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Post by KittyKadaveral on Jun 22, 2004 6:29:17 GMT -5
But can honestly say I get rather annoyed when they go around expressing themselves with great pride. It is good you want to be yourself, but please, you're going to add fuel to the fundamentalists to continue flaming you, and that is just going to breed more hatred. So does this mean that they should hide 'in the closet' then and be embarrassed of who and what they are? Should blacks and Native Americans hide too because they are proud of themselves and their heritage? One should always have pride in what they are, but I do know that pride taken too far is stupidity. I will agree on the point that if I'm walking down the street and someone jumps in my face and says HEY check me out, I'm gay! I'll just be like, ok, good for you and roll my eyes and keep walking. People shouldn't have to be afraid of having different likes, loves and beliefs. A person shouldn't have anything to be ashamed of like that. Well, I mean on something positive because I know if I was the kind of person that blew out windows of cars or threw bricks at little old ladies that's not exactly something to be proud of. Hopefully you know what I mean  I like what your friend said about If I ever see a homo I'll kill 'em...Hmmm...so not only is your friend going against the 'we're all God's children' of his religion, but he's also going against the "thou shalt not kill"....::smirks:: and those kind of things are exactly the points I was trying to make earlier about the hypocracy. Another case and point. A while back I was watching some show on the Discovery Channel and they were doing a little thing on the Bible. I'm interested in learning new things so I watched it. They did say that through the ages those stories were passed down for centuries to (as someone said on here) teach people lessons on right and wrong and that the Jesus stuff was more stories by him (or someone I forgot entirely what they said) to teach the same things, love your fellow man etc. My question though is if so many people made the book who exactly wrote it? My mom is a good person like my dad to try and get into good debates about things that people insist are so right and only one way, but they have nothing to back it up with. She did ask if someone were to take the original manuscripts for Lord of the Rings, but them in a cave for a few hundred years and someone found them would they end up being a Bible of those times? Would people think those things really happened? If you go and insist that the Bible is 100% true, then I want you to kindly tell me where the dinosaurs are? I want to know where cavemen ended up? I want to know why people think Jesus is only seen as a white man with blonde hair and blue eyes even though the Bible takes place in the Middle East (Africa more like it, but for some reason you say Africa people instantly only think of black and forget about the Egyptians and Moroccans etc). It's a very good story book and that's all I see it as. I don't see it as something that'll burn my hand if I touch it and say something negative about it. I don't see it as my life history and I don't see why it should be shoved in people's faces in the wrong way. Like I said, there's no footnotes in there that say this book only applies to certain people, gays, blacks, non-Christians get out and go die someplace else. The book has common grounds with other 'laws and rules.' The 10 Commandments is just common sense anywhere it would seem. Take it with a grain of salt and make your own decisions. Be proud of what you are, be yourself was an old old OLD ad campaign when I was little. I am sure the motto can still stand true now and no one has the right to tell someone else to hide being gay when that is just how they are. |
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Post by Crystal on Jun 22, 2004 7:22:02 GMT -5
I want to know why people think Jesus is only seen as a white man with blonde hair and blue eyes even though the Bible takes place in the Middle East (Africa more like it, but for some reason you say Africa people instantly only think of black and forget about the Egyptians and Moroccans etc). . . . WHAT?? How in the world did THAT one come about? As for the second part of that quote - To be honest, when people say 'Africa', I think of brown, not black... it took me quite a while when I was a small girl to differenciate Africa from India. Yes, the Bible was written over a period of many years by many people. If you accept the theological interpretation, God spoke through those people, each writing one book of the entire thing, which has been compiled, so to speak. If you DON'T want to accept the theological interpretation - then nothing I say will make you agree with me, simply because you don't want to. |
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Post by sollunaestrella on Jun 22, 2004 7:54:47 GMT -5
Well, I mean on something positive because I know if I was the kind of person that blew out windows of cars or threw bricks at little old ladies that's not exactly something to be proud of. Hopefully you know what I mean The problem with that argument is that not everybody sees it as a positive thing. And, obviously, pride can go too far. Sometimes what I see with both "gay pride" or even racial pride is that they think they're better than everyone else even when they're just as good. What if you were born with a condition in your brain that you couldn't help that marred your ability to distinguish between right and wrong - such as a personality disorder? That's who you are - should you be proud of it? You were born that way. Why should you go to a therapist to try and protect yourself and those around you? It's who you were meant to be! You might say that homosexuality only affects those who are homosexuals, but, just like everything else - drug addiction, heterosexuality, a person's various likes and dislikes, it affects everyone in some way, whether positively or negatively. Being gay isn't a positive thing, and neither is being black, white, or