We will WRITE and WE MEAN IT (chat thread)

[Lizica]

So in...late 2018, I started sorta vaguely brainstorming and flinging ideas for a possible forum game into a Word document on my computer. It was one of those things that was on the very distant back burner, an idea throw or two every couple months or so, pretty chill-like, a kind of "this would be so super cool if I could get it to work, but it's kinda way too complicated" thing.

...At least until around this time last month--and my brainstorming doc has now literally doubled in size because my muse has just gone crazy intermittently punching me with ideas and writing random and very out-of-order snippets for scenes this past month.

And uh... At this point, I'm afraid you're not getting it back now, alas, Netwuff. It's mine now. (Sorry.) XD Thank you for the initial incentive, though~ <3

But please have a random snippet of description that my muse wrote a couple weeks ago that I'm pretty pleased with? xD

[The town's diner] was a very different place during its morning daylight hours than it was during its graveyard shift. At night, the diner was always somewhat bleak and empty, somewhat lonely, somewhat worn and well beyond its prime. Its lukewarm fluorescent lighting flickered into the dark streets outside and seemed to beckon insomniac wayfarers inside with the bittersweet comfort that it was okay. It’s okay, to feel lonely. I’m lonely, too, and here I still stand. Would you like to come inside and talk about it over a nice cup of tea that sort of tastes like coffee water?

If I make it an original story, though, it does mean that I'll unfortunately probably have to change the names of the ascended NPC characters who had NTWF in-joke names. ;_; Sads

[downrightdude]

MY brand spanking new 12-part series was rejected yet again, and I'm certain my psychic predictions were right.

Since my series takes place during an epidemic, I had a feeling that was why it kept getting rejected. Granted I started my series in October 2019, but I only finished it last month, so I can see why the NT wouldn't accept it.

Because of this, I'd either have to completely overhaul the series, or maybe wait for a time when such a story will be accepted. I'll still keep it in my storage, but I won't be resubmitting it a third time, at least for now.

[Twillie]

I'm curious, when it comes to starting a new story from scratch, what might everyone's processes be for developing it? What might you try to figure out first, be it plotline, characters, theme, etc.? Do you go through linear stages of research, prewriting, drafting, and editing? Or is it more haphazard?

I'm in the process of doing just this, and I personally don't have the most concrete method of developing a story. I go back and forth between a number of stages, which I feel is normal as stories are organic and ever changing, but I still wonder if I could be doing it in a more efficient and effective manner. I'd love to hear any advice or experiences (or fellow commiserating) you all may have!

[June Scarlet]

I think I usually start with the main character, Twillie. I usually come up with a character, and then I want to figure out a story for that character. At this point, I have more characters than stories for the characters.

I can think of at least one concept I have, though, where I have the main plot down, but I still need to fill it in with the characters. It's a children's picture book, so the plot isn't too complicated. I really like the concept, but figuring the characters to fit it has been a slow-paced, years long struggle. I had a couple of adults filling the role. Then I thought, children's book needs children characters. I've considered one child, one adult. I could even make it animal fiction.

Characters first feels a lot more natural to me, and thinking about it, is probably part of the reason why that project hasn't happened yet.

[Lizica]

Yeah, I think the process is different for everyone! For instance, in contrast to June, I almost never start with characters. XD I usually start with the story idea and its setting, and the characters usually blossom from those. (Like, say I have a sci-fi idea. Depending on the idea, it might call for a mad scientist. What kind of person are they, and what would have propelled them into this situation? Or, what kind of characters would be in this setting? Who would have had the opportunity to react to the inciting incident?)

I once tried to make a story sort of the other way around because I thought that was what you were "supposed" to do. I created a whole bunch of characters for the story idea and had grand plans that this would be my main adventuring party. But then when I actually started writing the story, that group of characters (minus maybe two exceptions) were largely only in one scene that didn't quite mesh with the storyline, and the action ended up involving entirely different people.

I know that some people like to plan every plot point in advance, but I also have a super hard time doing that, too. If I try to plan everything up front, I usually get stuck and end up not writing anything. ^^; (I think maybe literally the only time planning in advance actually worked for me was for my Madge fic, just because I had to mold the story into the frame already set by the original roleplay.)
For me, I often get a better feel about who the characters are and where the plot naturally wants to move simply by writing them. So even though I try to plan enough things in advance to get me started and try to get a good idea of who my main players are and where I want them to go, most of that tends to shift as I go along.

