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Post by Pacmanite on Jun 26, 2011 23:20:53 GMT -5
Whoa that gave me a fright even though I had my sound turned off! xDDD   Yay! |
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Post by Pacmanite on Jun 26, 2011 8:51:24 GMT -5
I did a little drawing of Ratramnus cause he's cool like that. He's probably way older than he looks and would probably be wearing something more accurate to his time period, but then I don't have a clue what a frankish monk of the ninth century would really wear, except maybe generic brown robes.   I imagine that if he ever met a Cynocephalus, they'd get along pretty well.  And here's more translation! I have now finished page 1 of 2, but page 2 is longer and has a number of spotty smudges over some of the latin words, and on one edge the letters are all crammed together. But it'll be enjoyable to translate anyway. <3 ----------------------------------------- Jam vero agros colere, terram proscindere, sementem rurali fenori concredere, artis peritiam demonstrat. Quae res nisi ratione praeditis haudquaquam favere cognoscitur.
“Truly, now, [your letter] shows that they cultivate fields, plough the earth, and sow seeds in the countryside to gain profit, and that they are skilled in craft. These traits would be completely unknown if [the Cynocephali] were not endowed with a reasoning mind to support them. I’m not completely sure what the implied subject of “demonstrat” (he/she/it shows) would be; at one point I thought maybe the verb should have been a plural and the subject would be the Cynocephali, i.e. “they show that they cultivate...” but then I thought I should probably stick with the text I’ve got. In which case, the “it” would most likely be the letter that Rimbert sent containing all the info about the Cynocephali. I had to squirm around a bit with a negative phrase. “Haudquaquam... cognoscitur” strictly means “be not at all known”, and I rendered it as “completely unknown”. Etenim rationis est causam requirere singularum actionum, ubi causa: quae res pingues efficiat terras, quae causa sementis ubertatem producat; quarum sine scientia agricultura nunquam digne poterit exerceri.
“And as a matter of fact, it is reasonable to look for the purpose of a single action, where there is a purpose: What is it that makes the soil fertile? Why did it yield an abundance of seed? Without the agricultural knowledge of these things, could never be cultivated. Farming is not an unconscious process, and Ratramnus therefore believes that creatures who farm must have some idea of what they’re doing, and even some kind of urge to inquire what brings success. I took the longer phrase “quae causa... producat” (lit. “with what cause did it yield...?”) and smoothed it into a simpler phrase “why did it yield...?”. Again there’s confusion about the implied subject of a verb, “exerceri”, but at least it’s kind of obvious what he means even if the subject could be “field” or “soil” or whatever. Porro tegumenta nosse conficere, vel pelle, vel lana linoque, studium est rationalis animae.
“Moreover, they have the diligence of a rational mind to know how to make clothing from either hide or wool and linen. One last sentence before I finish up tonight. The phrase “vel pelle, vel lana linoque” uses a combination of “and” and “or” which comes out looking a bit weird in English; literally “either hide, or wool and linen”. I could translate it as “hide, wool or linen” but then I’d lose the sort of contrast between the materials of hide on one hand and wool and linen on the other. I left my translation fairly literal, but I wonder if there’s a nicer way to phrase it...