Native American - or anything else. It's not positive, but it's not negative either, really - you couldn't help it. Your heritage invoves good things and bad things no matter who you are. I'm white. Supposedly, I did horrible things to other people through my heritage. You know what? I'm still proud of it because my ancestors did great things too. But I am ashamed of other things they did. No other race is any different than mine. It's all human history, not white history, black history, or gay history. I like what your friend said about If I ever see a homo I'll kill 'em...Hmmm...so not only is your friend going against the 'we're all God's children' of his religion, but he's also going against the "thou shalt not kill"....::smirks:: and those kind of things are exactly the points I was trying to make earlier about the hypocracy. Another case and point. A while back I was watching some show on the Discovery Channel and they were doing a little thing on the Bible. I'm interested in learning new things so I watched it. They did say that through the ages those stories were passed down for centuries to (as someone said on here) teach people lessons on right and wrong and that the Jesus stuff was more stories by him (or someone I forgot entirely what they said) to teach the same things, love your fellow man etc. My question though is if so many people made the book who exactly wrote it? My mom is a good person like my dad to try and get into good debates about things that people insist are so right and only one way, but they have nothing to back it up with. She did ask if someone were to take the original manuscripts for Lord of the Rings, but them in a cave for a few hundred years and someone found them would they end up being a Bible of those times? Would people think those things really happened? If you go and insist that the Bible is 100% true, then I want you to kindly tell me where the dinosaurs are? I want to know where cavemen ended up? I want to know why people think Jesus is only seen as a white man with blonde hair and blue eyes even though the Bible takes place in the Middle East (Africa more like it, but for some reason you say Africa people instantly only think of black and forget about the Egyptians and Moroccans etc). It's a very good story book and that's all I see it as. I don't see it as something that'll burn my hand if I touch it and say something negative about it. I don't see it as my life history and I don't see why it should be shoved in people's faces in the wrong way. Like I said, there's no footnotes in there that say this book only applies to certain people, gays, blacks, non-Christians get out and go die someplace else. The book has common grounds with other 'laws and rules.' The 10 Commandments is just common sense anywhere it would seem. Take it with a grain of salt and make your own decisions. Be proud of what you are, be yourself was an old old OLD ad campaign when I was little. I am sure the motto can still stand true now and no one has the right to tell someone else to hide being gay when that is just how they are. But much of the Bible (particularly the Old Testament) has been proven. People have found accounts of the exact same events written by different groups of people - obviously with a very different perspective, but it has proven the history in the Bible to be very, very accurate. So the Bible is not just a "storybook." It's a little bit amusing, though, how a lot of people seem to think that you're a stupid person who can't think for him/herself if you believe the Bible. I've thought about the Bible, and that is precisely why I believe it. And I'm proud of that and that is myself. EDIT: I'm also confused about where you got the white, blonde hair blue eyes thing. I've never seen that in my life. I've always seen Jesus portrayed as very Jewish-looking, which makes sense to me. |
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Post by Buddy on Jun 22, 2004 9:22:32 GMT -5
. . . WHAT?? How in the world did THAT one come about? As for the second part of that quote - To be honest, when people say 'Africa', I think of brown, not black... it took me quite a while when I was a small girl to differenciate Africa from India. Yes, the Bible was written over a period of many years by many people. If you accept the theological interpretation, God spoke through those people, each writing one book of the entire thing, which has been compiled, so to speak. If you DON'T want to accept the theological interpretation - then nothing I say will make you agree with me, simply because you don't want to. Crystal, he's right. In that day and age, people with white skin, blue eyes, and blonde hair didn't exist in the Middle East. So, unless it were through some amazing fluke, it would be impossible. Although, I'm not really sure how many people pictures Jesus as a white, blonde-haired, blue-eyed person... |
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Post by sollunaestrella on Jun 22, 2004 10:22:41 GMT -5
Although, I'm not really sure how many people pictures Jesus as a white, blonde-haired, blue-eyed person... I think that's she was going "WHAT??" about. ^_~ Although I could be wrong. |
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Post by thegreenmooseofdoom on Jun 22, 2004 10:23:25 GMT -5
Being gay isn't a positive thing, and neither is being black, white, or Native American - or anything else. It's not positive, but it's not negative either, really - you couldn't help it. Your heritage invoves good things and bad things no matter who you are. I'm white. Supposedly, I did horrible things to other people through my heritage. You know what? I'm still proud of it because my ancestors did great things too. But I am ashamed of other things they did. No other race is any different than mine. It's all human history, not white history, black history, or gay history. That is true, but it's also good to take pride in who you are sometimes. I mean, don't flaunt it or anything, but you should be proud of who you are and your heritage and your life's decisions and all that. |