In short, I like the concept that stories are organic and ever-changing, and I personally don't think there's anything wrong at all with bouncing back and forth between stages, if that's working for you? Because each aspect tends to influence every other facet--characters drive the story, the plot prods the characters, the research informs the setting, the theme brings all the emotional elements together, all that jazz. For some people, having an "efficient" step-by-step system to develop a story might work, but not for me. xD I'm definitely in the "haphazard" category, IDK, WUT AM I DOING, CHARACTERS, C'MON AND TELL ME *FRANTIC KEYBOARD NOISES*

Anyway, I love hearing about your all's processes! =D I find it really interesting and helpful, because if I get stuck sometimes, I think it might help to try a different approach.


“The process of doing your second draft is a process of making it look like you knew what you were doing all along.” —Neil Gaiman

[downrightdude]

*is spending a month writing one short story*

*goes back to pushing hoop around board*

[Ian Wolf-Park]

Twillie

For me, I will start will the plot. As my setting and characters (especially with the Lupe Pack Detectives) are usually static, I don't bother with them as much, but it does mean that they're not as fleshed out. It also means that if I'm stuck, it will take me some time for me to think about how to proceed.

You may think that with the above, writing a series starting with the plot would be linear. It's not, at least for me. It's sort of a combination of linear and haphazard, leaning more towards haphazard, if the above point indicates. There are times as well where I would come up with another idea relevant to the story but appears later.

[Moni]

for me the inspiration i take is completely random. i don't have a good delineation of plot vs. character vs. setting in my mind, so it can start with any combination of them. like if i had a good setting i think: what kind of people would live here (characters) or what kind of things would people do (plot), or if i had a good character i think: where are they (setting) and what do they want (drives the plot), or if i had a good plot idea i'd think where in the world would this happen (setting) and who would do such a crazy thing (character)

sometimes i'm not even inspired. i just pick something and go with it.

after that i generally write a short summary of the narrative. you know, in that beat-by-beat thing the south park guys follow. connect events as much as possible with "because" or "therefore" or "but"--it's good for getting your thoughts down and not getting too stuck. i don't follow that outline because you know it's the act of planning that's helpful, not the plan itself, but generally writing things down in short form like this prevents me from getting stuck (and working it out this way reduces the number of useless first drafts where i'm just hashing out something long-form anyways).

by this point i have a generally good idea of where things will go. depending on length i might want a more sophisticated plan (if i'm juggling lots of events it's good to keep a barebones log of stuff, if i'm juggling lots of B-plots), but otherwise after that i just start going at it.

[Gelquie]

I can get inspiration in several ways, and where I get inspiration from depends on how I start drafting the story. I may start with the character, though unless I can figure out a way to craft some of the world around them to decide some of their behavior, it kinda fizzles because they're a character without a sandbox. Oftentimes, my inspiration comes from whole ideas, a general thesis I want to go for, or "hey, wouldn't it be cool if" type things.

I'll think about that idea and the setting that would go with that idea, and then in the process of imagining that, I tend to get some ideas for characters in how people may interact with the world, what their challenges are, and which ones best fit some of the huge beats of the idea I have while still being interesting characters. This section spends a lot of time in my brain, because it takes time to build things up and develop characters for that world that I'm interested in.

I'll also need to have a general idea of how they get there. This may involve an outline, either written or in my head, though for serious stories I try to outline at least a general idea. I seldom outline too hard, because oftentimes I'll find stuff to implement along the way. It doesn't matter if new things I come up with along the way change what I have, even drastically, so long as they either get to the same point or evoke the same idea that I originally came up with. Heck, sometimes it improves that way. But if I do make a major change, I may revisit the outline and see how it changes the story to make sure it doesn't mess up anything big, and see if I need to change the big thing, or if the new thing just doesn't work.

When it comes to writing, I'm only a partial skip-around. Like for the beginning, I may write some of the later beats to get my writing juices flowing, because introductions... are slow for me. Or maybe I'll write a short version of the story I want to tell, like an overall summary, or one of the main scenes with a bit more description of what I want. This will be a very rough draft, but it'll both serve to help my creative juices and fill out how they get there, and it can be a good reference later.