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Post by Pacmanite on Jun 25, 2011 20:51:39 GMT -5
She has done the idea of a "game" you have to play through in order to get bits of notes about her characters, albeit on a smaller scale. If you go to her official website, and click the "accessibility enabled version" button, then find the mobile phone and dial in 62442 (the number Harry used to get into the Ministry of Magic in book 5) then you can unlock a very early page of a draft from the Philosophers Stone (in which Harry's parents stole the Philosopher's Stone from Flamel). There are a lot of other easter eggs on that site too, but I can't remember them right now. So it would kinda make sense if she did the same kind of interactive thing for the new Pottermore website. |
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Post by Pacmanite on Jun 25, 2011 20:25:30 GMT -5
Comic Reviews! Ring of the Deep, part 7 ssjelitegirlxD I love how you characterised the faeries in this series. Fyora and the Healing-Springs-faerie made for such an interesting pair. And the springs-faerie's anger in this comic feels so convincing as a result of your previous comic. It was a great series all round =D Musings: Edition 500 by _rascalz_The lineart was very smooth and pretty, and your colours are balanced and nicely done too. I feel sorry for that poor innocent little issue 500 of the NT though... Pun Police by dragonstorm_75xD The last shot of the white weewoo putting on his sunglasses was brilliant! The action lines on the falling block were a little odd in that they went behind the Draik before landing on the table... other than that the art was very well done and pretty. Techopalooza: Petpet Troubles, Part 1 by desert_gp_dragon2oo5Gnaaarggg why do you have to draw such good art? The brushstrokes in the background are gorgeous, and the golden tint is so theme-appropiate. Poor Ke, I bet he'll regret buying so many of those Tomamus before long... and I look forward to seeing more of this series! My Little Monster 4/6 by djudju22_8Uh-oh, looks like "Albeever's" masterful disguise has been compromised I like the art and even despite being a monster, your mutant Acara looks real cute as well. Talk About Random by buizelmaniacxD Is it sad that even though I've fallen out of reading the NT regularly, I can recognise about 90% of all those pets? You did a great job on the art in this comic and WHOO Blindside Boy is there too! =D And I loved the punchline, and how the fangirl rampage was not drawn but only described with dreadful anticipation. Boulder Box by snackboxI love your character expressions, they make the comic come alive. (This comic sure isn't missing your best effort! ) And aww... too bad the tyrannian kacheek didn't have enough begging and bwahahas... Furs Place - Weewoes by pichu_pikachu_raichuB'awww, that's a cute joke. And I really like your bright colours, they fit in with the innocent and cute feel of the comic. For Lack of a Better Idea - 3 of 4 by saro_the_legendaerieOooh montage! xD The art is amazing, and the second last panel was especially really well done! It's so pretty how the wave of inspiration makes all the random blobs of forest-coloured background colours turn into fully formed and beautifully detailed trees and vines. And the direct referencing of fourth wall breakage is really entertaining to watch in this comic series. Incoming Tax by elyk442I love your pixelart! It's been so long since I've seen nice pixelart and this is a really awesome use of the style. And the punchline with the banking skeith... eheh. That would just make so much sense. A Nerd, a Dork, and a Geek by almightywebmistressWow, you seem to grow up as you read more and more of the NT... that's really cute, actually. And the little details you put into each successive panel really makes this a nice comic. I also really like your pastel-y colour scheme. The floating Islanders - NT 500 by yankeesrule244444456xD Disaster was created and then just as quickly averted. And your monster cake looks so yummy I'd probably eat half of it by myself! Amikarashui 500th NT Special by bluecloud300Lol how could something so small and white and cute ever threaten Anveda, the big scary darigan cybunny? I love the way you wrote his dialogue, it really lets his personality shine. And the weewoo and the little origami cybunny were so adorable! Neopian Anomaly by lizica166That was EPIC! A song for the 500th issue, who would have thought of that? And all your crossover appearances were so well drawn even though you had so many to put in! (Also, Blindside Boy is in there too. Yay!) It feels so natural that this is the kind of song everyone would spontaneously appear for and dance to. A Neo Look: at Reaching 500 by jewelia52Heh heh, the greedy zafara! Your art looks really awesome, the lines are so smooth and dynamic. And I love how your poppit is in such a bright friendly colour that he pops right out at you. Also, is that hand lettering? If it is, then you did an awesome job on that too! Chance of Rain - 500x by mizumewxD They look so dead in the last panel! Just barely managing to roll the ball between each other. Your art is really beautiful and your characters' expressions are so appropriate and energetic. I also really like your character designs. =D Team Squad Force: One of those times by lachtaubeI already commented before, but your art is so nice and I love the way you played with a green and brown woodsy-kind of colour palette. <3 Team Squad Force: Makeover Edition! by ghostkomorichuI already said it, but it bears repeating: Awesome joke, and awesome comic. You did so much drawing! But even though the comic is so long, the pacing still feels just right. Team Squad Force: Feelin' the Heat! by fish_puddleWhile this is no longer the first time I've seen it, you still made me laugh. Heir Horrible is a really fun villain to watch while the puns roll by! |
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Post by Pacmanite on Jun 25, 2011 10:42:37 GMT -5
I LOVE the background! It's so awesome and fitting and nicely drawn! Congrats to everyone who got in too!
