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Post by Crystal on Aug 18, 2011 8:39:47 GMT -5
1. It is war-time. You are in a cellar with a group of people, hiding from enemy soldiers. If they find you, they will kill you. There is a baby in the cellar, and he starts to cry. You try to comfort him, but he is inconsolable. The enemy soldiers are drawing near, and if they hear the baby, your hiding place will be revealed, and you and the others in the cellar will be killed. You have a blanket with which you could smother the baby, thus guaranteeing the safety of the rest of the people in the cellar.
Could you kill the infant? What if it was your child? What if it belonged to a stranger?
2. You have been shipwrecked, and you are with several survivors on a life-raft. However, there is too much weight, and unless someone gets off the raft, the entire thing will sink. Anyone who leaves the raft, however, will certainly drown. Onboard the raft is an elderly man who is in poor shape. He refuses to jump off.
Could you push him off? What if he was likely going to die anyway? What if there was help nearby and a small possibility he could be saved (assuming someone else-- someone healthy-- voluntarily left the raft)? Well, about the second scenario, that actually depends on which sea you're on. If you're in a warm one, really, people could just take turns swimming. I couldn't do it, though. I'd just turn into a little shut-in (as Nat phrased it) and let someone else (like Stal) do it. >> *sidles off*
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2011 10:46:14 GMT -5
My religion teacher in public school once laid out this hypothetical question for us to reflect upon:
Earth is dying and there are only three humans left of the entire race: A young male with strength and stamina, a highly pregnant woman and an elderly man who remembers the culture and stories of their people. They all manage to escape in a space ship that is bound for a new world. But once they are in space they realize that they will not have enough oxygen for all because the woman would give birth on the way.
Someone had to die for the rest to live, but who?
The newborn? The only woman (after the birth)? The old and wise man? The only young male with reproduction abilities?
Up until today, I still haven't been able to decide on who should have to die. Might be interesting to hear in the context of this topic.
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Post by Jo on Aug 18, 2011 11:14:52 GMT -5
My religion teacher in public school once laid out this hypothetical question for us to reflect upon: Earth is dying and there are only three humans left of the entire race: A young male with strength and stamina, a highly pregnant woman and an elderly man who remembers the culture and stories of their people. They all manage to escape in a space ship that is bound for a new world. But once they are in space they realize that they will not have enough oxygen for all because the woman would give birth on the way. Someone had to die for the rest to live, but who? The newborn? The only woman (after the birth)? The old and wise man? The only young male with reproduction abilities? Up until today, I still haven't been able to decide on who should have to die. Might be interesting to hear in the context of this topic. I would say the old man should die. Firstly, he can teach the stories and culture to the other man and woman. But even if for whatever reason that wasn't possible, I think the humans need to worry about survival first and foremost. There's not much point having human beings knowing about culture if there aren't any left XD I suppose the race could survive without the newborn (although to stay purely human there'd be some incest =/) because there's still the woman and man, but I'd imagine killing the newborn would rip the woman apart somewhat. So yeah, I'd say the old man.
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Post by M is for Morphine on Aug 18, 2011 11:50:27 GMT -5
I would say the old man should die. Firstly, he can teach the stories and culture to the other man and woman. But even if for whatever reason that wasn't possible, I think the humans need to worry about survival first and foremost. There's not much point having human beings knowing about culture if there aren't any left XD I suppose the race could survive without the newborn (although to stay purely human there'd be some incest =/) because there's still the woman and man, but I'd imagine killing the newborn would rip the woman apart somewhat. So yeah, I'd say the old man. I think killing anyone aboard the ship would rip the woman-and any other survivor- apart. But what do we know about the old man? Was he a carpenter? Does he know first aid, or survival skills? If you're down to a lone breeding pair, the human race is almost certainly doomed (I've heard the estimate that at least 30 breeding pairs would be needed to ensure any long term genetic survival). What if she only has sons? Or dies in childbirth? The race could end anyway for any number of reasons. I mean, is the man even her husband? What if he isn't? What if he turns out to be sterile? That's not even going into the extreme degree of incest that would be necessary and the havoc that would play on the genes) Also there's the issue of drastically increased mortality for any child that is born, due to their lack of doctors, pediatricians, or any sort of medical facility. Chances are incredibly good that the newborn won't make it to adulthood in the new and unknown world. For these reasons, I can't consider killing the old man really a solution that will save the human race. I don't actually think saving any of them would really save it. So the question becomes who has the knowledge and ability to make any sort of survival likely once they reach whatever planet they're going to? It irritates me that the only worth the woman is given in this equation is her reproductive capacity. Yep, women only have a womb to