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Post by teghan62 on Jun 19, 2004 14:12:41 GMT -5
The problem with that argument... well, then, did God create a murderer to be a murderer? Did God create a rapist to be a rapist? I blame Bible calss for me knowing how to rpely to this - at the end fo the year, we went back to the story of creation. There we talked about how God created humans to be the rulers of His world, and he gave them the choice to do good or evil. A murderer chooses to be a murderer, a rapist chooses to be a rapist. Myself, I believe that you cannot choose to be a homosexual. Otherwiese, many of them would have probably forced themselves to be straight as they've seen what other people do to them, IMO, but that hasn't happened so I believe that they have no choice. |
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Post by sollunaestrella on Jun 19, 2004 14:19:55 GMT -5
To Sol: Sure, homosexuals could "be with" people of the opposite sex, but is that really fair to them? Is it really fair that they have to "get with" people they don't love? And I don't get your point about homosexuality being PURELY a a physical attraction. Are you saying that homosexuals actually fall in love with members of the opposite sex, but don't want to have sex with them (doesn't make any sense to me) or are you saying that they aren't capable of love at all? Well, I read somewhere that it's purely physical attraction. After all, it's your body that's created to be homosexual, not necessarily your heart. I'm not saying that they're incapable of love, either. I'm not sure on the straight facts, but from what I read, I suppose a homosexual could fall in love with someone of the opposite sex - after all, a straight person can fall in love with a particularly unattractive person too. Which also means, I suppose, a straight person could fall in love with someone of their own sex, so I don't know. Honestly, I know I don't necessarily have the facts right, and I just threw what I thought I knew out there, so I could very well be wrong. I was just hoping to help answer Jey's question, not necessarily debate, as I haven't taken a side. ^_~ |
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Post by KittyKadaveral on Jun 19, 2004 17:15:39 GMT -5
I work at Walt Disney World and am in entertainment. Probably a good 85% of males there are gay, I have no clue about the girls. The males, however, are the most funnest (is that a word?) joyful, interesting people I know. When Gay Days happen at the Magic Kingdom every first Saturday of June, it's a true blast. Never will you find so many tourists that are just happy to be there and thankful they're having a good time unlike the vast majority that whine and complain about heat, price of tickets and standing in line. My best friend at work is gay and he's like a brother to me. We're very close and we talk about things I'd never tell anyone else including my own parents and boyfriend. My cousin back in Ohio is gay and the sad thing about that is his father is bitter towards that. Instead of seeing him for what he is (a teacher and a great kid that never got into anything bad like drugs and the like) he just sees him for being gay and that's truly sad. People just should be happy that someone actually FOUND love out there instead of being a rapist per say or a child molester. Even my friends that are living together as a life partner thing are wonderful to be around and I'd honestly prefer to hang with them then any straight men simply because they don't act..well...like men do which is usually a bad thing at times  I can get tons of opinions about my relationship from them that aren't from a woman's "Dump the jerk" or a straight man's "Oh he's just being full of testosterone" I agree about the Creator's children thing...I don't think there was a side note being up there saying hmmm let's throw the human race for a loop and make gays! |
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♥ Jey ♥
Occasional Commenter
My priestess in Ragnarok Online, Zailla! <3
Posts: 10
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Post by ♥ Jey ♥ on Jun 19, 2004 19:43:27 GMT -5
Thanks for all your opinions on this matter.  What irks me most is that sometimes the words 'Gay' and 'Lesbian' are used as derogatory.. Something that shouldn't be. Why, some of my classmates insult each other by screaming, "What, are you a lesbian!?" it just makes me mad that people are insulting each other with those terms. I quite agree with you all. You can't choose to be bi, het, or homo.. |
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Post by Oily on Jun 20, 2004 8:16:21 GMT -5
What irks me most is that sometimes the words 'Gay' and 'Lesbian' are used as derogatory.. Something that shouldn't be. Why, some of my classmates insult each other by screaming, "What, are you a lesbian!?" it just makes me mad that people are insulting each other with those terms. It's using gay as a synonym for stupid that annoys me. "Oh, Spanish is so gay." "Oh, she is just being gay." Some of my friends say this: they aren't bigots, but they just don't think of the offence it causes to some people. I tell them off constantly for it though  I have three bi friends, which I'm perfectly comfortable with. To answer Crystal's point, it's because they're my friends that I feel comfortable with them. I hang around with guys too, but they're my friends so I feel comfortable around them, though still a little wary. But I know my friends very well and I know they don't fancy me, so it doesn't matter to me whether I hug them or not. Despite the fact I'm totally comfortable with that, I was still pretty weirded out when my friend propositioned me. I kind of avoided her for a few days, but I eventually got over it. It's really odd when a friend does that to you...I think that's just who is she is though - very relaxed about what she does with whom and where. At least England seems to breed very liberal Christians. All of my friends totally support homosexual marriage, which gives me hope for the future really. It does tend to be the older generations which are bigoted. |