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Post by Pacmanite on Jun 25, 2011 10:24:40 GMT -5
Thank you so much for letting me take part. <3 I was a little anxious of sounding whiny when I kept bringing up uni work, but I'm really happy to have had the opportunity to work with you all. And it was outrageously fun to draw your characters in their supersuits. This was such an awesome thing to do for issue 500, and it's so great we're all getting so much positive feedback on our collab. It was a really special thing to do for a really special issue, so I thank you. ;D
And if it weren't for you I probably wouldn't be able to get something so nice done up for the big awesome 500th issue. I liked having to push myself to meet those wonderfully high standards you've set and maintained since the very first TSF. You all did a stellar job.
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Post by Pacmanite on Jun 24, 2011 19:52:05 GMT -5
I'll get around to reviewing the comics, but for the moment:
Deadline by tashni
Whoa, whoa whoa... That story was awesome. I don't normally read the stories in the NT, but yours got me hooked and I couldn't stop reading before I could get to the bottom of why there was such a hubbub over the sudden appearance of an article about Poogles. And that was a seriously freaky ending. I love it.
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Post by Pacmanite on Jun 24, 2011 8:36:07 GMT -5
Ooh ooh! It looks like we're going to get more background notes from Jo Rowling out of this thing!
It's a little odd that registration won't be open yet for several months. But I don't know what sort of site building process it might be in the middle of, so I guess I can only wait and see. =D
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Post by Pacmanite on Jun 23, 2011 9:21:44 GMT -5
Here's some more of the translation, and the case is looking better for the Cynocephali's personhood. My rough draft is now over a third of the way through the letter, but some of the sentences further on have me scratching my head. I'm not a huge fan of the gerundive construction. --------------------------------------
Verum quo litterae a vestra charitate nobis directae, dum naturam illorum diligentius significarunt, nonnulla docuerint quae humanae rationi potius quam bestiali sensibilitati convenire videntur:
“Truly, from those letters you kindly sent us, while they studiously reported the nature of these [Cynocephali], they indicate several things which seem to agree that they have the reasoning mind of a human, rather than the sensibilities of a beast:
I’m not happy with the tense of “docuerint” (translated “indicate”)... it seems to be future perfect, but why would a letter not be “showing” these things in the present? Maybe it kind of makes sense in the Latin, where the tense likes to jump around a bit, but in English it seems more properly said in the present.
Scilicet quod societatis quaedam jura custodiant, quod villarum cohabitatio testificatur; quod agri culturam exercent, quod et frugum messione colligitur; quod verenda non bestiarum more detegant, sed humana velent verecundia, quae res pudoris est indicium; quod in usu tegminis, non solum pelles, verum etiam et vestes eos habere scripsistis: haec enim omnia rationalem quadammodo testificari videntur eis inesse animam.
“Evidently they uphold the laws of their society; they are said to live together in houses; they practice agriculture, and harvest crops; they show that they respect customs which are not beastly by clothing themselves with human-like modesty, and this is evidence for their sense of shame; they don’t just use hides for garments, but you even wrote that they have cloth. Now, in a way, all these things seem to testify that a rational mind is present within them.
Ratramnus is an attentive man. For him, even just wearing clothes seems to imply quite a lot. Lucky for me the Latin was easy in this section here. Nam cum dicatur civitas esse coetus hominum eodem sub jure pariter degentium, istique simul cohabitare per villarum contubernia dicantur, civitatis distinctio talibus convenire non abs re creditur.
“For since a civil society may be described as the unification of degenerate people equally under the same law, and since these [Cynocephali] are said to live together with each other in communal houses, I believe the distinguishing factor of civility fits in helpfully with such [creatures]. “civitas” is a hard word to translate because in Latin it’s such a political/ideological sort of term. Most often it’s translated as “citizenship” or “community”; I’ve settled on “civil society” and “civility” for now. “Degenerate” looks a little out of place, but it makes sense in the context of Christian theology: all humans have inherited Adam’s sin, and everyone is far from perfect; that is why the law is necessary, because mankind has degenerated and fallen.
For the last clause I changed the voice from passive to active (and flipped the double-negative “not unhelpfully” into a positive) but I’m still not 100% sure I got the meaning right. I hope “talibus” is supposed to describe the same plural subject (the Cynocephali) as “isti” did before. Siquidem et collectione sua multitudinem faciunt, et pariter habitare nonnisi sub alicujus jure conditionis poterant. Ubi vero jus aliquod servatur, consensu quoque animorum una continetur. Neque jus aliquod potest esse, quod consensus communis non decreverit. Verum talem praeter moralitatis disciplinam nec constitui, nec custodiri aliquando potuit.
