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Post by Kiddo on Aug 20, 2004 18:07:52 GMT -5
The funny thing is... I agree with 99% of what Al said, and I agree with this bit that Kiddo said as well. But I guess in a way, I'm in the middle ground. The thing is, most marriages today exist because they are sanctioned by an official governmental document, and often people who are "legally" married today are not married in a church. In that respect, marriage has become a legalized domestic partnership. And any two people, regardless of what gender they are should be permitted, in our non-secular government, to have the right to a legalized domestic partnership. However, the right to a MARRIAGE, in the terms of a religious joining, should be a matter decided by whatever demonination a person belongs to. If your demonination forbids it, that's a religious matter that you should debate with them and it should not be dragged into a public courtroom. *tackle hugs Stone* *remembers the NT Awards thread* *backs away VERY quickly* You said it right there Stone. I think we wouldn't be having this problem if marriage in a religious sense wasn't so tied up with our laws and such. But anyways. I guess back to original topic? |
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Post by stoneman3x on Aug 20, 2004 18:23:20 GMT -5
*tackle hugs Stone* *remembers the NT Awards thread* *backs away VERY quickly* *Platonically glomps Kiddo back* Back to our regularly scheduled program of discussion... |
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Post by Jessica Coconut on Aug 20, 2004 21:03:55 GMT -5
What a very interesting topic. Lets see here.
Indeed, it's not right to hate people. There's nothing WRONG with people. I have to keep saying that to my little brother, because I make him angry often. I ask him what's the problem, as if it isn't obvious, and he points at me. How fair is that? I'm not a problem. I'm a person. So I would ask, what did I DO that was the problem? And he'd tell me.
People aren't problems. There's nothing wrong with being gay or being black or being blonde or whatever other stereotypes we have that are still around and are long dead.
What people DO is the problem.
I hate to say it, but I too have participated in the "America is ____" conversations. Why? Not so much the people, but yes, the gov't. I hate how they always manage to rope Canada into whatever they're doing, wherever we've got no business. Wars, ideas, etc. It's crazy. Why should we have to listen to what the Americans have to say before we make our own decision. It's one thing to input some thought, but we never lead. We always end up following. We're an independant country, and we have the right to say, no, that's a crazy idea to repeal that environmental law. I suppose the most I can say about the American gov't after all is that they should mind their own business. Maybe we don't want their influence.
Yeah, I think that environmental example has to be one of my favourites. That's the big one. Why? Because aside from the fact that we're more multi-cultural than they are, and we have a french side to us, the other difference is our landscape. Whatever environmental laws the American's have may or may not work here. It's a delicate subject that must be catered to the country at hand.
I'm not really presenting it right now... so it doesn't seem very strong. I'm working off memory.
I mean, if we weren't associated with them all the time, with every little thing we do, then I wouldn't mind so much.
There are some bad people in the world, but they don't all live in the USA. Period.
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Post by Crystal on Aug 20, 2004 22:21:09 GMT -5
Warily, I'd have to agree with Kiddo, only based on what I've seen. Taking this forum, there are plenty of people here who disagree with gay marriage - I'll take Crystal as a perfect example. Yet, as she has said herself, she doesn't hate gay people - she just disagrees with their lifestyle. If the whole world could live like that - disgreeing with lifestyles, instead of hating people - we'd have that much more of a peaceful world. Me? Gee, I'm flattered. ;D LOL. You phrased how I feel pretty well, Buddy. Al, if everyone who disagreed with the lifestyle of gay people hated the people themselves, I'd be hating you with all my heart right now. And I'm not, although there probably are people who do. This thread is really intresting... *watches in fascination* I guess what I find most intresting about it is that you can actually talk like this. Over here, sure, you can talk about whether the government is bad or not, but take it too far and you get in trouble. I've never run across any country which bashes it's own government in public or which disapproval of it's own leader is as publicly obvious as the US. It's considered blatant lack of respect here, somewhat along the order of backstabbing and such. You know, "Disapprove of the leader all you want, but talk about it too loudly and you'll be giving yourself and your country a very bad name." That sorta thing. It's probably in the Patriotism chapter in my Moral Education textbook someplace. Stone said it best, I think. EDIT: Ooh, found it. It's an entire third of a chapter, chapter 4.2. ^^ It's part of... what's it called in English... darn, I can't remember. Was it 'creed'? I'm not too sure. The one where you stand up straight and recite it. It's the second line, directly after 'Kepercayaan kepada Tuhan', which means Belief in God. |
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Post by Pooh on Aug 20, 2004 22:36:24 GMT -5
I think one of the major reasons why people dislike Americans is because they are an easy target. Bit stupid really...
