimately asking if this has been done before: Has anyone asked politely for someone to move their current RPing elsewhere if it's becoming too big/problematic for the main Taco?
Again, not trying to be condescending or anything, I just want to see if there have been past examples and how well they have gone over. I know it's sort of an obvious thing to ask, but I just wonder if people are getting too caught up in avoiding conflict and being afraid to offend someone that something as simple as just asking is being overlooked as a solution.
What I don't mean is 1) demanding that a RP be taken elsewhere, as that causes more conflict, as well as being backseat modding, or 2) becoming passive-aggressive to declare your frustrations subtly, which can be unclear and cause more friction.
But keeping calm and requesting that someone take it elsewhere because it's making you uncomfortable, or becoming too overbearing for the main thread, or any other reasonable justification for the request... I think that would go over well. Often people are just unaware of what is bothering other people, especially online when we're not privy to other people's body language. You guys are all friendly; I don't believe that any one of you would deliberately carry on with something if you knew it was making other people upset.
Again, such a request would be just that: you are asking someone to move it elsewhere, and they would not be required to comply if they believed it fit reasonably within the Taco's realm to carry on there. But I don't think that this sort of disagreement would crop up that much, and as long as both sides remain calm it would be much easier to avoid the sort of anger that flared up in the past.
So has this tactic been used before? If so, have people been generally receptive to it? And if not, perhaps it would be a useful and easy method to keep things running smoothly.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 17:57:03 GMT -5
The way I see it if there was another Taco thread made, it's like a MMO. Some have the normal servers and then have the PK servers. One you go undisturbed by others, while in the other you are open to attack by other players, towns may have enemies, or you are open to challenge (really depends on games). If another Taco thread was created it would be like Taco PK. Where the same thing in the Taco can happen, but a bomb can roll down the street or in a building at the same time. A friendly chat can be going on, then another group can start some fight or disturbance, and the two talkers can ignore what's going on around them and continue or join in (Not everyone can ignore stuff going on around them, but I know I can, and pretty sure others can). …A PK server. You know, I like that analogy. That's a good analogy, Draco. It provides a clearer way to think about it. Well, I have a somewhat relevant question that could address where some of the problem is coming from. And this isn't to make a point; I am legitimately asking if this has been done before: Has anyone asked politely for someone to move their current RPing elsewhere if it's becoming too big/problematic for the main Taco? I remember when Flight of the Yatagarasu started becoming a big thing. We collectively decided to move it into its own thread, I think. There was a recent robot conflict with no specific name that was a point of uneasiness for quite some time before someone spoke up. I don't really remember who sent the PMs, though. I do remember people not wanting to be the one to ask it to move, for various reasons. People are actually talking now. Granted, we seem to be going back-and-forth as to whether we actually get a solution, but it's still definitely a step in the right direction? I don't see us near the solution stage yet. The reason we're going back-and-forth, as you say, is because there are differing views on the matter and there seem to be a few problems in conveying what points are trying to be made. Is this directed toward me, or toward people in general? …Uh. If I was directing it at you alone, I would not have separated it out from my responses to your post. It was for everyone to see. If I have something personal to say, I try to say it privately. It's more polite that way. Just bear in mind to not make a blanket rule: I've seen things that end up being occasional bursts more than anything continuous. Bursts don't work too well brought to the side. Again: The six posts thing. I, personally, find uncomfortable: People trying to interrupt something small, and ending up making it worse, and thus little things basically ending up being a big deal, and all that entails. I guess you could say it's one thing when we invite, another thing when someone puts themselves in and makes something bigger than it was meant to be. I still think we need to at least let little things be, and mix in. I can't think of a single instance where someone has gotten mad at something small. Can you please gather some examples where it hasn't lasted more than the equivalent of one page (15 posts)? You've used this example before, but I honestly can't think of a single occurrence recently where that has been the case. We've already kind of reached the idea of "use common sense" and not to snarl at things that don't last long. Let me quote something. Any single continuing thing I've seen on the Icy Taco recently has been longer than 6 posts, if I can say that without sounding incredibly accusatory. If it's not going to take more than that, then making a note to avoid some miscommunication is a wonderful idea. So maybe six posts isn't the magic number. That's awfully small, really. But 40+ posts between two people is definitely starting to get a bit crowded. More than 60 is really running into a mini-arc. (That would be four consecutive pages of nothing but a single arc, and if other people were trying to talk in between that, it would be even longer.) Does that make sense? Which is why I'm now wondering why we'd need something for random chaos. My mind's getting a bit mixed up here. You're confusing me as well. If it helps at all, I'd think of it in terms of Draco's analogy to a PK server.