“And if in fact they form a crowd when they gather together, they can only live together under some kind of lawful agreement. Indeed, where some type of law is preserved, it is also held together with the unanimous agreement of wills. And any sort of law cannot exist where it isn’t decreed by collective consent. Certainly, [laws] can neither be set in place nor ever preserved without some kind of moral instruction. I don’t know why the second “et” is in there – it breaks the flow of the cause-and-effect statement, so I ignored it. “jure conditionis” literally means “law of condition”, like some kind of social contract; I think I did all right saying “lawful agreement”. But then, “consensu” also means agreement and I have repetition! Pah, it’s too appropriate a word to change now.
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Post by Pacmanite on Jun 22, 2011 9:21:46 GMT -5
Okay, this is an impossibly cool project and I'm grinning like an idiot right now. xD; I know nothing about Latin or how to translate it, but I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this thread. This is brilliant stuff. (Incidentally, where did you find this letter, anyhow? =p) Rambly story: I was meant to be writing an essay for uni, and one of journal articles I was reading had some annoyingly complex vocabulary I had to look up in order to understand it. One of those words was "cynocephalic", as in "cynocephalic baboon". Yeah, I don't know why they had to be so descriptive either. This wasn't a zoology paper. Anyway, I googled it and found the Wikipedia page, and because I was trying to avoid doing work, I read the whole page and found a mention of this letter debating whether they're people or not. Then, again procrastinating, I tried in vain to search for an English translation of the letter... failing that, after much more searching and timewasting, I found a free online version (provided by Google Books) of a big compendium of medieval church letters. It was archived somewhere in the middle of that huge file and the page numbers were too worn out to use as reliable reference, but I found it. Eh, it was worth it. xD I had to force myself to get back to the essay and not waste any more time trying to translate the letter, but now all my essays are finished I can get stuck into this thing. ;D Wow, you work fast! I find your translation to be very comfortably readable. I also enjoy your notes. Is Ecclesiasticorum related to the modern ecclesiastic? If so, I think that term might just be 'the teachings of the church' rather than a specific position. Then again, I'm postulating an awful lot on the basis of very little. XD Lol, I don't know. Ignore me. Nah, I've already written a rough and dodgy translation of about a quarter of the letter, it was just a matter of putting the first bit of it together, rechecking my work and making it flow in English. And I'm pleased that you're enjoying this =D And yes, "ecclesiasticorum" is related to the word "ecclesiastic". The nearest word I could find in my dictionary is a noun, meaning "church". But the form suggests that this word is an adjective, so that would make it mean "churchy" or "of the church, pertaining to the church" or something like that. It's a little tricky because "doctorum" is also an adjective (I think. It's like that in Classical Latin, might be different for Med), and there is no noun supplied. So in this case, I strung the adjectives together and got the sense from the context that it probably describes some people. "Learned-churchy ones" would be my most literal translation.  But I appreciate the help anyway. Latin is funnn... |
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Post by Pacmanite on Jun 22, 2011 9:10:46 GMT -5
I don't know many languages, and I never had the patience to do more than just keep up with most language classes I took at school. Except Latin. <3 I love Latin. It's so structured and composed, and yet powerful, meaty. Reading the works of Classical authors in the original language is something of visceral experience... what would normally be mediated through a translation (sometimes a stuffy old one at that) you have to deal with first-hand. Poetry is probably my favourite genre to translate. Ooh, and if anyone here's interested, I'm partway through translating a very bizarre 9th century letter, Ratramnus' Epistola De Cynocephalis. Because I'm sure you're dying to know whether people who have dog heads should be considered human or not. xD ntwriters.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=news&action=display&thread=46940 |
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Post by Pacmanite on Jun 22, 2011 8:46:33 GMT -5
 I'm glad to know you're interested! I didn't know that "cynic" came from a root that meant dog-like, that's really neat. And I haven't read those things you pointed out there, so next time I find myself in a library I'll sure keep an eye out for them. ^_^ Eehee, Latin is a bit intimidating. But it's like a puzzle. A long, wordy puzzle. --------------------------- minexconsulting.com/publications/miscellaneous/ratramniepistoladecynocephalis.pdfOoh, and here I've uploaded a copy of the Letter so you can chart my progress. Or point out that I misread something on it. I originally got this from a google books version of a volume of Latin discourse originally published back in the 19th century, and some of the letters are a bit squished and smudged and hard to read. Which, perversely, makes this translation feel even more exciting. I think this version's actually got a lot of typos in it, too, but then again, maybe I'm just thinking all Classical Latin-y and not getting that some of the words are meant to look like this. xDD ------------------- And now for some translation! (As an aside: Whoa, this guy uses "quod" a lot. To the point that I'm finding it useful just to ignore the word and get on with the rest of it. xD Not that it means much anyway. "That...".) I'm putting the Latin in italics, and working a sentence or two at a time. The spoilers contain my notes about the translation. RATRAMNI
EPISTOLA DE CYNOCEPHALIS
Ad Rimbertum presbyterum scripta.
