Cursing

[irishdragonlord]

This is something that affects me personally, so I figured, why not bring it up?

People these days think of swearing as "the norm" and "adult language". They throw it in movies to make it more 'realistic'. Personally, I think that's garbage.

People also say it's used to vent - when I vent, I either scream or punch something inanimate. I don't need to curse. And in addition, cursing is used to demean people, and that's it. If you curse than you're saying something really insulting, period.

As for "adult language"... if "adults" use bad language - can I stress enough that people still call it bad language and never normal language? - than all youre saying is using bad language is a sign of maturity. o0 Right.

And for realism in movies... if a movie is about Pearl Harbor and the soldiers curse, that's understandable, and though I don't like it, I can see the rationale. If it's like Grosse Point Blank and they use the F word for the sake of using the F word (honestly - it was ridiculous how much they swore, and it was ALWAYS the F word) that's moronic. And why can't you censor the soldiers cursing?

So, what do you guys think?

[Orginalcliche]

In my opinion it's just a word, and a it's the meaning behind that word that counts. The auctual word is how it's used. For me it's a way to release my anger, and I think it's better then punching someone. Truely though I use it where appropriat and I find very little problems with it.

[Princess Ember Mononoke]

I think the idea of there being words you're not supposed to say EVER is pretty stupid.

But what's even MORE stupid is having words that you're not supposed to say EVER that everyone says anyway.

I'm a big believer in the power of language. I think that curses have their place. Once last semester when a group of girls was being excessively cruel to me, I told them to f-off, and they all shut up. See, that's because I only use the f-word when I mean BUSSINESS. I've only used it three or four times in my entire life, so it actually has the intended affect. If another kid at my school, a foul-mouthed one, had pulled the same trick, it would have gotten them absolutely nowhere.

Because of that same respect for the English language, I don't like it when people swear incessantly. The f-word is not an adjective to describe any person or object you find mildly objectionable. It loses its meaning when people abuse it that way, and what they actually mean by it becomes. . . well. . . meh. It's hard to take a person like that seriously.

[Stal]

I curse. I'm not proud of it, but my language has gotten away from me this past year. I use to only use Crap. I wouldn't even say something sucked, crap was about as bad as I got.

Now? eh.

It's bad. And like I said, I'm not proud of it. I just need to do a better job at self-control. If any of you other college students out there have a way of avoiding such language...

Anyway, I must ask, if this language is okay to use but many people consider vulgar, does that mean the so-called racial slurs are okay to use? If they're just words, after all, who cares if a certain group gets offended, right? I mean, it doesn't matter if other people get offended by the other types of language used...*shrugs* just a question to throw out there.

If you notice, I have not taken a position. Sure, you may be able to tell how I feel about things, but I refuse to openly side with anyone in a topic right now. I mainly just wanted to get that question out there....

[Stal]

TEoW, can you clarify something for me? You post entire paragraphs about how these words are only negative based on societal views, etc. You say that the words themselves are only negative because society views them that way. So these racial slurs, well, what if someone isn't even using it do be a racist but using it to describe a person and being insulting. Much like the terms for progeny-of-a-female-dog, fatherless-son, boys-with-an-Oedipus-complex, and so forth are used to insult the person themselves, then cannot a person use these slurs that are beyond taboo by societies reasoning to use it to just be insulting to that one person?

I do realize that it is a tad different because the ones I listed are universal and you can't exactly say, uhm, yeah to a caucasian without looking dumb.

*shrugs* I'm just trying to get a handle on things here. I've always been curious as to what sets them apart from others. My history professor actually went into a little bit over this semester, but not to my satisfaction.

[Buddy]

IDL said:

And for realism in movies... if a movie is about Pearl Harbor and the soldiers curse, that's understandable, and though I don't like it, I can see the rationale. If it's like Grosse Point Blank and they use the F word for the sake of using the F word (honestly - it was ridiculous how much they swore, and it was ALWAYS the F word) that's moronic. And why can't you censor the soldiers cursing?

IDL, what you're suggesting is absolutely ridiculous. Can you imagine watching a movie, trying to get into the flow of it, following the plot, and suddenly - *BLEEP!*

If I were making a movie, I would never do that. If I were watching a move that did so, I would probably walk out of it in sheer content.

Have the galls to say the actual word, or just don't simply say it at all.

And to that point, can you imagine watching a war movie, and hearing the caption yell "Gosh darn it, Tommy! Get your freakin' butt up there right now, or we're all gonna be blown to heck!"

Again, I would walk out in sheer frustration. That's ridiculous.

Two things people don't like watered down - their soda pop and their movies.

Stal said:

Anyway, I must ask, if this language is okay to use but many people consider vulgar, does that mean the so-called racial slurs are okay to use? If they're just words, after all, who cares if a certain group gets offended, right? I mean, it doesn't matter if other people get offended by the other types of language used...*shrugs* just a question to throw out there.

no-no, Wet-back, and apple-picker were all created simply to insult and degrade a certain race or group - f*ck and sh*t were not.

