Transexuality

[irishdragonlord]

I swear, I must be beginning to adore controversy XD

So... something I would like to know first off is why?

What is the point? Even gay people do not go so far. I really find it wrong and quite disturbing; chaning who you were born as? You may argue the same for homosexuality, but you can't deny what the doctor exuberantly told your parents when you were born.

I just find it very wrong and I don't see the logic in it. I know girls who are tomboys and they are quite content being girls. Why go so far?

Enlightenment would be nice...

[eatm1ce]

Okay. Gay marriages is enough, but this is too far, I do believe.

Enough is enough, /please/.

[TheEaterofWorlds]

I will be using medical termenology for various parts and functions of the human body. If this offends you, please read no further. I am not out to offend anyone, but this subject does call for certain words to be used, and things described.

There are many different reasons, and many different cases, so it is difficult to explain just why. I know that in many cases, children are born with genitelia (sp?) that are either both or neither, or are similarly malformed, and they are often given a gender asignment. Many of these people were asigned the wrong gender during that time, and for them the surgery is a way of fixing a medical mistake.

For others, they do not actually have the surgery and only choose to live as the other gender.

The site of a eunnch I was reading (penis and testicals removed) discussed at length the concepts of 'sex' and 'gender'. He felt that 'sex' was something that you are born with, sex is what is detirmined by your genitals, however 'gender' is the way that you percieve yourself.

(A note on the ennuch; During a gender asignment soon after birth, the doctors gave him a penis and testicles however, the way they did it, there was very little sensation in the organ. He could ejaculate but not acheive orgasm and generally did not really feel it was a true part of his body, and wanted it removed for that reason. He is happily married to his loving and very understanding wife. He also identifies himself as male.)

I would also like to address that to actually change your gender you need to fill out the proper paper work, find a doctor that will do the procedure, and have extensive evaluations from at least two psychologists. This is mostly to detirmine if you want the operations because of the way you identify yourself genderly, and to make sure it is not done on a simply fetishist basis.

People who are born with an extra thumb get it removed, people with bad eyes get glasses, and people who were born in a body they do not feel they belong in can get a sex change.

I don't think people who get such an operation done do it for simple reasons- why would you considering the way you would be treated? There was a transgender woman (man originally) who still had her male organs. She had a medical emergancy and when the responding EMS found out, they refused to administer treatment and she was left to die. Since the rape and murder of Brandon Teena (On whom the movie 'Boys Don't Cry' was based), there have been 159 cases of violence towards transgenders. (Information from GLAAD again)

I've met some crossdressers and I've met some transgenders (Not the same thing). They all have their reasons, most feeling that they were trapped in a body that was simply not theirs. I don't see anything wrong with it, personally.

Edit: "Even gay people do not go so far" Um... there is a big differance between an attraction to other males and wanting to be female.

[Rider]

[glow=red,2,300]Neither do I. I wouldn't want to stay in a place in which I felt I wasn't welcome. It's a rushed metaphor, but hey. [/glow]

[Linnen Malfoy]

Some people simply feel that they were ment to be their oppisite sex. Gay and transexual are two completly different things.

It's nothing to 'understand' or 'get' perse. It's someone trying to understand who they are and simply be who they want to be. Their logic is that they are now becoming who they are - and if it makes them happy, then I'm all for it. They are entitled to be happy just like anyone else.

[Patjade]

Tests have been done on many transexuals and this is not a matter of waking up one morning and saying "Hey, I ythink I will be (opposite of the gender-defined sex) today".

For the majority of the Male to Female transexuals, tests have been done and it is found that the brain functions fully as female. The same thing for the Female to Male.

It isn't clear why this happens. There are thoughts that perhaps the mother taking birth control pills before pregnancy might have altered something, or the fetus was subjected to estrogen contamination that affected the brain.

It is a fact that all fetuses first start in the female form, but because the "Y" chromosome is shorter than "X", the male features develop later in the cycle. However, if the brain, one of the first things to form, starts developing in female form, you may very well have the start of the transgendered/transexual crisis.

There are also cases of varying intersexed conditions that can occur due to mutation or hormonal contamination of the fetus. Anywhere from the XXY (Kleinfelter's Syndrome), to XX Male, XY Female, or other combinations.

In some cases, if a child was born with both forms of genetalia, the doctor may decide to "make" the child one or the other, depending on what he thinks is right. Unfortunately, the child never grows up being happy with self. I have even heard of a case where a child's male organ was deformed at birth, so the child was made a "she". And the child was miserable, even when given estrogen at puberty. He reverted to his male form, and later committed suicide.

In today's Society, it is easier for a female to take on the trappings of maleness (mannerisms, clothing, etc.). Nothing is considered abnormal with this. However, if someone perceived to be male decides to wear something other than a kilt, they are immediately shunned, reviled, and threatened.

It isn't right and it isn't fair.

Being a transexual is no more perverted than anyone born with any other birth defect. You wouldn't stone someone to death if they had 6 fingers, or if their genitals were deformed, so why ostracize them because their BRAIN is different than the body appears to portray?

Consider this, OK?

[Kiddo]

slate.msn.com/id/2102006

Essay on the subject...

Considering how much importance is placed on gender and how difficult it is to change gender I can't imagine how anyone could decide to do that unless there was a genuine need, ie, what Pat mentioned. Not to mention a transexual will have the stigma of one to deal with.

I know very little about this issue aside from that article up there... but I see nothing wrong with transexuality. If anything, it'd be nice if affected individuals recieved more support from society instead of being viewed as strange or wierd.