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Post by The Wanderer on Aug 20, 2004 23:17:01 GMT -5
You know... I think it is easy when a few people, like us, come together to talk about things like this. And Al made an excellent example earlier. Cultures vary by countries, which further alienates us from each other. Though, in retrospect, I would also point out that it would be the same for any American-born citizen to get a culture-shock by visiting Japan. So I guess that the real reason people fight, is because they believe they are different. Well, duh... We're all different. Oh, by the way... in case you were wondering, this is the thing that set me off about all this anti-americanism: www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/187642It has to stop. We can't go on like this. EDIT: This is a review I read for this movie, that makes the point I was really trying to get across: The part in bold is a point that people need to realize. |
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Post by althechia on Aug 20, 2004 23:40:25 GMT -5
I'm really sorry. I was kind of frustrated about something when I wrote the gay part. I really didn't mean to bring it in like I did.  |
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Post by The Wanderer on Aug 20, 2004 23:46:54 GMT -5
I'm really sorry. I was kind of frustrated about something when I wrote the gay part. I really didn't mean to bring it in like I did. The only reason there is a issue on gays, is because uptight ninnies are spreading their filth to the masses, and making it an issue. Therefore, I can only say that I will remain indifferent to that issue. But hey... there is no need to apologize, Al. You still made a great example earlier on. |
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Post by Kiddo on Aug 20, 2004 23:50:24 GMT -5
I'm really sorry. I was kind of frustrated about something when I wrote the gay part. I really didn't mean to bring it in like I did. It's alright. *hugs* As is, I think it's awesome you can remain civil on the issue at all. There's a couple things that could set me off and I know if they ever came up (I doubt they will) I'd probably go ballistic and get my behind banned. So yeah. I admire your self-restraint. |
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Post by Crystal on Aug 21, 2004 0:19:02 GMT -5
I'm really sorry. I was kind of frustrated about something when I wrote the gay part. I really didn't mean to bring it in like I did. 'Tis okay, Al. ^^ Everyone gets frustrated once in a while and like Kiddo said, you're already handling it remarkably well. The only reason there is a issue on gays, is because uptight ninnies are spreading their filth to the masses, and making it an issue. w00t! I'm an uptight ninny! How awesome! I'm still wondering whether I was being sarcarstic there or not. Intresting movie, though. |
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Post by Stal At College on Aug 21, 2004 8:51:01 GMT -5
I'm really sorry. I was kind of frustrated about something when I wrote the gay part. I really didn't mean to bring it in like I did. Hey, it's no problem, Al. Like Kiddo said, everyone gets frustrated. And you did it so mildly anyway, throwing one stereotype offhand. I've done worse. Much worse. Hehehe. I nearly did have my behind banned. Anyhow, I do want to disprove the earlier points about that stereotype, though. I think just about everyone here knows I've very strong in my religious beliefs and I hold them as personal beliefs as well. So yeah, I really disagree with the Homosexual lifestyle. But at the same time, I have nothing against the people, just their lifestyle. A few of my friends are bi or lesbian. They know I disagree with 'em, but we still remain good friends. I treat them the same way I treat other people who lead a lifestyle I disagree with (i.e. massive fornication and other things). After all, I couldn't call myself a Christian if I wasn't a human being and loved everyone, despite the fact their lifestyle is different from my own. Christ did, and I'm supposed to be an imitator of Christ. *nod* ...anyhow, I've babbled long enough. I gotta get running. |
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Post by Buddy on Aug 21, 2004 8:55:02 GMT -5
I expected to be offended by the movie... but oddly, I was not!
