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Post by Duke Pikachu on Oct 8, 2021 17:39:42 GMT -5
Not sure if it was talked about here or not, but I remember seeing a headline a little while ago that somebody did exactly that: Take money from people buying NFTs and then immediately peace out afterwards. I made quick mention of it on page 2: As my contribution to this thread, a recent scam involving NFTs showing just how worthless they are and how stupid are the people who participate in them. Now that we know have a "roadmap" (hugh), here are some more additional thoughts I had posted on JN: There Even Being A Roadmap:Those part of the video game community are probably facepalming right about now. For those who aren't, recent years triple-A video companies have been trying to sell major "live service" games. These games are often released with very little content in order to rush it out the door as soon as possible, promising more content by showing us a, you guessed it, "roadmap". Long story short, it doesn't work out. Now in this case I imagine it'll not workout due to difference reasons, but lesson is the same: never trust a roadmap. TNT's Involvement: I would like to think that first line is being misleading. " Brought to you by the Neopets team" simply could mean " the Neopets team will agree this is a Neopets-based product". It's just to make themselves look legitimate. Stage 1: * So what are these PvP and PvE gameplay they're going on about? Are you making your own Battledome? NeoQuest? Treasure Keepers? Petpet Park (or that cancelled Neopets MMO that resembled it)? Island Builder? What's the point? I thought NFTers just wanted to collect the images and that's all the investment they wanted to do with them (as that's all they see them as, an investment). Or do they still really think any users on the site would be interested in this (and willing to pay the high entrance fee)? * So they're also selling what I guess are land tiles in the PvE? Don't know what else they mean by parcels of land. For an NFT they're setting up pretty lofty goals for a community who just only cares about collecting images hoping to sell them later. * What social interactions do you mean (beyond the PvP thing, otherwise you're repeating a point)? It has to be more than neomail or a live chat. Are there going to be guest missions you can from a group to adventure with? Let players make guilds? Are there going to be items and you can gift items? * So on the land users bought they can make their own game with assets. So you're going to have a game maker kit? What is this? Who is this for? Stage 2:So they want people to buy NFT to make games to giveaway NFT... wouldn't that devalue existing NFT if more are made and just given away instead of sold? It's like I'm listening to a rambling of a business exec who has no idea what game they're making so they're just saying any concept that comes to mind without thinking how it would connect together. Stage 3:And the kicker, after doing all this they want to fully separate from Neopets and fully controlled by the NFTers which would make themselves a competitor to the Neopets site using the same IP... and JS is alright with that? That's like Nintendo letting Sony make a Pokemon game for the PlayStation with the possibility that Sony can continue making their Pokemon spinoff without any involvement from Nintendo. Future Plans No Legally Binding: Oh, of course, what scam wouldn't be complete without one of these? You buy into Neopets NFT yet none of these promises come to fruition? Well, despite hyping it all up, we didn't say it would happen so jokes on you! Thanks for your money sucker! Maybe next time you want a Neopet make one for FREE on the site, HA HA! Absolutely disgusting.
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Post by Gelquie on Oct 8, 2021 19:03:08 GMT -5
I made another Free NeoNFT (I edited in a description of the other one I made since I remember it). (Image decription: A blue-grey moehog donning long curly red hair with many flowers tied into said flowing locks. The moehog is wearing a black... kimono? (Possibly not that). The outfit is mostly black, but decorated with lines of flowers, mostly small but occasionally spaced with larger flower patterns. On their forepaws are bear slippers. On their back paws are something wooden, like buckets or a peg leg. The moehog's expression is one of sadness.) Actually, I respect this one. They're doing their own thing and are doing their best. They're just unhappy to be used as an NFT prop, and I truly don't blame them. Anyway, yeah, the more I hear about Neopets Metaverse and their involvements and what they've done, the more I'm side-eyed at them. I know they're not technically TNT, but the fact that TNT doesn't denounce them or do anything about them is also disquieting. (On a nostalgia level, it's also surprising considering how this is the site that taught me so much about scams and how to avoid them, and yet here we are.) In addition to this being a huge scam (both in the scam potential and NFTs inherently being a scam), I'm also someone who's highly concerned with the negative environmental effects involved with NFTs. I know a reason environmental issues get shafted (as they shouldn't) is because usually people are getting something out of it, even if it's in the short term. With NFTs, I'm staring at it and what they are, and I'm scratching my head regarding how there's any benefit--tangible or not--to this besides being used as a scam for money. Even if crypto and NFT producers did go more green and use more environmental sources of energy... I just don't think NFT is a good use of it. Disclaimer: Anything crypto-related never made much sense to me anyway. It just feels way too intangible and disconnected for me to see it as legit. (Though perhaps that's a topic for Discussion and Debates.) So with my feelings there, NFTs make even less sense to me.