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Post by Crystal on Jun 22, 2004 10:32:55 GMT -5
Crystal, he's right. In that day and age, people with white skin, blue eyes, and blonde hair didn't exist in the Middle East. So, unless it were through some amazing fluke, it would be impossible. Although, I'm not really sure how many people pictures Jesus as a white, blonde-haired, blue-eyed person... Umm... who's he? I think that's she was going "WHAT??" about. ^_~ Although I could be wrong. *nods* What did you think I was saying, Buddy? *is puzzled* |
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Post by The Wanderer on Jun 22, 2004 10:45:01 GMT -5
So does this mean that they should hide 'in the closet' then and be embarrassed of who and what they are? Should blacks and Native Americans hide too because they are proud of themselves and their heritage? One should always have pride in what they are, but I do know that pride taken too far is stupidity. I will agree on the point that if I'm walking down the street and someone jumps in my face and says HEY check me out, I'm gay! I'll just be like, ok, good for you and roll my eyes and keep walking. People shouldn't have to be afraid of having different likes, loves and beliefs. A person shouldn't have anything to be ashamed of like that. Well, I mean on something positive because I know if I was the kind of person that blew out windows of cars or threw bricks at little old ladies that's not exactly something to be proud of. Hopefully you know what I mean I like what your friend said about If I ever see a homo I'll kill 'em...Hmmm...so not only is your friend going against the 'we're all God's children' of his religion, but he's also going against the "thou shalt not kill"....::smirks:: and those kind of things are exactly the points I was trying to make earlier about the hypocracy. Another case and point. A while back I was watching some show on the Discovery Channel and they were doing a little thing on the Bible. I'm interested in learning new things so I watched it. In the case of my friend, I was just using him as an example of the rift this whole debate is causing in Christianity, and other religions. Because I disagreed with him, he insulted me, and now thinks I like homosexuals. To think, just one sentence uttered from my mouth set him off, and made him say things like that. But understand that we're ALL our own hypocrites at some point, and of course that will hurt the cause one stands for. So one cant say Christianity isnt completely wrong. I mean its not a bad thing when they extend their hands to help the poor. Its not a bad thing when they make the community a better place. And its certainly not a bad thing for them to seek peace, and understanding. And if a few Christians dont want to share the peace, and understanding with homosexuals, then dont let them speak for the entire belief. Believe what you want to believe. That is what it is all about. Its all about choice. I made my choice; and that is to not hold anything against any other Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc. And that comes regardless of race, color, or sexuality. Even if they are gay, I wont hold anything against them if they bow to the same God, and believe in Jesus as His Son. And considering I am a southern-white-straight-Christian, those are words that would probably get me ostracized and persecuted. And as for the whole "free-expression" of homosexuality, which I mentioned earlier, I meant that there are those who casually say, "Im gay." in a conversation, and thus do people move on with their lives. And then there are people who dress in drag, and get in your face about it. There is a fine line between being proud of who you are, and then shoving it down people's throats. That is what I was talking about. You can be proud of who you are, but moderation would be wise in all respects. I wont mind those who casually admit they are gay, or lesbian, (which is why I didnt care that Ellen Degeneres was in "Finding Nemo.") Its not like she got up on screen, and said: "Im a lesbian. And there is nothing you fools can do about it." As long as they just mention it once or twice, and leave it at that, then I cant object, because they are doing me no harm, and that leads me to just drop it. But if they remind me everyday of their difference to everyone else, then that will bother me. So my own stance on homosexuality is this: -I would never kill or persecute a homosexual, because that is a sin, and there is no point in doing that. -I won't hold their homosexuality against them. If that is the way they were born, then I will let them deal with it on their own, since there is no way I can understand what they go through. That is all I have to say about this. I shouldnt have become involved with this, but maybe the thing that motivated me to post here, was my being upset at my friend's opinion. But as I said before, dont let this sort of thing make you think less of the religion I believe in. |
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Post by Buddy on Jun 22, 2004 10:54:22 GMT -5
*nods* What did you think I was saying, Buddy? *is puzzled* Ohh! I thought you meant "What?!" as in , "What?! Jesus wasn't white with blonde hair and blue eyes?!" Heh... *is dumb*  |
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Post by Crystal on Jun 22, 2004 11:09:20 GMT -5
Ohh! I thought you meant "What?!" as in , "What?! Jesus wasn't white with blonde hair and blue eyes?!" Heh... *is dumb* ROFLMAO! XD |
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Post by ghostision on Jun 22, 2004 23:23:09 GMT -5
Although, I'm not really sure how many people pictures Jesus as a white, blonde-haired, blue-eyed person... I've been to churches a few time, all the pictures I see of him fit Kitty's description, except his hair is often brownish... but then again, I haven't seen that many. |
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Jessica is in da Times
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Post by Jessica is in da Times on Jun 23, 2004 3:03:29 GMT -5
Hmm. Again, I'm ALL alone.