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Post by Andrea on Mar 29, 2012 18:18:30 GMT -5
The way I see it if there was another Taco thread made, it's like a MMO. Some have the normal servers and then have the PK servers. One you go undisturbed by others, while in the other you are open to attack by other players, towns may have enemies, or you are open to challenge (really depends on games). If another Taco thread was created it would be like Taco PK. Where the same thing in the Taco can happen, but a bomb can roll down the street or in a building at the same time. A friendly chat can be going on, then another group can start some fight or disturbance, and the two talkers can ignore what's going on around them and continue or join in (Not everyone can ignore stuff going on around them, but I know I can, and pretty sure others can). …A PK server. You know, I like that analogy. That's a good analogy, Draco. It provides a clearer way to think about it. Actually, I really like it also. *slightly off-topic with that* Though I know that people don't like the idea still. If it were kept from being a full "Split" and were treated more as a side thread- a PK server- would that be acceptable? I know that one of the reasons for opposing the idea was that it might wedge the two groups, but this really shouldn't wedge any groups more than creating the Arena did. So has this tactic been used before? If so, have people been generally receptive to it? And if not, perhaps it would be a useful and easy method to keep things running smoothly. As far as I know, it can create several misunderstandings. Sometimes the RPers who have a continuing RP in the main Taco board don't exactly realize how much its grown, and asking them to move it creates a minor argument. I also know that there was a sort of passive-aggressive statement going around about how people would complain if the Taco was active and if it was inactive. Nobody complains about activity, but that came up because of asking roleplays to be moved, I believe. Also... There's a lot of info in the first post of the Taco already- it's sort of overwhelming. To also prevent anything that sounds like an unwritten rule (because not every new Tacoer will have read this) and to prevent the first post from being missed, don't we need a new thread to detail rules (basically the rules of the 'Bloids about being polite) as well as what we mostly agree upon for the "new Truce"/ pink flying magic potato/"just use common sense"?
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Post by Zylaa on Mar 29, 2012 20:17:41 GMT -5
Chiming in on the idea of a separate thread with my own example, which may or may not be helpful. ^_^
Way back when the first Guild Wars happened, I, as a very non-serious roleplayer at the time, started an "Informal Guild Wars" thread, where people didn't have to stick within the limits of the plot and their personas. People could be sillier, and it was entirely non-canon. That thread was always more of a side thread, and didn't impact the activity of the actual Guild Wars thread at all. Some people stayed on the Informal thread, some people never visited the Informal thread, some people used the Informal thread to perform attacks they wished they could perform in Guild canon, I at least ended up moving from the Informal thread to actively participate in Guild Wars as well, and so on.
Although the functions of the threads differed from the ones you're proposing here, I just wanted to mention it as an example of how partitioning activities onto different threads can really work. Informal was never as active as GW, and eventually petered out, but it was something people (read: me) wanted and couldn't get on the existing main thread. Since it seems like there's interest in a thread for fighter-type characters, and definite interest for the serious fights to move off the main Taco chat, I'd be willing to bet the separate thread could coexist with the Taco very easily. It didn't create any sort of division in the Guilds, and I don't think it has to here.
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Post by Omni on Mar 30, 2012 3:08:40 GMT -5
The way I see it if there was another Taco thread made, it's like a MMO. Some have the normal servers and then have the PK servers. One you go undisturbed by others, while in the other you are open to attack by other players, towns may have enemies, or you are open to challenge (really depends on games). If another Taco thread was created it would be like Taco PK. Where the same thing in the Taco can happen, but a bomb can roll down the street or in a building at the same time. A friendly chat can be going on, then another group can start some fight or disturbance, and the two talkers can ignore what's going on around them and continue or join in (Not everyone can ignore stuff going on around them, but I know I can, and pretty sure others can). I dunno. MMOs tend to have a ton of players - so much that they need a number of servers anyway - and it's pretty hard for even a fairly low (but measurable with maybe only one decimal place) percentage of the players to get to know each-other personally. I'm thinking the Taco should be closer to a close-knit guild, not the whole of the players. Which is why I'm now wondering why we'd need something for random chaos. My mind's getting a bit mixed up here. That's not what it would be for, Omni. So is the SCIENCE random craziness, or not? And then there was the time the Taco was in a giant stomach. Well, I have a somewhat relevant question that could address where some of the problem is coming from. And this isn't to make a point; I am legitimately asking if this has been done before: Has anyone asked politely for someone to move their current RPing elsewhere if it's becoming too big/problematic for the main Taco? Generally speaking, not that often, from what I understand. </definite answer> …Uh. If I was directing it at you alone, I would not have separated it out from my responses to your post. It was for everyone to see. In that case, the reason I put in my discomforts is to add in my voice, to help complete the list a bit more. I can't think of a single instance where someone has gotten mad at something small. Can you please gather some examples where it hasn't lasted more than the equivalent of one page (15 posts)? You've used this example before, but I honestly can't think of a single occurrence recently where that has been the case. Hoo boy... There's one case in particular that stands out in my mind, though it may take awhile to find. It's late, too, so you may have to wait on that. Way back when the first Guild Wars happened, I, as a very non-serious roleplayer at the time, started an "Informal Guild Wars" thread, where people didn't have