offer. The man's reproductive capacity is also touched on, but he has other qualities to offer (strength, stamina, they're clearly equating him with the necessary work to survive once they reach their destination). Anyway, callous as it sounds (and what option isn't callous?), I'd probably have to vote to kill the newborn. Three people who have skills and knowledge to offer each other have a better chance of general survival than two people caring for a completely helpless (potentially loud, predator attracting) third. Edit: In addition to the logical reasoning, there is an emotional reason for this, too. I think it would be psychologically easier for me to kill a human that was a blank slate over a human that had hopes and plans and an established personality. Would it be harder to kill a person you loved, or a person you may eventually come to love? Well, assuming any of us on the ship even liked each other. :x
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Post by Komori on Aug 18, 2011 12:33:03 GMT -5
Hopefully those three people are bound for a new world that has a mega-advanced alien population, one who could figure out how to fix the stark lack of genetic diversity in the last few remaining people. :B
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2011 13:04:42 GMT -5
Hopefully those three people are bound for a new world that has a mega-advanced alien population, one who could figure out how to fix the stark lack of genetic diversity in the last few remaining people. :B Well, if Adam and Eve could do it, I'm sure they could too *said with a humorous tone and is not to be taken seriously* It was merely a hypothetical question that was given for us to think about the value of life. It wasn't supposed to go deeper or beyond the info already given. Most of my classmates also suggested that the newborn had to go. Because the woman could have more children. As a mother myself, I would be inclined to say the old man, because his life is almost at an end. But he has the role as a 'teacher of the ways' and it would be a shame to lose that. But it's obvious that the choice must be between the newborn and the old man, because they cannot spare the young man nor the woman.
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Post by Joker on Aug 18, 2011 13:32:05 GMT -5
They should have a free-for-all and see who wins!
No but really though. If I was the one who got voted off the island so to speak, I definitely wouldn't go down without a fight - human race or no human race. xD I don't think there's any "fair" answer, at some point it just becomes survival of the fittest. (Which sucks for the old man and the newborn baby, I guess.)
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Post by Nimras on Aug 18, 2011 13:43:21 GMT -5
I would chose to kill the newborn.
The young man and the young woman are needed for the survival of the species, and the experience of the old man is needed for caring for the later coming infants so that the younger two can ensure their survival via food, shelter, labor, and more reproduction.
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Post by Stal on Aug 18, 2011 17:45:18 GMT -5
I'm more surprised that the life support can handle three adult humans, but not the addition of one infant. XD
Oh, wait, am I not supposed to think of it that way?
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Post by M is for Morphine on Aug 18, 2011 17:49:25 GMT -5
I'm more surprised that the life support can handle three adult humans, but not the addition of one infant. XD Oh, wait, am I not supposed to think of it that way? There's a lot about the scenario that gets ridiculous if you think too hard. ;x
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Post by Stal on Aug 18, 2011 17:52:10 GMT -5
I'm more surprised that the life support can handle three adult humans, but not the addition of one infant. XD Oh, wait, am I not supposed to think of it that way? There's a lot about the scenario that gets ridiculous if you think too hard. ;x Such as the old man just as easily being capable of providing towards the breeding and survival?
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Post by Nimras on Aug 18, 2011 17:55:21 GMT -5
There's a lot about the scenario that gets ridiculous if you think too hard. ;x Such as the old man just as easily being capable of providing towards the breeding and survival? Clearly he's gone though man-o-pause. *brick'd*
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Post by Stal on Aug 18, 2011 18:00:05 GMT -5
Such as the old man just as easily being capable of providing towards the breeding and survival? Clearly he's gone though man-o-pause. *brick'd* In other words, there better be plenty little blue pills aboard if he's considered for that. (I also wonder how old the man is in this thought experiment) Anyway, I would almost wonder if the situation wasn't moot. If she gives birth on the flight over, what's the chances that with decreased nutrition and living in space, the infant would survive full term. There's too little information about the scenario for me to make a choice. But if I absolutely had to, the newborn hands down would be the one to go. Though I would honestly imagine that life support could easily handle the strain of the newborn as well. <.<
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Post by Nimras on Aug 18, 2011 18:04:07 GMT -5
In the long term, the situation would most likely be moot simply because two or three people is not a very stable genetic base. Unless they've got flawless genes, in a couple generations they'll all be inbred, toothless, and sterile, wracked by genetic diseases. But such questions rarely want you to consider very long term.
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Post by Komori on Aug 19, 2011 0:36:04 GMT -5
Such as the old man just as easily being capable of providing towards the breeding and survival? No, 'cuz that's gross. XD
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