I don't mean I'm homophobic. I mean I have problems with this. I'm very scientific. More scientific than I am christian I believe. But I'm still christian, and it is against my religion. But again, I'm torn. I don't want to "defy God" but I don't see what's so bad about it.
But on the other hand, being scientific, I could also look at it as against nature. Nature intended this system of sexuality so that living multi-celled creatures could reproduce. It's unnatural. But on the other hand, it's been going on since forever. Animals go the other way all the time.
(Note: I realise that I went on the other hand over 3 hands....)
My parents have BIGGER problems with homosexuality. That's my biggest one. They'd be crushed if say I said I was les (which I'm not). But we're all people, I still don't see how it matters. But I just have this instinct that tells me that it's... well wrong. I know I can't think that, or shun people for it, and I don't. I just have a litle voice inside that's trying to make me.
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Post by Oily on Jun 23, 2004 13:31:46 GMT -5
Hmm. Again, I'm ALL alone. I don't mean I'm homophobic. I mean I have problems with this. I'm very scientific. More scientific than I am christian I believe. But I'm still christian, and it is against my religion. But again, I'm torn. I don't want to "defy God" but I don't see what's so bad about it. But on the other hand, being scientific, I could also look at it as against nature. Nature intended this system of sexuality so that living multi-celled creatures could reproduce. It's unnatural. But on the other hand, it's been going on since forever. Animals go the other way all the time. (Note: I realise that I went on the other hand over 3 hands....) My parents have BIGGER problems with homosexuality. That's my biggest one. They'd be crushed if say I said I was les (which I'm not). But we're all people, I still don't see how it matters. But I just have this instinct that tells me that it's... well wrong. I know I can't think that, or shun people for it, and I don't. I just have a litle voice inside that's trying to make me. Well, I don't think being Christian and not being homophobic are mutually exclusive You can be a good Christian, and still support homosexuality or actually be homosexual. All of my friends, Christian or not, are totally for same-sex marriage  I've read a lot of theories about homosexuality and biology. One theory suggested the purpose of homosexual couples was to nurture, and as a natural way of population control. (NOTE - these are unproved theories that I'm just mentioning for sake of interest.) The nagging feeling that it's wrong - well, a lot of homophobia has been around for many years in many societies and I think it can be quite deep rooted. But I think in a lot of younger generations in the more liberal countries, homophobia will slowly die out. It's natural to be afraid of what we don't see as "normal." I think all the -isms - racism, sexism, etc spring from the same kind of thing. |
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Post by Buddy on Jun 23, 2004 15:07:50 GMT -5
Both posts have been deleted.
People, please, PLEASE, do not give me a reason for me, or anyone else, to lock this thread! I don't want to, but I will! Don't test me!
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Post by eatm1ce on Jun 23, 2004 20:57:49 GMT -5
I fully support homosexuality, and I mean, come on, if you don't then you won't be very happy (wrote Harry at first... haha) with the world today. There are SO many (though its NOT a bad thing) BiSexuals, Lesbians, and Gays in the world today. MOST of my friends support same-sex marriages, except there's this one, and it bugs me. Yes, I know that people should have their own decision and I RESPECT those decisions. But for Social Studies class this year, we had to write about if we are Pro/Con Same-Sex marriages, and when one of my friends told me she was against it, I said "You mean that you think there shouldn't be same sex marriages?" and she literally SHRIEKED in disgust and went "NO, THAT'S STUPIDLY DISGUSTING!" >_< That just tinkled me off so much. I respect that she doesn't think there should be same sex marriages, but that she was in DISGUST and SCREAMING about it, is in itself, DISGUSTING.
I also hate when people use Gay and Lesbian as 'bad' terms. When I say something stupid, some of my friends go "UGH, YOU GAYLORD!" or "Are you a freaking lesbo!?" and when some of my friends don't like stuff, or see stupid things, they go, "Man, is that gay."
One other thing, before I shut up is this: Say, if I mention that I think a girl is really pretty (Yknow, those way to pretty to be allowed girls you see at the mall, or whatever?) I have some friends that look at me funny and go "Ugh, you're a freaking lesbo!?" And I hate that!
Oh yea, something I've been wondering for a while. Girls can say to their friends or whatever "Oh, you look sooo pretty today!" and what not. But if guys compliment eachother, theyre said to be 'gaylords' or 'fags.' >_> I guess it's illegal for guys to think other guys look good?
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