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Post by Allison on Oct 8, 2021 20:25:08 GMT -5
Okay. So I want to be sure I understand this.
1. Neopets Metaverse is a completely separate site from neopets.com 2. So Neopets.com will continue to exist after this project starts, as is. 3. The "pay to play" aspect of the Metaverse is just for the Metaverse site, and doesn't mean all aspects of Neopets.com will be "pay to play."
HOWEVER Besides the obvious issues that have been mentioned (no one wants this, it's a terrible idea in general, but especially for a site marketed to kids, the LBGTQ+ (and other) slurs, they blatenly stole from "Dress to Impress" which means you could make these EXACT SAME images on your own, etc.)
1. There are concerns that, despite what has been said, tat "The Neopets Team" listed in the roadmap could be the actual TNT. 2. There are concerns that, despite what has been said, that site content will be pushed back because of the NFTs/Metaverse 3. There are concerns that, despite what has been said (note a theme yet?), that this is not the beginning of the end of Neopets, but rather the middle of end of the end, because of everything mentioned above. 4. There are concerns that this WILL eventually lead to 3 above, where Neopets itself becomes "pay to play" for basically everything.
Is that a.... decent summary?
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Post by Blueysicle on Oct 8, 2021 21:29:53 GMT -5
If anyone would like to give their two cents on the idea of backing up the Neopian Times and other creative contests that I brought up last night, I made a seperate thread about it here. I have a lot of uncertainty over the ethics of doing such a thing, so I'd really appreciate feedback! While I'm here, my previous Jellyneo NFT went poof, so looks like I'll have to dish out another ~150 Monopoly dollars for another. A bit uglier than my last one - that's more in the spirit of the whole situation, I think.
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Post by June Scarlet on Oct 8, 2021 21:34:47 GMT -5
Okay. So I want to be sure I understand this. 1. Neopets Metaverse is a completely separate site from neopets.com 2. So Neopets.com will continue to exist after this project starts, as is. 3. The "pay to play" aspect of the Metaverse is just for the Metaverse site, and doesn't mean all aspects of Neopets.com will be "pay to play." This was the understanding as of the last TNT update. Since then, Metaverse has released a roadmap saying they plan to fork the current Neopets experience and eventually replace Neopets.com with Metaverse, which is your fourth point of possible concern. I am against Neopet NFTs, but I was reluctant to say it was the worst thing Neopets has ever done (remember that time much of TNT was laid off? That was pretty bad). But with the release of this roadmap, I think this is true now. *** If you're particularly fond of your NFTopet, I'd recommend downloading and saving it to your computer. Just as with real NFTs, there's always the risk that it won't last forever.
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Post by charming thievery on Oct 9, 2021 0:42:19 GMT -5
If you're particularly fond of your NFTopet, I'd recommend downloading and saving it to your computer. Just as with real NFTs, there's always the risk that it won't last forever. Wouldn’t that be just the perfect final demonstration of what a scam this all is if JN just completely deletes all these NTFopets afterwards?