RATRAMNUS’S
LETTER OF THE DOG-HEADED PEOPLE
Written to Rimbert, an elder. Divinae gratiae muneribus honorato, plurimumque in Christo diligendo RIMBERTO venerabili presbytero, RATRAMNUS sempiternam in Domino Jesu Christo salutem.
“To the one esteemed with the gifts of divine grace, and writing in Christ to RIMBERT the honoured elder, RATRAMNUS greets him in the Lord Jesus Christ everlasting. A formal greeting at the start of the letter. All those datives and ablatives  I couldn’t work out where “plurimumque” (roughly means “a lot”) fits in grammatically, because it’s this random accusative in the middle somewhere, so I kinda left it out. It might be the object of “writing”. Quod nostrae petitionis memores effecti, scripsistis nobis illa quae de Cenocephalorum a natura potuistis cognoscere, non modice me laetificastis. Quod vero ad ea quae postulastis minime rescripserim, noveritis negligentiae torpor nequaquam hoc contigisse, verum quia delatoris praesentia non affecerat, suspensum fuisse.
“After you were informed of our request, you wrote to us about those things you were able to learn concerning the nature of the Cynocephali, and you pleased me more than a little. Indeed, I’m going to revise very little of what you claimed about them; you will know that by no means did I come to this [sentiment] out of the torpor of carelessness, but that I was in fact uncertain of what was not attested by the presence of an informer. I wasn’t sure how to translate “affecerat”; all attempts to render the active sense in English came out clunky, so I made it passive. My dictionary says it can mean “affect, endow, afflict with”, but I think the phrase is meant to mean that he’s a little uneasy about accepting information supplied from people who weren’t present in actual contact with the Cynocephali. Nunc autem veniente fratre Sarwardo ad nos et ad vos remeante, data occasione, solliciti fuimus, breviter intimare quae nobis videbantur super inquisition vestra.
“But now Brother Sarward is coming to us and will return to you, and given this opportunity we were anxious to briefly disclose what we thought concerning your investigation. My guess is that “Brother Sarward” carried the letter from Ratramnus to Rimbert. “Intimare” isn’t in my Latin dictionary, and in Italian it means something different from what’s implied here, so I went with my gut and translated it as if it had the sense of “intimate/disclose” in English. Quaeritis enim quid de Cenocephalis credere debeatis, videlicet utrum de Adae sint stripe progeniti, an bestiarum habent animas: quae quaestio compendiose ita potest determinari.
“For you are asking what you ought to think of the Cynocephali; namely, whether they were descended from Adam’s stock, or if they have the souls of beasts: this question can be briefly settled as follows. The main point of contention. Are the Cynocephali human (i.e. descended from Adam), or animal? I’m a little worried about how to translate “determinari”, but I think “settled” sort of works for now. Si hominum generi deputandi sunt, nulli dubium debet videri quod primi hominis de propagine descenderint. Neque enim fas est humanam credi aliunde deduci originem quam primi de parentis substantia.
