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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2010 0:40:28 GMT -5
Oh wow. Five cards in that list are in my deck. And I thought I wasn't totally abusing them! ... I still have that battle with Celestial, though. I'm not sure I'll be able to continue that with these changes. I am officially confused. And you might want to actually list out all the cards that have been modified, for clarification. Scar and I both did say this before but any duel you are currently in you may complete using your current deck and THEN make the changes needed. And I don't get what you mean by "abusing them" ... And that's a good idea. I'll get Scar to edit his post with the modded ones. |
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Post by Draco on Jun 13, 2010 0:42:54 GMT -5
I'm glad that 3 of the cards I have to switch are new, and I never added to my deck yet XD
It gives you a chance to get a few of the newer cards (FQ Expansion) XD
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Post by Vyt: Down, but Not Out on Jun 13, 2010 0:48:47 GMT -5
Oh wow. Five cards in that list are in my deck. And I thought I wasn't totally abusing them! ... I still have that battle with Celestial, though. I'm not sure I'll be able to continue that with these changes. I am officially confused. And you might want to actually list out all the cards that have been modified, for clarification. Scar and I both did say this before but any duel you are currently in you may complete using your current deck and THEN make the changes needed. And I don't get what you mean by "abusing them" ... And that's a good idea. I'll get Scar to edit his post with the modded ones. There won't be any benefits continuing a battle with an outdated deck. No offense, but this is rather a major rip-off change. Most people here made their starter decks surrounding that card list, and even if they didn't include one of them in theirs, they could've assumed the possibility that someone might use them against them. I don't know if I can seriously continue in this case. I am left with an incomplete and severely-weakened deck and several spare cards that I can't use properly due to the nature of my deck. And I don't think replacing the lost cards would even compensate for it. EDIT: If it's only an issue of "canonicity", why not just rename the cards, then? I don't see why that's such a huge problem. |
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Post by Draco on Jun 13, 2010 0:57:24 GMT -5
The way I see it, it's similar to some card tournaments, where they forbid certain cards to be used or the amount of that card in a deck. Now I've never been in a real tournament, but I've heard of them, and I usually hear people complain about their favorite cards being outlawed in a tournament.
Most of the time they get over it and continue to play though. I'm changing cards even though I don't think I'll be a part of the event because of my vacation. *shrugs*
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Post by Scar on Jun 13, 2010 1:47:52 GMT -5
Scar and I both did say this before but any duel you are currently in you may complete using your current deck and THEN make the changes needed. And I don't get what you mean by "abusing them" ... And that's a good idea. I'll get Scar to edit his post with the modded ones. There won't be any benefits continuing a battle with an outdated deck. No offense, but this is rather a major rip-off change. Most people here made their starter decks surrounding that card list, and even if they didn't include one of them in theirs, they could've assumed the possibility that someone might use them against them. I don't know if I can seriously continue in this case. I am left with an incomplete and severely-weakened deck and several spare cards that I can't use properly due to the nature of my deck. And I don't think replacing the lost cards would even compensate for it. EDIT: If it's only an issue of "canonicity", why not just rename the cards, then? I don't see why that's such a huge problem. As we've stated in the post, the main reason we wanted to change it was to have the TCG be more canon and, well, forum related. We feel that the current modified list is closer to the spirit of the NTWF than previous card lists. We're not trying to 'rip-off' the players but to help improve their TCG experience so that they have something to relate to in the cards, rather than have some random throw-away cards. I know this is a great blow to all current strategies but think of it as a way to try out new strategies rather than stick with one at a time. The forumers I've noticed have come up with lots of ingenious tactics using the cards provided and having played in the previous TCG I can say it's refreshing seeing all the new faces playing the game in new ways. You're all smart cookies and I've seen players old and new alike adapt to the new TCG so I'm confident you can come up with something ^_^ Also we have tried to fix some cards by changing their names, in particular the events, but some cards were generic enough that they had to be cut out. Such as ninja bowgirl for example. Another reason we had to cut cards out was because of redundancy, that other similar cards exist or that it's tied to an already existing card, such as Three Megaton Nuke (a fighter) which is basically Thundy's Nukes. (an event) Draco is right in a way. IRL TCG tournaments usually have a specific set of cards allowable in official tournaments (In Magic: The Gathering, they're divided into formats, some legal, others illegal in official tourneys such as the Unglued set) but in the case of the NTWF TCG it's more a form of streamlining. Anyway, do note that if you feel the cards deserve to belong in the TCG you can always resubmit them in a theme expansion and we'll consider it for inclusion into the TCG. (Details are in Card Creation Thread) Like I said before, we are trying out best to smooth the transition out. |
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Post by M is for Morphine on Jun 13, 2010 2:55:07 GMT -5
I don't think I will be continuing to make card art. It is very sad to me that about half of my work has just been removed. Several I had ear marked for upcoming art are also gone, and it is hard to make myself get excited again. I guess I just chose the wrong time to start helping.