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Post by Blueysicle on Oct 9, 2021 13:35:20 GMT -5
While we've all been making fun of the possible price of the NFTs, it does highlight another big problem that adds to the list of why this is a terrible move. See, the great thing about Neopets is that it was free. Sure, there's the whole Neocash aspect and there's plenty of valid debate to be had on the merits of how its integrated into the site. But there's still nothing stopping anyone from playing Neopets for years on end without ever buying Neocash. And that means that it was a game that anyone could enjoy, especially those that couldn't afford more expensive games. But the thing about these NFTs is that it's essentially creating a $150 entry fee. The whole ~*pay to earn*~ thing is irrelevant. Most people don't have $150 to burn upfront for a randomized jpeg that you can't interact with and might not even like just to begin playing the game at all. Which means that the only people that are going to be able to play are the rich and those with phenomenally bad spending habits. Everyone else -especially poor people- gets shut out. (I was about to say I was surprised that no one's made that precise point, but I did see someone elsewhere make it, so I guess the above is just me echoing the sentiment in my own words. EDIT: And I did just see that Pikachu made the point about it being an entry fee a bit up further - keeping track of everything everyone is saying about this whole dumpster fire isn't easy. xD )
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Post by Killix on Oct 9, 2021 13:50:28 GMT -5
Well, any amount is too much, if you ask me. NFTs are worthless, intangible non-goods. If you wanna toss money away, you're better off purchasing digital content for a mobile game that gets shut down a month later, 'cause then at least you'd still have the experience of playing a game.
I was thinking about this earlier, and I think if they went with a cheaper price, it would actually be more insidious - a more accessible entry point would further entice children to buy into their worthless jpegs. X_x
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Post by Huntress on Oct 9, 2021 14:54:55 GMT -5
Well, there's no solid word on an actual price tag yet. What boggles my mind is their decision to go with the Random Crap Generator here - I'm guessing the aim was to create the desirability of a lootbox, but. I mean. *gestures at all the gorgeous NFTopets on display here* A combination of lower price plus better thought out image creation would make it much more dangerous, agreed. What we're looking at right now is the first attempted tier of a pyramid scheme being set up at the expense of cryptobros, while everyone else is all "y'all realize that there'll never be an aftermarket to form the rest of the pyramid, guys, right? Right?"
Unfortunately, it's coming with a big flaming heaping of brand and trust damage to a site we're all very fond of and have poured rather a lot of emotion and commitment into, so here we are.
It's been pointed out in the depths of Reddit that the entire point of virtual petsites is already virtual ownership. That's what the servers of a given site are for - to verify and track our ownership of pets, items and everything else. Putting the same thing on a blockchain would only serve a discernible purpose in a decentralized setting, where the blockchain takes over the purposes the servers already serve, 'cept with more rainforest burned. So it makes sense for them to publish a roadmap to dangle the promises of actual future usability before the cryptobros. The catch here is that for a community like that to grow organically, they'd need a, well, functional Neopets community, which is currently standing on this side of the picket line with torches and pitchforks.
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Post by Fraze on Oct 9, 2021 15:09:48 GMT -5
So after looking at that roadmap more, it... started to make sense? Like, it's absolutely an evil corporate sellout and anathema to the site as it's always been, but I can see what they're trying to do. The "selling parcels of land" bit looks a loooot like the Earth 2 project that was dominating our (or at least my) Facebook ads several months back. (Which, surprise surprise, is shaping up to be a massive scam. Not gonna link to the project directly because I don't wanna give them the traffic.)
Then the whole thing with user-submitted content... honestly could be awesome in a very very different context. They're basically trying to remake Second Life, with a crypto-ey and Neopets-ey twist and with the enticement of "you can earn real money from this if you work hard enough!" It's a merging of the worst parts of predatory mobile game design and cryptobro toxicity, but it's honestly a pretty innovative concept. Evil, but innovative. I'm kinda impressed that someone in a JS corporate office had the Hubrid's Odial Spheres to go through with it.
Of course, that's all assuming they wouldn't just cut and run after the NFT release, whiiiich is still the most likely outcome.
Honestly, what they're claiming they want to do based on that roadmap would be much better accomplished if they started with a completely original property, rather than cribbing off of a petsite that's old enough to drink.