Personally, I find the whole concept of "Oh my gosh, that word is so bad!" to be totally inane and immature. The concept that there are words out there that are "bad" words is, to me, childish.

I cuss - how much exactly, I dunno. I don't really keep count. And I don't really care. Cussing is a type of exclamation - I'll give you that. And, as Ember said, when you use it all the time, you wear down the word to where it is no longer an exclamation - to a degree where it has no meaning.

I don't know if that's right or wrong. I know I don't like hearing the cuss word used every 5 seconds - I don't do that - but that doesn't mean those words are somehow "off limits". There is a time and place for those words - much in the same way there is a time and place for every word.

People don't go around yelling "Wow!" or "Whoa!" or "Geez!" every 5 seconds, because that wouldn't make sense. Its much the same with cuss words - there's nothing wrong with using the f-word in certain context (such as "Shut the fu*k up!" or "Oh fu*k, I just broke the dish!"), but it does sound sort of ridiculous walking around saying it all the time.

The English language is free to all those who know how to speak it.

[sarienne]

This is less in reply to anyone than as simply a historical note. The words most of us consider curse words today have a second stigma attached to them. They are (most of them) derived from Anglo-Saxon, the barbarian language that was spoken when the Romans invaded what is now England. Therefore, Anglo-Saxon, both then and today, was and is considered a more "earthy" branch of language. So, if you want to be high-brow, you say masticate, low-brow, go for chew. Latin: fornicate. Anglo-Saxon: F*ck. It's as much a matter of societal stigma being attached today as it is historical stigmas being dragged along.

The other reason certain words are found offensive is simply because most of them are used explicitly to give offense. They call into question the parentage, sexual orientation, and personal value of an individual. When they float into casual conversation, they tend to either stop things cold while we wait for the offense to be directed, or create a sense of bonding, as in: "none of us care whether or not anyone else finds us offensive."

So, why swear? Sure, it adds to realism. Sure, it allows you to freely express your feelings.

But, it also makes you sound like one of two things (in my mind anyway) 1: someone who is deliberately offensive for any one of a myriad of reasons or 2: too stupid to think of anything better than an expletive to express anything from "I want you to accept me in your group" to "I am furiously, miserably angry and unhappy and I want to be noticed immediately."

[Stal]

TheEaterofWorlds said:

*Re-typing post. back in a minute*

There's no need to. I read it all ready. And you pretty much said what I've heard before... for the most part I was just unclear because it sounded like you revoked your earlier stance when it came to slurs.

I mean, I'm not even advocating the use of those either. They were created, as you said, to tear down and be used in an extremely hurtful way. To dehumanize as my history professor said. But there's been other insults added to the mix nowadays (like the ones I mentioned before) that are supposed to do the same in a universal fashion. I probably won't really understand it, but, eh, what does it matter?

[Deleted]

I curse. A lot, unfortunately. But I don't think it's a good habit to have and I'm trying to cut back, hopefully stop. I think it's OK to swear every once in a while, but if you're swearing constantly, that doesn't show much for intelligence on your part. Sounds like you have a very limited vocabulary.

I agree with Buddy on how it signifies emotion. In a play I wrote, theres a couple and the wife has to support her children and her alcoholic husband, but can't find a job, so she must become a prostitute (it's set in the early 1900's). When her husband finds out, he tries to attack her, and while he's doing that, he shouts out "You slut!" Now, what symbolizes more emotion? "You slut!" or "You woman who has sex for money!"?

I don't know. I just think it's kinda cool how, just by changing your tone of voice or how you use a word, you can make it have so many meanings, each different. (Although that's probably off topic).

[Jessica Coconut]

Man, were they right when they said topics come back, again and again. I asked this VERY thing once before.

I too, believe there's a time and place for the swear. If used sparingly (like it's supposed to) it has the desired effect. If not, you end up no where, and there's nothing you can say or do to express what you truly feel, because all that you could use has been used on trivial things. You've already shown that the meaning is the same for (take Buddy's example) "I broke a dish", and for being seriously harassed.

People end up thinking that to you, being seriously harassed is then no more serious to you than breaking a dish.

It's like the psychological effect they sometimes use to train dogs to come when a bell is rung. You ring it and show food, so they come for the food. After a while of doing this, you take away the food, and they just hear the ring. They hear the ring first, and so far it's always come with food.

See? It's like if you swear all the time for no particular reason, and then you swear when you seriously mean it, people associate the swearing with no particular meaning whatsoever all the time.

[Crystal]

I swear, but only the not-very-foul words. Like 'shoot', 'darn', etc. When I use 'dam*' or 'bloody', you had SO better watch out. In fact, I believe the only time I've ever used those two was when Kyal (my computer) shut down and erased a few hours work in a program without AutoRecover. I've never used them on a person (unless you count mentally. If you do, I'm one of the most foul-mouthed people alive.)