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Post by Buddy on Jun 20, 2004 8:43:48 GMT -5
It's using gay as a synonym for stupid that annoys me. "Oh, Spanish is so gay." "Oh, she is just being gay." Some of my friends say this: they aren't bigots, but they just don't think of the offence it causes to some people. I tell them off constantly for it though I have three bi friends, which I'm perfectly comfortable with. To answer Crystal's point, it's because they're my friends that I feel comfortable with them. I hang around with guys too, but they're my friends so I feel comfortable around them, though still a little wary. But I know my friends very well and I know they don't fancy me, so it doesn't matter to me whether I hug them or not. Despite the fact I'm totally comfortable with that, I was still pretty weirded out when my friend propositioned me. I kind of avoided her for a few days, but I eventually got over it. It's really odd when a friend does that to you...I think that's just who is she is though - very relaxed about what she does with whom and where. At least England seems to breed very liberal Christians. All of my friends totally support homosexual marriage, which gives me hope for the future really. It does tend to be the older generations which are bigoted. I hear all the time that England is supposed to be a much liberal country than America. |
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Post by thegreenmooseofdoom on Jun 20, 2004 9:30:02 GMT -5
Well, I read somewhere that it's purely physical attraction. After all, it's your body that's created to be homosexual, not necessarily your heart. I'm not saying that they're incapable of love, either. I'm not sure on the straight facts, but from what I read, I suppose a homosexual could fall in love with someone of the opposite sex - after all, a straight person can fall in love with a particularly unattractive person too. Which also means, I suppose, a straight person could fall in love with someone of their own sex, so I don't know. Honestly, I know I don't necessarily have the facts right, and I just threw what I thought I knew out there, so I could very well be wrong. I was just hoping to help answer Jey's question, not necessarily debate, as I haven't taken a side. ^_~ Not sure what book you're reading, but that's very much so untrue. Even heteros can be attracted by members of the same sex, so what makes a homo homosexual is that they can and do fall in love with members of the same gender. Why else would they be getting married and adopting children? |
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Post by Shadyy on Jun 20, 2004 10:41:44 GMT -5
As good as all the theory's about no prejudices and etc. sound, in practice it's not always that simple. I don't really care, as long as poeople find love or something of the sort... But it can get kind of weird when you suddenly here one of your friends has been having a relationship with another girl of your class for about 6 months and you didn't know about it. I wasn't shocked, I was surprised because these two people were in my class, I quite well knew one of them and me and my best friend didn't even know. Then they told the whole class and -basic highschool- an hour later the whole school knew  . Well, yes, some found it discusting, weird blahblah. But in the end they started irritating, because they sat kissing all the time, at school and then asking people if they were shocked. Now THAT, I don't like...start doing things like that and people will get irritated, I'd be just as irritated by any couple that would constantly seem to be re-animating each-other (at school!!!). But the wanting to shock part, makes me really angry grrrrr Anyway, I think if people love each other they should be able to express it freely without being pursued by pointing fingers....same thing for people who don't have the same age...(I'd better not start ranting on that) |
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Post by Princess Ember Mononoke on Jun 20, 2004 18:05:54 GMT -5
What irks me most is that sometimes the words 'Gay' and 'Lesbian' are used as derogatory.. Something that shouldn't be. Why, some of my classmates insult each other by screaming, "What, are you a lesbian!?" it just makes me mad that people are insulting each other with those terms. I HATE that. And it seems that even really nice people do that. And then there are the African American boys, who would KILL anyone who used the n-word, who call random things they don't like - like computers that aren't working for them - the f-a word. It's so disgusting. |
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Post by Patjade on Jun 20, 2004 19:44:53 GMT -5
People need to deal with each other based on WHO they are, not WHAT they are.
This stigma of ostracizing or shunning someone because of who they love is rediculous. Many people fall in love with someone of the opposite sex FOR the purpose of sex. Once that is satisfied, they tend to find out that the personalities aren't compatible.
The thing is, the man-woman arrangement is to serve to propagate the species. Homosexual relationships do not do that, and the "be fruitful and multiply" is then brought into play and used to condemn such relationships...
Now think about this: Since the whole idea behind pairing is the continuation of the genetic line and the species, should we NOT then shun those that are sterile? After all, they cannot produce children, and that is the reason for the pairings, right? How about those with genetic defects? Should they be tagged as "untouchables" as they would obviously produce defective offspring?
This, people, is what it is all about. Society doesn't care about your feelings for the other person, so long as it doesn't look odd to their moral codes.
So what that you marry a half-dozen times and leave kids scattered across 6 states? At least you mated with somebody of the opposite sex!