Anyway, once I have a general idea, I try to write in order as much as I can, because any changes I make that happen earlier will change stuff that happens later, pre-empting a re-write. If you're okay with re-writing, that's okay. It may mean that if I do decide to jump around, I leave more spaces in the draft. There's nothing bad about jumping around. Maybe a story point directly foreshadows a story point way later, and you decide to write that later story point while it's still fresh in your mind; that can work, it just may need edits. For as much as I try to write linearly (if the story is linear, which it usually is), my brain definitely jumps around, and if jumping around is how I get scenes written, so be it. The only thing is that this will almost always require edits or even a re-write of the scene. But if I like the scene, then that's not so bad. And I can use inspiration from the previous draft to fill in gaps or the like.

I guess an overview is "follow your brain, but remember your thread; jumping around is fine so long as you're prepared to edit."

Characters are one thing that may often change a story thread. I may be following the story long enough that the characters developed their own life in my head, and they may have their own ideas about how things will go. I tend not to force them too much, so long as they're going in the general direction, because otherwise it could be contrary to the character. There's often ways to write around or mitigate any issues from this. Maybe they don't need to go into the Tomb of Certain Death; maybe there's a third, better option. Maybe they're afraid and need to spend a moment being afraid or getting Inspirational Words from others, or remembering why they're going into the Tomb and what it's for. Maybe the character realized they would rather sacrifice others, but another character is not letting them have it and tricks them. The list goes on.

I guess part of the point is: You can change things as you need to, so long as things remain internally consistent, and true to the story you want to tell.

Those are just my ramble-thoughts, in case they help.

[Celestial]

For me, it really depends on the story. Usually I start with a thought which is the initial idea, which can normally be summed up with a single phrase or sentence. Then I try to expand upon it, seeing where it takes me and what sorts of characters develop from it. I let the characters develop naturally by putting them in situations and seeing how they act. Sometimes they throw a feature at me I have to make work, other times I have to force things upon them for the story to move along. Then I build up setting and try to figure out the plot and what I want to say with it.

Although, to be honest, there is no one set way for me. Sometimes the plot comes easily and the characters are a bit more murky. Other times, I get ideas for individual scenes but no clue what happens in between or how to get to those scenes. I rarely have any organised research plan because then I get bogged down in minutia. Instead, I see what the story and characters demand of me and try to research that while also just going with whatever feels right. The characters are allowed to dictate whatever the heck happens generally, and I build the story arc around that. I generally do need to know what happens before I start writing, because I write in a chronological order and in such a way as to hammer out every detail first. As such, I like doing foreshadowing and for everything to fit nicely.

I wish I could figure out an effective and efficient manner to do this in, but given that my stories are always driven by the characters, plus I strive to make my characters feel as natural as possible, that might undermine it. Plus, again, I get bogged down in minutia a bit too easily.

[Twillie]

Thanks all for sharing! It's indeed been interesting to read how others write, and it's got me thinking more about my own methods :3

It's been a long while since I've sat down and analyzed my story writing process (if I've ever actually done that lol), and now that I'm starting it from the beginning again, I feel like I'm overdue for some updates. It's always taken me ages to get a story off the ground (I think it was 1 or 2 years before I figured out any plot for Blossoms, and another story of mine has been in the prewriting stage for even longer), but I want to do better, especially if storytelling is something I want to get more serious with. It gets frustrating when I feel like a story is stuck in limbo with no progress, and I'd love to spend more time creating than just ruminating on what could be.

One thing I've noticed about myself is that ever since I started writing, I always considered myself stronger with plot rather than character creation. I'd typically start a story by figuring out its premise, and then come up with the conflict and outcome before anything else. From there I'd figure out the kind of people that'd carry out this plot. Or at least, that was the ideal plan I tried to follow. I think I've always had to fight with this process, and when things got difficult I assumed the issue was with me and not the method I'd laid out. Writing certainly isn't easy even in the best circumstances, but I can see now that this story-first approach is an outdated view of myself.