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Post by The Wanderer on Aug 21, 2004 8:57:42 GMT -5
w00t! I'm an uptight ninny! How awesome! I'm still wondering whether I was being sarcarstic there or not. Intresting movie, though. Okay... Maybe I should have been more specific, instead of making a general statement. Crystal, it was not my intention to single you out. That goes to anyone else out there, that may have been offended by my previous statement. I am usually careful about showing restraint in my posts here, but I guess I slipped up last night. I'm just tired of hearing the same things over and over again. And I am well aware that some issues in the world may never be resolved. What else can I say? But I'm not one of those people that wants to argue all the time. I just want to see a day, where we can all be content about the world we live in. Obviously, I'm no good at debating, since I really hate arguing. Anyway, it is up to the ones who were offended by my previous post as to whether or not they forgive me. I leave that to you. As for anti-americanism... it is easier to put blame on the ones responsible for a horrific or intolerable action, by blaming a country as a whole- even if it was a mere handful of people by contrast of the country's population. So I guess what I'm saying is, any mistake our government makes- the same government that the people can only vote for, and yet have no control over- the rest of the country will pay for their mistakes. I guess it makes alot of sense. Boy... I love being a marked man, even though I didn't do anything to anyone... |
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Post by Crystal on Aug 21, 2004 11:00:08 GMT -5
Okay... Maybe I should have been more specific, instead of making a general statement. Crystal, it was not my intention to single you out. That goes to anyone else out there, that may have been offended by my previous statement. I am usually careful about showing restraint in my posts here, but I guess I slipped up last night. 'Tis okay. ^^ Heh, once you've been referred to by the sterotype of 'f***ing Christians' a few times, you don't get offended that easy. ;D Everyone slips up. Me included... |
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Post by sollunaestrella on Aug 21, 2004 14:29:26 GMT -5
This thread is really intresting... *watches in fascination* I guess what I find most intresting about it is that you can actually talk like this. Over here, sure, you can talk about whether the government is bad or not, but take it too far and you get in trouble. I've never run across any country which bashes it's own government in public or which disapproval of it's own leader is as publicly obvious as the US. It's considered blatant lack of respect here, somewhat along the order of backstabbing and such. You know, "Disapprove of the leader all you want, but talk about it too loudly and you'll be giving yourself and your country a very bad name." That sorta thing. It's probably in the Patriotism chapter in my Moral Education textbook someplace. You know, I really wish a lot of U.S.ians had respect enough for themselves NOT to bash the government. No good comes out of it - I'm sick and tired of hearing people complain about the government day after day or making fun of the latest "Bushism." I don't care if someone criticizes Bush's ideas or decisions, but the only word I have to describe people who lack respect for this country and its leaders - for people so incredibly blinded that all they do is sit around and ridicule the U.S. leaders and everything that they stand for - is an idiot. Whether you live here or not, if you fall under that category... then you are an idiot. I don't care what you think of Bush or anyone else who helps to run this country, but - U.S.ians especially - if you can't respect our government for getting in there and working for you - and if you don't work at correcting the faults that you see here - if all you do is complain and whine and lady dog about it - then I have no use for you. As far as I'm concerned, if you're unhappy with your country, then you should do as much as is within your power to change it, even if it's as simple as voting for someone else. Otherwise, I'm not so sure if I can respect you. The U.S. was designed for people to have that sort of freedom. It was designed for people to have a voice and be able to do something, not for people to have freedom to slander. If a person can't be proud of his government, then can he really be wholly proud of his country? And if he can't be proud of his country, then can he be proud of anything - his home, his family, his work, himself? People outside of this country who hate us sadden me. People inside of this country who hate us sicken me. |
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