[theunorthodox]

Wow... you know, I was going to make some scientific significant point like Kiddo and TEOW when I realized I honestly didn't care. I mean, this is absolutely *no ones* buisiness except the transexual's. It shouldn't even be a debate. How in the hell can someone deciding to change their gender harm you in any way? (Except maybe your mental concept that all people should have the exact same outlook on their gender.)

Not to be blunt, IDL, but you're only fourteen, which means you have a lot to still experience. Have you ever even *met* any gay or transgender people? Or know any? Or are friends with any? Or related to any?

[Buddy]

The said:

Not to be blunt, IDL, but you're only fourteen, which means you have a lot to still experience. Have you ever even *met* any gay or transgender people? Or know any? Or are friends with any? Or related to any?

I've been wondering the same thing...

Anyways, like has been said before - it's no one else's business. It just isn't. And if you care that a guy became a girl or a girl became a guy, you need to grow up and start minding your own business. I can understand the distress over gay marriage (to a certain degree...), but over this?

I just simply don't care. I just don't. And no one else should, either.

And, as a side note, I can't help but note all the sexuality-themed threads you're creating, IDL. I'm not trying to say it's wrong or to stop, just that it's... weird.

[TheEaterofWorlds]

Patjade said:

Being a transexual is no more perverted than anyone born with any other birth defect. You wouldn't stone someone to death if they had 6 fingers, or if their genitals were deformed, so why ostracize them because their BRAIN is different than the body appears to portray?

I agree.

People with six fingers and such used to be killed in some cultures, time periods, etc.. I think discrimination against people who have a sex change is a throwback from this kind of primitive and paranoid thought. Fearing what is different. Seeking to destroy what you don't understand. Humans tend to get very uncomfortable when something is outside of the norm. Stephan King refered to it as 'Watching for the monster' We want everything nice and neat and same and easy to wrap our heads around. When something different comes up we label it a monster and we want to kill it.

As a people, we are finally starting to understand that a person's skin doesn't make them worse or better than us. We are also starting to understand that people with disabilites are also humans deserving of the same respect we'd offer anyone. There are, however, a few more hurdles to be cleared.

Transexuality and the reasons behind it are something we do not totally understand yet. As we learn more about it, it will not seem so strange and wrong. It will be like any other medical procedure. I'm sure that the people living as transexuals today are eagerly awaiting that time. Let's do our best to help that time come sooner by being understanding and compasionate.

[Stal]

I actually agree that this topic just isn't one that needs to be discussed. While I may not understand the concept at times, I know it's more than just "oh, I want to be another gender". Honestly, as people have said, this really is no one's business and I honestly don't care myself.

[irishdragonlord]

Well, I did want enlightenment ^-^;;;

As you can tell, I am very, very fuzzy on this topic Basically I wanted to know how far off the mark I was.

And, yeah, I was pretty far XP

[wolfofthewoods]

Like more than one person has said above, this is really only the business and decision of whoever wishes this operation to be performed on them. I completely respect every single person who wants -- no, NEEDS -- to do this to feel right in their own skin and with who they are. There's no reason for them to be condemned or scorned for becoming who they need to be.

I like TEOW's comparison to what happened to people with mutations or disabilities (or even if they were just too darn tall) in history. We as human beings are generally quite frightened of things that we can't control or understand.

On a not totally different note: transvestites. I won't go into my feelings on crossdressers, because this thread has altered them quite a bit. But I really have no respect for people who take on the appearance of the opposite gender just for emotional or sexual gratification. If you dress another way to feel more like you're being yourself, by all means, go ahead. But, otherwise.. I'm just not sure.

[TheEaterofWorlds]

Wolf said:

On a not totally different note: transvestites. I won't go into my feelings on crossdressers, because this thread has altered them quite a bit. But I really have no respect for people who take on the appearance of the opposite gender just for emotional or sexual gratification. If you dress another way to feel more like you're being yourself, by all means, go ahead. But, otherwise.. I'm just not sure.

I'm a crossdresser. I mean, I wear pants and I shop in the men's section of a lot of stores. About a hundred years ago it would have been a pretty big deal. Cross dressing is another difficult issue because there are so many reasons for it. Some people dross dress because of gender issues, some do it as a fetish, and some just do it for fun. There are also straight male cross dressers.

Some people also just like the look of women's clothing better. There is a lot more variety in woman's fashion then men's.

I know a few cross dressers. I met one at Drac's Ball, who was very sweet. I didn't ask them why, it just didn't seem important at the time. -___- It's a little rough to meet a man who looks better in a dress than you do.

Anway, I've been to a drag show before. This past Fourth of July, it was a lot of fun. It was my friend Mike's first show. (His stage name is Rosen Bloom ;D) The day before I had helped his boyfriend shop for clothes for the show. I'll tell you what, shopping for a drag show in a Maryland Wal*Mart is indeed an experiance.) In that case, it was just done for fun. A bit of a novelty act. It was a small club and a small show and everyone came to have a good time and a few laughs.

Then there was that time in the GoodWill when Dave tried on a dress just because the shoulders were really wide and he thought it might fit. ("I look like Bea Authur!") Or the time my school had cross-dressing day for spirit week. Just for laughs.

Most (Not all, but I can't speak for the rest) don't cross dress all the time. It is a character, a game, a way to escape for a while. Like any other costume. I'm sure some people do it as a fetish, but that doesn't really bother me either. There are lots of fetishes in this wide world, whatever floats your boat, really.

But I guess I'm getting off topic. Sorry ^^;;

[wolfofthewoods]

Rosen Bloom. That's incredible. ;D

I don't mind at all if guys dress in girls' clothing -- in the end, it's just fabric, and if you like a feminine style or design.. Whatever, go for it. Fetishests do irk me, but that's just my personal opinion. Of course, it's their decision to do it, and I wouldn't question it.. I just think it's a tad creepy. ^^;;;