The only swearword I seriously take offense in is "Christ" or "Jesus f***ing Christ/Buddha/you/your mother". Say the former, and I'll snarl at you. Say the latter, and I honestly will punch you in the face. There was a book once (Alien vs. Predator, if I remember right. Story was good, language was really really not) that had this seriously offensive poem in the front page. The only thing that stopped me tearing it out and stuffing it in the bin is that it didn't belong to me.

Besides, there's a guy in my school who keeps on going at me to say the F-word.

"Hey Scott."
"Esther. Say F***."
"No."
"Go on! Say it!"
"No."
"Say it!"
"No."
"Would you say it to your mother if I paid you a billion dollars?"
"Only if you paid me in advance and in cold hard cash."
"You suck."
"Thank you."

Also, another thing is that if you swear at someone, it might hurt them. It's one thing to swear when you're angry, but it's another to look at someone who's talking and say 'Shut the **** up." That really hurts.

So... about swearing. I'm much less innocent than I used to be, so you can cuss your head off, but my opinion of you will definitely go down if you do. I've known too many people who swear a lot, and not one of them has ever made a very good impression on me. And you'll get lumped in there with all the gangsters, all-out jerks, school drop-outs, smokers, the guy who once tried to molest my friend, the people who got suspended/expelled from school, and the guy who corrupted my brain until it's as bad as it is in the Tabloids. That's all.

So go ahead and swear until your tongue turns black. No one's stopping you.

[Patjade]

In my time in the military, I tended to use the same kind of words as those around me. Now, since I have retired, I work hard at NOT using those words.

Sure, they are easy to use. In fact, the use of the F word and others are seductive... But they are indicative of one with limited vocabulary and intelligence.

Think about it, if you rely of on the four-letter invectives and you can't seem to complete a sentence in conversation without F-this and S-that, you need to work on how you present yourself. Very few businesses and professions are accepting of their employees spewing forth such utterences in public.

Even today's military has signs up discouraging such, and young members who use that language in their duties will be disciplined.

I happen to agree. It might be fine for those who hang out in the alleyways, but not for someone who professes a command of the language and a better than street education.

Besides, it is much more enjoyable putting your linguistic skills to good use and creating your own descriptive phrases that CAN be used in mixed company of all ages, at least until the younger members can figure out just what in the world you are actually saying!

[Nighthawk]

Here's the thing.

There is a time and place for swearing. There is also an amount of swearing that can happen before it really starts to get annoying.
For example, I think Chris Rock is a funny guy. But he uses F**K in his standup every five seconds, LITERALLY. That is waay too much to curse.
I think cursing is not ok when you're insulting someone. But if your angry or something, like if I hurt myself I might say SH** or DA**. Racials slurs are not ok to use to hurt someone, the same with curse words. But using a curse word to vent frustration is better than doing something else like hurting someone.

[Oily]

I probably cuss (I love that word ^^) quite a lot, but it really depends on the people I'm with. I speak a wide range of vocabulary, and wouldn't swear in professional situations etc. Sometimes, with extreme rage, it's a good way to vent. The harsh sound of those words makes them good for releasing anger.

If I'm with people who swear more, I will too. Ditto if I'm with people using lots of slang - I'll pick it up. It's adapting and fitting in.

Some words I would casually use with my friends, for teasing. Others I would use with different, more rough-languaged people. Others I would rarely use at all, if ever. I rarely use religious curses (worse is a lot of "Oh my god" "dear god" "my god" etc) because that could be offensive to others.

Racial (or other closely related types of slurs) are not, and never OK. I have never said one of those in my life and wouldn't use them to fit in. There is a point from casual swearing, unaimed at anyone, except in jokes and teasing and mock anger, and actual offensive words.

Crap I use quite a lot, and I never considering d*mn a swear word, and resent having to star it out here

So, yes, I'll happily swear if tinkled off, or in certain company, and don't see why I shouldn't. If it is totally overused, in a harsh way, then it is inappropriate but otherwise...meh.

[Stal]

Oily said:

Crap I use quite a lot, and I never considering d*mn a swear word, and resent having to star it out here

((WARNING WARNING THIS POST CONTAINS THE USE OF WORDS, OUT OF CONTEXT BE THEY MAY, OF A LESS THAN SAVORY NATURE. IF YOU GET SQUEAMISH READING "VULGAR" WORDS, I SUGGEST SKIPPING THIS POST BECAUSE IT'S POINTLESS ANYWAY))


Isn't it ironic how you can say (no one yell at me for this, please, I'm pointing out weird quirks of the filter): Ass, Crap, Screwed, Sucks, Penis, and probably many more things yet you can't use: D*mn or P!ssed?