“If we were to consider the kinds of people there are, it should seem obvious that they had been descended from the offspring of the first humans. And of course it is impossible to suppose that a person came from some other origin than through the means of their earliest ancestors. Wasn’t sure whether “generi” should be translated as “kinds” or “races”; it can mean that and a lot of other things but it’s not particularly clear which meaning is better in context (I don’t think he’s bringing up racism here though). And I felt that the “quod” seems demonstrative rather than interrogative here. Quod si bestiali generi connumerantur, nomine tantum hominibus, non natura communicant. Inter haec sciendum vero si contenti fuerimus opinione nostrorum, videlicet ecclesiasticorum doctorum, inter bestias potius quam inter homines deputandi sunt, siquidem et forma capitis et latratus canum, non hominibus sed bestiis similes ostendit.
“If we ponder about the species of beasts, named as such by humans, by their nature they don’t communicate. Meanwhile with this knowledge, if we were indeed satisfied with our supposition, which is clearly held by the learned church-ministers, then they [the Cynocephali] should be considered closer to beasts than humans; if in fact they have a canine head shape and bark like dogs, it shows they are not like humans, but are similar to beasts. I translated “connumerantur” as “ponder, consider”, but I couldn’t find it in my dictionary. The “sciendum” gerund(ive?) gave me a lot of trouble; I’m not very used to working out this construction. “Ecclesiasticorum doctorum” I assumed would be the thinky types who also staffed the church, I called them “learned church-ministers” to avoid being too specific (and also I’m not Catholic and am unfamiliar with the terms used for various positions, so if I find “ecclesiasticus doctus” has a standard English translation, I’d change it to that). Hominum denique est rotundum vertice caelum aspicere, canum vero oblongo capite rostroque deducto terram intueri. Et homines loquuntur, canes vere latrant.
“Next, a human head is round and placed on top so he can behold the heavens, whereas the dog’s head is oblong and drawn out in a snout so he looks to the ground. And humans talk, but dogs, in fact, bark. I guess having a dog’s head is no small difference, then. xD |
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Post by Pacmanite on Jun 22, 2011 5:18:04 GMT -5
Hey, I was wondering where I ought to post this. It is certainly strange, but not exactly "true". (As in, there weren't really any Dog-Headed People, but the letter itself is real.) Well, I dug around and found a bizarre piece of Latin from the 9th Century AD in which this guy Ratramnus tries to work out whether the Cynocephali ("Dog-Headed People", literally, people with dog heads on humannish bodies) should be considered human or not. It's called the Letter of the Dog-Headed People. And in the end, Ratramnus decides they're human enough after all (which is pretty mind-blowing when you're used to thinking of how people in the past were all racist and everything). Admittedly on the face of it, this seems like a totally pointless subject to talk about now that we know the Cynocephali didn't actually exist. Except that some of the things he says seem to resonate a little with that Trope: What Measure Is A Non-Human? And it kind of makes me think about the anthropomorphic bipedal dogs in fiction. Anyway, I couldn't find a full English translation of it, and was itching to read how Ratramnus figured the Dog-Headed people counted as people. But I do know a bit of Latin, don't I? So why don't I go and translate it myself. It'll be fun. Heh heh heh. Problem: I'm trained in Classical Latin, the language of Caesar and Ovid and Cicero, written in the Golden Age of Rome, 1st centuries AD and BC. This Latin is from deep in the 9th century AD, so translating this is like reading a language 800 years into the future. xDDD My dictionary is only built to cope with Latin from the Classical period, and I don't know modern Italian, but I'm told Medieval Latin mimics some of the syntax of Italian... Well, I know there are a number of people here who also know Latin. And I know there are some enthusiastic Medievalists around too. If anyone is both, and knows Medieval Latin, I really welcome your corrections if it seems I've translated something screwy. That said, I'll try to make my translation a nice fluent English, so it won't be too much of a pain to read along. Well, here goes. =D I hope you like it. |
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Post by Pacmanite on Jun 22, 2011 4:36:04 GMT -5
Yay! Happy Birthday, and you have a MEGA glomp too, Strife!
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Post by Pacmanite on Jun 22, 2011 0:10:19 GMT -5
ACCEPTANCE YAY
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I'm glad to know you're interested! I didn't know that "cynic" came from a root that meant dog-like, that's really neat. And I haven't read those things you pointed out there, so next time I find myself in a library I'll sure keep an eye out for them. ^_^
I couldn’t work out where “plurimumque” (roughly means “a lot”) fits in grammatically, because it’s this random accusative in the middle somewhere, so I kinda left it out. It might be the object of “writing”.