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Post by Strife on Jun 13, 2010 4:32:36 GMT -5
Maybe instead of flat-out deleting cards, they can be put in a Retired status and it's up to the owners whether or not they want to swap them out or canonically rename them in order to un-retire them?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2010 4:41:00 GMT -5
Maybe instead of flat-out deleting cards, they can be put in a Retired status and it's up to the owners whether or not they want to swap them out or canonically rename them in order to un-retire them? +1 I see a win/win situation here. Having canon cards is a good idea, methinks. But with this idea here, you won't need to cut any cards completely and people can still play their decks until they deside to replace them. Give it a shot, I say  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2010 4:54:45 GMT -5
Maybe instead of flat-out deleting cards, they can be put in a Retired status and it's up to the owners whether or not they want to swap them out or canonically rename them in order to un-retire them? You're wonderful, Strife, we'll run with your idea. The name changes are no big deal so they will stay as they are, however, the cards which were preciously "deleted" are now back in the card list ... sort of. While those using them in their deck may continue to use them, you cannot buy them from Cardland, trade them with other players*, and newbies cannot use them in their starter decks. You an also use them for the Visitation event if you wish. Any card art will be included but you will probably need to negotiate with Hunty as she has said she doesn't really want to make non-canon cards. * This is to prevent what happened with things like Unconverted pets on Neo. If you can only get 'em from one place (other people) then those people have the power to demand whatever they want. Inflation. >_> Please do not argue with this, its enough that you'll be keeping your cards. I will make the changes ASAP but I would also like to explain something to you people, and I hope I won't sound too much like a sob story. You see, I picked up the TCG when no one else would, when it had been dead for many months and I put in hours and hours of work to gather up the information and put it all into order. I came up with as many ideas as I could and got people to help me, but most of the work I did myself. Every morning I wake up and check the TCG. I read every thread in case someone has a question they haven't posted on the right thread, I note down wins/losses for each duel, I check the card creation thread and add whatever cards I can and there have been massive projects that you guys don't know a thing about. And I did it all because I love this game and I love the people who play it and I love having fun with it. I don't want you guys to say thanks to me, I just want you to understand that a lot of effort, both work and thought, goes into this board and that is why it hurts so much when a lot of you complain as you have. I have done the best I could and I was close to just letting this thing die again but some people have convinced me to keep on with it, so I will. I'm trying to make you all happy, trying to find compromises between the people calling out for a canon card list and the people who go around making cards whenever they have a "brainfart" as Hunty calls it. I'm not saying the cards aren't good, I love some of the cards we sort-of-deleted. And striking a happy balance is not an easy thing to do, especially not when I get nasty PMs from people who tell me I'm doing an awful job and rub my failures in my face. I'm not perfect, guys, I'm just trying to do my best. So please, next time you're unhappy with the TCG, don't yell at me, don't send me hatemail, actually talk to me and tell me what the problem is and we'll see if we can come up with a compromise. I want to see this thing alive and kicking with active and happy players and I can't do that if no one cooperates on anything they're even slightly unhappy with. Angsty rant over. If you read this, PM me and I'll give you something special. =D |
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Post by Stal on Jun 13, 2010 5:13:57 GMT -5
If I may expand on Strife's idea, and bring about something that should keep -everyone- happy.
I will use Magic: the Gathering as my model here. What people don't know is that there are many different kinds of formats for M:tG games out there. These formats take the name of legacy, vintage, standard, etc. In my Game Club (and most other places I'm aware of), there's only two types we refer to: type 2 and type 1.5.
Type 2 is the standard current official rules block. This is canon rules, sanctioned tournaments, ban lists, errata, etc, all official corrections in effect.