Do I sound silly? You bet, but this IS the attitude people exhibit.
And I won't even begin to get into people with other problems, like being intersexed or have gender identity problems. I am sure there are those who would take intersexed people out back and have them shot, as they are as defective cattle. I know this for a fact as I have been told that. As for transgendered people, I am told they are mentally off, and with the proper "treatment" they will accept who they are born as.
I think that when it comes to affairs of the heart, people should be allowed to be with someone they love as long as it meets the following criteria:
1. The couple meets the legal age requirements of consenting adults.
2. The couple is able to express, clearly and independently, their feelings for each other. (i.e. pass a marital exam for a license).
The reasons I state the conditions is because it is a way to ascertain the true feelings of the couple without one party unduly influencing the other.
Anyway, I ramble at this point, and I am sure there will be enough questions on this topic that will require clarification...
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Post by KittyKadaveral on Jun 20, 2004 22:25:15 GMT -5
I HATE that. And it seems that even really nice people do that. And then there are the African American boys, who would KILL anyone who used the n-word, who call random things they don't like - like computers that aren't working for them - the f-a word. It's so disgusting. Yes I agree, but yet the some black folks freely call each other the N word without even thinking twice about it and I've heard it said many a times by friends of mine to each other and they just took it as if the word 'moron' or 'bugbrain' or whatever was used instead. My friend at work always teases about his boyfriend(s) and says they're faggots and they usually say the same thing back at him so it usually does get confusing. I also hear (and use myself) the word 'gay' with a definition of being 'stupid' like that movie was so gay or my computer is acting gay today. I myself won't ever use the N word on anyone simply because that word does upset me because I am sure it began out of hate somewhere out there. As I've said before, working with gays gives me an entire new concept on what they think about and how they act on things and they're all great friends of mine and I love them all to death because of their great attitudes and outlook on things. Hey, as long as two people find love and companionship with each other, are of legal age and aren't harming anyone in the process, who cares if it's between the same sex or not? |
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Post by Matt on Jun 21, 2004 9:21:46 GMT -5
Personally, I see nothing wrong at all with homosexuals. Sure, it's different, but so was sleeping in the same bed on TV at one time. Things change, and I think this will to. At least, I hope it does.
Someone mentioned something about the Christian thing, and I go to a Catholic school, so I had to learn about what the Church thought. From what I understand, they're not against people being homosexual, as long as they don't have intercourse, because they can't have children, and God made everyone to have children. Something like that anyway. It doesn't make a lot of sense, and I don't really agree with it, but that's what they think. So, just so you know, they're not totally against homosexuals.
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Post by Buddy on Jun 21, 2004 10:36:39 GMT -5
2. The couple is able to express, clearly and independently, their feelings for each other. (i.e. pass a marital exam for a license). Errr... an exam? I'm not really implying anything, I'm just more curious than anything - what kind of exam would this be? |
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Post by The Wanderer on Jun 22, 2004 0:25:49 GMT -5
I have a friend who is a fundamentalist Christian. For those who dont know what fundamentalism is, its essentially someone who takes every word of the Bible literally. I find nothing wrong with this, of course, but still, it upsets me when my friend refuses to watch "Finding Nemo," just because Ellen Degeneres is in it. He rags on her all the time, and repeatedly says, "If I ever see a homo, I'll kill em." I keep saying, "No... If you do that, it will warrant you a one-way ticket to hell." He now thinks Im a "homo-lover," and that I should go to "a less liberal church." It annoys me when he says this. He insults my church, that bows to the same God, and also believes in Jesus Christ to be his One and Only Son. Why? Why does he think that my church is irrelevant? This is the kind of thing that is driving people away from Christianity. This among other things that is hypocrisy. I dont like homo's. I dont hate them. I have mixed feelings about them. But can honestly say I get rather annoyed when they go around expressing themselves with great pride. It is good you want to be yourself, but please, you're going to add fuel to the fundamentalists to continue flaming you, and that is just going to breed more hatred. I dont want to favor them, and I dont want to hate them. And if that means I go to Hell for "not hating them," then I guess I should embrace my fate...
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Post by Patjade on Jun 22, 2004 5:57:24 GMT -5
Errr... an exam? I'm not really implying anything, I'm just more curious than anything - what kind of exam would this be? An exam to determine that the people wishing to be married understand EXACTLY what marriage is, what it stands for, and what would be required. Each person SHOULD be examined separately to make sure they aren't influenced on the spot by the other person. I guess it would be a form of premarital counselling. The military requires it of all members before they get married. Especially in the case of marrying someone from another country. It actually requires several counselling sessions and classes. |
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I can get tons of opinions about my relationship from them that aren't from a woman's "Dump the jerk" or a straight man's "Oh he's just being full of testosterone" 
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