At one point perhaps story ideas did come easier to me, but I think what I actually do is think of interesting standalone events but then struggle to connect them in a cohesive narrative. It's similar to what you described regarding individual scenes, Celestial; I related a lot to what you said about inspirations switching around and wanting a more efficient method for all this.

That's one example of the thought process I've been going through, so right now I'm in this sort of transition phase with how I plan and write. There's a number of dated or unhelpful things I'm dismantling, but at the same time I still wonder what to replace them with. Getting to hear what may work for others helps me consider habits to try myself, so thanks again to everyone who's shared so far! Haha maybe someday I'll know what I'm doing.

[June Scarlet]

I've thought about my answer some more, and I realized that while I usually start with a character, that character begins with a premise.

See, the thing is, when I was thinking of my answer, I was thinking of my roleplayed stories, and stories for existing characters. I mean, a roleplay, you start with a character, you have no idea where the plot will take you, you just sort of roll with it. But then I remembered, usually you at least know the basic premise when you make that character, or you have some sort of premise. That character came from somewhere. Even if in some cases, I've had a character so long I've forgotten where the character originally came from.

I really do tend to use the same characters over and over again. You get to know them, like old friends.

But I do create new characters as well. Like Lisa Copper and Franklin Fuzz. They came from the premise of having parodies of crime shows. I wouldn't call them the most developed characters, but they have a personalty which further informs more jokes and comics. The premise gets you starts, but it's the characters who carry it forward.

I have another story idea, The Magician's Guinea Pig, which has a very simple premise. A girl reaches into a top hat and pulls out a guinea pig. But I very quickly went from that to drawing and trying to figure out the character. I also tried to figure out the story a bit too, like where she was when she found the hat, why there was a guinea pig magically in there, and so on. But let's be honest, without a good character, why am I going to be thinking about the story all the time? Still not quite sure where I'm going with Jess and Taffy, it's been a while since I've focused on that story. Now they're just kind of characters in my repertoire.

Lately I've been thinking about two of my existing characters, and trying to tell their backstory in a new and refreshing way. They're Neopets of mine, and I know their backstory, but I know it so well that it feels like it's already been done. I'm looking for a way to tie it into present day, and there's some logistical problems with that. But the point is, it's with existing characters, so it's something easy to think about.

I do think it's natural to jump around in storytelling details, especially in the beginning of the process. While I do often start with a character, their personality forms by their interactions, by the plot that surrounds them. It's quite interesting.

[Twillie]

I have another question, although less introspective this time: Does anyone have recommendations for stories that you find handle representation/discussion of mental health well? Bonus points if it's specifically depression or anxiety related.

I ask because I feel like I only hear about mental health-related media that just perpetuates harmful misconceptions or stereotypes rather than does the good it was trying for. I'm wanting to find some stories that are successful in their representation as examples to remind myself that it can indeed be done, since the story I'm writing now is also connected to mental health to at least some degree. It just feels intimidating the idea of actually making public a story like that, as I feel I'll inevitably mess it up like everyone else seems to.

I'm open to books, comics, shows, movies, really any medium where you may have found a story that directly or indirectly portrays mental health successfully.

[June Scarlet]

Twillie I think I have some ideas, but it'll take a bit more research on my part, and a bit more time which I don't have at this exact moment, I'm about to leave for the day. I'll probably message you the results as well instead of posting them.

By their nature, most of my recommends are going to be more mature than what I'm used to dealing in, which is middle grade fiction. Not that those don't have their share as well.

[Kat]

Oct 20, 2021 1:30:17 GMT -5 Twillie said:

I have another question, although less introspective this time: Does anyone have recommendations for stories that you find handle representation/discussion of mental health well? Bonus points if it's specifically depression or anxiety related.

I ask because I feel like I only hear about mental health-related media that just perpetuates harmful misconceptions or stereotypes rather than does the good it was trying for. I'm wanting to find some stories that are successful in their representation as examples to remind myself that it can indeed be done, since the story I'm writing now is also connected to mental health to at least some degree. It just feels intimidating the idea of actually making public a story like that, as I feel I'll inevitably mess it up like everyone else seems to.

I'm open to books, comics, shows, movies, really any medium where you may have found a story that directly or indirectly portrays mental health successfully.

That's a good question and right now the first answer I can give you is Inside Out. IIRC Pixar even spoke to experts during the development of the movie.