Type 1.5 is no-holds-barred, table rules. This mean proxies, banned cards, more than one copy of limited cards. You may never get to use a Black Lotus in standard Type 2 play, ever. Type 1.5, if you own a black lotus, you play it and no one has the right to complain.
Type 1.5 is of course limited by what the players themselves will agree to, what they'll put themselves through, etc. But it's available for anyone who doesn't care. Personally, my favorite decks and games were type 1.5 table games where I got slaughtered by people who knew what they were doing and played well.
The goal is to remember the game is about the players, not the game itself.
So I propose you adopt this same style. Once a card belongs to someone, it belongs to them and is theirs to do what they want with, like a real TCG. They can simply display it, or they can trade it. It's -their- card and not the property or under the jurisdiction of the canon printers anymore. And if people agree to play games under outside the canon rules, thats also -their- choice.
Then there's the second format, the official rules, the ones that all tournaments and sanctioned games are held under. The ones that official prizes are given for, shinies, etc.
If you want to keep this game alive, you need to keep it fresh, current, but you also need to let people keep control over what they've built. Errata, limit, or ban cards from "official" play all they want, but if they own a card, let them keep it, let them use it in any games they want that the other players agree to, and let them trade them if they want to (if the other person is willing to pay the price, why should you stand in the way of the trade? What you described isn't inflation, it's a shift in the equilibrium price. Barring the trades because you don't want "higher prices" is ridiculous as people will only pay what they're willing to. You can't demand something others won't pay.).
Otherwise, you're not running a game... you're running you're opinion of what the game should be and ignoring everything and everyone else. You can't lose with this format. Sure, maybe people won't be thrilled certain cards can't be used officially anymore, but their work doesn't become useless, and other players that play for the sake of the play and the skill can still enjoy what they want. You lose nothing in it, nor do those players that choose to go that route.
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Post by Draco on Jun 13, 2010 5:19:38 GMT -5
Hm, so Type 1.5 is what I would play, since I don't usually follow the current rules and stuff. I remember when I finally built a Yugioh deck (and never got to use) I read some of the ban/limits/etc and found I wouldn't be allowed to play in a tournament with my deck XD That didn't bother me, since I never got to play anyhow. If I did it would be with friends or family.
Type 2 is what I was thinking, I believe, when I mentioned that tournaments ban or limit cards and stuff.
Edit: In this games case. The main event stuff could be done in Type 2 style, while any other game could be picked depending on the duelers maybe.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2010 5:58:47 GMT -5
From the way people spoke to me no one would ever play in a tournament if I said they couldn't use the retired cards. So I bow to the will of the masses. I do see your point on the trading thing, so trading of the retired cards is allowed, but you can't buy them or use them in starter decks. Selling, tading, tourneys and normal duels are all fine.
Edit: Sorry, I'm slightly cranky. I've been abused all day and I've also just worked for an hour to put the cards back. They're in the card list under their own section now. Everyting is sorted. Everyone should be happy. If you are not happy I will bite you. D<
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Post by Jina on Jun 13, 2010 6:17:33 GMT -5
It seems to me that a lot of the cards have been retired due to the not being forum canon, so it seems odd that a number of the cards in what is now the retired list are forum canon (Animated Chest, I-Guy, and Clockwork Maid, to name a few). I can understand semi-generic things like Ninja Bowgirl, but is there any particular reason for the rest?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2010 6:20:43 GMT -5
It seems to me that a lot of the cards have been retired due to the not being forum canon, so it seems odd that a number of the cards in what is now the retired list are forum canon (Animated Chest, I-Guy, and Clockwork Maid, to name a few). I can understand semi-generic things like Ninja Bowgirl, but is there any particular reason for the rest? Basically what we did was use the forum search tool for the names of the cards in question and if we didn't find them outside the TCG, they were marked for possible removal. We couldn't find Animated Chest or Clockwork Maid (maybe we didn't look hard enough?) and I-Guy, although technically an alternate persona for Vyt, is only ever used in the TCG. Sort of a character extension rather than a unique character. Alternate personae are fine, but they actually have to be used (hence why I cut my character, Sharrad, since he's a Merc member but I've never actually used him). |
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Post by Jina on Jun 13, 2010 6:26:52 GMT -5
Animated Chests are from this. Clockwork Maids are from, if I remember correctly, the last TCG tournament. I seem to remember Underdeep-Draco had something to do with Nightmare Creatures. There might be a few more I'm missing, here. |
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