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Post by Duke Pikachu on Oct 10, 2021 0:44:39 GMT -5
If you're particularly fond of your NFTopet, I'd recommend downloading and saving it to your computer. Just as with real NFTs, there's always the risk that it won't last forever. Wouldn’t that be just the perfect final demonstration of what a scam this all is if JN just completely deletes all these NTFopets afterwards? Honestly I think JN deleting these are very likely cause they need the server space, so if you like the anti-NFT token you made better save it on Imgur or wherever you host your images. Of course, that's all assuming they wouldn't just cut and run after the NFT release, whiiiich is still the most likely outcome. The thing with that, it wouldn't be JS doing it. It would be Solana, the "eco friendlier (except not really)" blockchain company they partnered with. One day they're selling Neopet NFTs (which I'm going to start calling NFTpets) to any suckers they can catch, the next day these new proud NFTpet owners get the message that "Solana has vanished with your money" and all they have left is a worthless jpeg. The JS higher-ups probably put in the contract that if anything happens to Solana they are not responsible so they get away scot free (along with any money they were able to pocket before their partner in crime bailed); which would at least mean the Neopets site dodged a bullet of getting sued to oblivion. But yeah, sadly the brand would get hit with a bad reputation. The only way the Neopets brand is walking away from this with the less damage possible is if the NFTpets just don't sell enough (sadly it'll sell some because there's always some fool looking to be departed from their money) to justify keeping the partnership if no profit is being made. Not sure what would happen to the NFTers who were dumb enough to buy a NFTpet at that point, if Solana wants to pretend to be the reputable company they say they are they'd would replace the NFTpets with NFT of another brand they're working with, thus completely wiping out this mistake of a venture. THOUGH more likely they'll be stuck with the NFTpet and most/all would shrug another scam they fell for, throw it upon the jpeg scams they have, and keep on being an idiot looking for the next NFT scam to fall for.
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Post by Lord Hayati on Oct 10, 2021 13:55:37 GMT -5
They've tripled down on their cruddy behavior. putting underneath spoilers because I'll need a stiff drink If I have to read their tweets again.
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Post by Duke Pikachu on Oct 10, 2021 14:29:34 GMT -5
Wow, this is exactly following in the behavior of scammers who are trying to get their scheme off the ground.
* At first when opposition rise up they try being passive aggressive. Just saying "oh, well these people aren't the ones we're doing this for" and "they don't know what they're talking about".
* They then try to ignore it, keeping the little community that has fallen for it in a little community. If they're partnered with a bigger corporation, they'll have the bigger corporation try acting as their mouthpiece assuring this is all "official" and on the up-and-up. This is either because the corporation is totally okay with the scam and just want money (the big wigs forcing someone under them to make the announcement and take the bullet) or they don't know know and will be totally surprised when the "partner" runs off with the money. Or both!
* When that doesn't work and the opposition becomes larger and making more people aware, they start doing this. Going from passive aggressive to straight-up aggressive. And it's never mature or elegant, it's always childish; usually via internet memes. The above image there is implying anyone against NFT (aka all of us) are neckbeards. Yeah, if your counterargument to complaints is internet memes than you're on the wrong side of history.
Heck, who knows, is Solana keeps showing this much hostility toward the Neopians it MIGHT pressure JS to go "you know what, they keep kicking the hornets nest, let's end our partnership"... though they'll probably then just find another blockchain company cause they still want to do the NFTpets.
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Post by Fraze on Oct 10, 2021 14:55:55 GMT -5
They've tripled down on their cruddy behavior. putting underneath spoilers because I'll need a stiff drink If I have to read their tweets again. The most genuinely concerning part of that was the memes. Using Pepe the Frog and whatever that neckbeard one was called is a dogwhistle if ever there was one. They know exactly who they're actually catering to with this, and it absolutely isn't Neopets users. EDIT: Also had to look it up, but apparently WAGMI="We're All Gonna Make It".
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Post by Celestial on Oct 10, 2021 15:17:11 GMT -5
I've been vaguely lurking on this thread, but I do not feel like I have enough to say about it beyond "NFTs bad". So I've mostly just been lurking.
That thread has been one of the most cringe-inducing things I have seen for a good while. Putting aside the obviously scammy content, their use of memes is a mix of the worst of 4chan doing a "how do you do fellow kids" routine. I also do not get the impression they know anything about the current demographic of Neopets.
What are they trying to do? Who are they appealing to this? I am genuinely so confused.
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