to stick within the limits of the plot and their personas. People could be sillier, and it was entirely non-canon. That thread was always more of a side thread, and didn't impact the activity of the actual Guild Wars thread at all. Some people stayed on the Informal thread, some people never visited the Informal thread, some people used the Informal thread to perform attacks they wished they could perform in Guild canon, I at least ended up moving from the Informal thread to actively participate in Guild Wars as well, and so on. Although the functions of the threads differed from the ones you're proposing here, I just wanted to mention it as an example of how partitioning activities onto different threads can really work. Informal was never as active as GW, and eventually petered out, but it was something people (read: me) wanted and couldn't get on the existing main thread. Since it seems like there's interest in a thread for fighter-type characters, and definite interest for the serious fights to move off the main Taco chat, I'd be willing to bet the separate thread could coexist with the Taco very easily. It didn't create any sort of division in the Guilds, and I don't think it has to here. Eh... It's one thing if we're actually talking about an informal side-thread, though I really do feel that splitting into 'fighting' and 'non-fighting' would be something different, and wouldn't fit with your GW example. The informal GW is more of a 'play this silly mini-game on the side' thing. The 'fighting allowed/not allowed' seems to me more like a 'we're putting up a boundary that you are not allowed to bring _____ into' thing, and much more serious. Like two different cities where the laws are different, and accidentally breaking the law in one of them would have pretty serious consequences. Granted, there are possibilities, but I really think we should just try smoothing things out before making a separate thread. We haven't even tried seeing if trying again on the main thread would be successful. Let's at least leave the more-dramatic measures for if the simpler stuff doesn't work. If just getting along in the main thread doesn't work, we could always make a split later. If we split now, it might be harder to try just getting along later.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2012 9:44:41 GMT -5
So is the SCIENCE random craziness, or not? And then there was the time the Taco was in a giant stomach. Once again, you're confusing me, and I feel like that is getting off topic. Again I quote: Random chaos is not something we're against. Bettyscience tends to be hilarious, and at worst a character will get a bit humiliated for a limited amount of time. I don't see this as a relevant issue. It's not easy to explain, but basically if it's something humorous or not going to result in trauma, chances are people will be okay with it. It varies from person to person, though. Now is it a bit more clear? Hoo boy... There's one case in particular that stands out in my mind, though it may take awhile to find. It's late, too, so you may have to wait on that. One instance? That's it? …One data point doth not a confirmation to a theory, hypothesis, or argument make. But please, do link us to it when you find it. Granted, there are possibilities, but I really think we should just try smoothing things out before making a separate thread. We haven't even tried seeing if trying again on the main thread would be successful. Let's at least leave the more-dramatic measures for if the simpler stuff doesn't work. If just getting along in the main thread doesn't work, we could always make a split later. If we split now, it might be harder to try just getting along later. Please reference the post I made that lists the number of people who have problems with fights and/or extensive debates taking place on the main thread. I really don't think it's going to work trying to allow it back in. People have voiced support of a sort of "PK server", if you would. Draco and Terra for starters. I can think of at least two to five others that might be interested if it were put up. That's a possibility of seven people. That's plenty of activity. I don't see why we shouldn't give this careful consideration as a possible serious solution. I for one wouldn't feel any ill will if this side thread were made. I certainly wouldn't join in now, but that's just because it doesn't really fit the kind of writing I enjoy. But later on, as my tastes develop and change? Sure, why not?
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Post by Stal on Mar 30, 2012 10:31:10 GMT -5
I was certain I made the PVP server argument. Maybe that was when I was explaining my idea to someone before I suggested it. XD but yes, that's precisely what the aim should be.
Omni, I'll be honest with you. I think perhaps that what you want isn't possible. It seems that what you want just isn't possible. What some people find fun is exactly the thing that others don't find fun. And by restricting a thread to what is and isn't allowed, there's a group that will get alienated and not have as much fun as they want. A truce or signed agreement is just not going to work in this case.
With diametrically opposing views, there's not a solution that can leave both sides happy in the same area. The best is to set up designated locales. The tavern and the coffee shop. One is a little rowdier and anything goes, the other a bit more civil and even if it has random chaos, it's not the sort that would get out of control and bug people.
Right now you're the only one I can see actively arguing against it. Now you're welcome to continue going around in circles and discuss the merits for it or against it. But in this case, I think the actual dragging out the debate is starting to bring up other frustrations among the Tacoers. Everyone is aware of your position on it, but is there any harm in trying it? Just giving it a shot and see how it goes? While this is an entirely different circumstance than the bloid/Taco split, see how Taco has really taken off since spinning it out into its own thing?
And honestly this is simply a proposed solution to help everyone find what they want. No one has to wait for a full decision to decide to set it up. Someone can take the initiative, set up the thread, and see how things go.
But the question I have is this... Are people's role playing philosophies (and what they enjoy or don't enjoy personally) really the underlying issues here? I don't think it is. What is it that really tends to get people sniping at each other in this group? What is it that is making such an undercurrent of emotions and annoyances? I really think those are the issues that need to start being focused on.
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