Sexism in Geekdom

[Komori]

SPOILER: Click to show

I want to tell you a story.

A few years ago, I was dating a girl who was decidedly not nerd curious. She tolerated my geeky interests with a certain bemused air but definitely didn't participate in ‘em… not even setting foot inside a comic store on new comic day. She'd wait outside until I was done… which could be a while, since I was friends with several of the staff.

She came in the store exactly once, after I'd explained that no, it's a pretty friendly place… well lit, spacious, organized and with helpful – and clearly identified – staff members who were willing to bend over backwards to make sure their customers were satisfied.
She was in there for less than 4 minutes before one mouth-breathing troglodyte began alternately staring at her boobs – evidently hoping that x-ray vision could develop spontaneously – and berating her for daring to comment on the skimpy nature of the costumes – in this case, Lady Death and Witchblade. She fled the premises, never to return.

When both the manager and I explained to him in no uncertain terms as to what he did wrong he shrugged his shoulders. "Hey, I was just trying to help you guys! She couldn't understand that chicks can be tough and sexy! Not my fault she's a chauvinist," he said.

And that was when I shot him, your honor.

So with that example in mind, let's talk about a subject I've touched on before: Male Privilege and how it applies to geeks and – more importantly – geek girls.

MALE PRIVILEGE: WHAT IS IT, EXACTLY?

I don't think I'm breaking any news or blowing minds when I point out that geek culture as a whole is predominantly male. Not to say that women aren't making huge inroads in science fiction/fantasy fandom, gaming, anime and comics… but it's still a very male culture. As such, it caters to the predominantly male audience that makes it up. This, in turn leads to the phenomenon known as male privilege: the idea that men – most often straight, white men – as a whole, get certain privileges and status because of their gender.

(Obvious disclaimer: I'm a straight white man.)

In geek culture, this manifests in a number of ways. The most obvious is in the portrayal of female characters in comics, video games and movies. Batman: Arkham City provides an excellent example.

To start with, we have three of the male characters of Arkham City:
[pics of Batman, Joker, The Doctor]
Here we have the brooding vigilante, the psycho ICP fan and The Doctor

Then we have three of the female characters:
[pics of Catwoman, Harley, and Ivy]
Here we have the dominatrix, the crazy hooker and Exotic Fanservice Girl...

Notice how the differences in how they're portrayed and costumed? The men are fully clothed and deadly serious. They are clearly defined: the mighty hero, the ominous villains.

The women are all about sex, sex, sexy sextimes. With maybe a little villainy thrown in for flavor. They may be characters, but they're also sexual objects to be consumed.

I will pause now for the traditional arguments from my readers: these characters are all femme fatales in the comics, all of the characters in the Arkham games are over-the-top, the men are just as exaggerated/sexualized/objectified as the women. Got all of that out of your systems? Good.

Because that reaction is exactly what I'm talking about.

Y'see, one of the issues of male privilege as it applies to fandom is the instinctive defensive reaction to any criticism that maybe, just maybe, [things are messed up], yo. Nobody wants to acknowledge that a one-sided (and one-dimensional) portrayal of women is the dominant paradigm in gaming; the vast majority of female characters are sexual objects. If a girl wants to see herself represented in video games, she better get used to the idea of being the prize at the bottom of the cereal box. If she wants to see herself as a main character, then it's time to get ready for a parade of candyfloss costumes where nipple slips are only prevented by violating the laws of physics. The number of games with competent female protagonists who wear more than the Victoria's Secret Angels are few and far between.

The idea that perhaps the way women are portrayed in fandom is aleetle sexist is regularly met with denials, justifications and outright dismissal of the issue. So regularly, in fact, that there's a Bingo card covering the most common responses. Part of the notion of male privilege in fandom is that nothing is wrong with fandom and that suggestions that it might benefit from some diversity is treated as a threat.


But what is that threat, exactly?

In this case, the threat is that – ultimately – fandom won't cater to guys almost to exclusion… that gays, lesbians, racial and religious minorities and (gasp!) women might start having a say in the way that games, comics, etc. will be created in the future. The strawmen that are regularly trotted out – that men are objectified as well, that it's a convention of the genre, that women actually have more privileges than guys – are a distraction from the real issue: that the Privileged are worried that they won't be as privileged in the near future if this threat isn't stomped out. Hence the usual reactions: derailment, minimization and ultimately dismissing the topic all together.

As much as my nerdy brethren wish that more girls were of the geeky persuasion, it's a little understandable why women might be a little reticent. It's hard to feel valued or fully included when a very vocal group insists that your input is irrelevant, misguided and ultimately unwelcome. It's small wonder why geekdom – for all of it's self-proclaimed enlightened attitudes towards outsiders and outcasts – still retains the odor of the guy's locker room.

HOW MALE PRIVILEGE AFFECTS GEEK GIRLS IN REAL LIFE

Don't make the mistake of thinking male privilege is solely about how big Power Girl's [breasts] are, fan service and jiggle physics in 3D fighters. It affects geek girls in direct, personal ways as well.

Remember the example I mentioned earlier with my then-girlfriend in the comic store? Her opinions were deemed mistaken and she was told she didn't "get it"… because she was a girl.

Y'see, one of the issues that nerd girls face is the fact that they are seen as girls first and anything else second. And before you flood my comments section demanding to know why this is a bad thing, realize that being seen as a "girl" first colors every interaction that they have within fandom. They're treated differently because they are women.

We will now pause for the expected responses: well that's a good thing isn't it, girls get special treatment because they're girls, guys will fall all over themselves to try to get girls to like ‘em so it all balances out.


If you're paying attention you'll realize that – once again – those reactions are what I'm talking about.

Y'see, nobody's saying that women don't receive different treatment from guys… I'm saying that being treated differently is the problem. And yes, I know exactly what many of you are going to say and I'll get to that in a minute.

Male privilege – again – is about what men can expect as the default setting for society. A man isn't going to have everything about him filtered through the prism of his gender first. A man, for example, who gets a job isn't going to face with suggestions that his attractiveness or that his willingness to perform sexual favors was a factor in his being hired, nor will he be shrugged off as a "quota hire". A man isn't expected to be a representative of his sex in all things; if he fails at a job, it's not going to be extrapolated that all men are unfit for that job. A man who's strong-willed or aggressive won't be denigrated for it, nor are men socialized to "go along to get along". A man can expect to have his opinion considered, not dismissed out of hand because of his sex. When paired with a woman who's of equal status, the man can expect that most of the world will assume that he's the one in charge. And, critically, a man doesn't have to continually view the world through the lens of potential violence and sexual assault.

Now with this in mind, consider why being a girl first may be a hindrance to geek girls. A guy who plays a first person shooter – Call of Duty, Halo, Battlefield, what-have-you – online may expect a certain amount of trash talking, but he's not going to be inundated with offers for sex, threats of rape, sounds of simulated [self-pleasure] or demands that he [perform sexual acts] – but not before going to the kitchen and getting them a beer/sandwich/pizza first. Men will also not be told that they're being "too sensitive" or that "they need to toughen up" when they complain about said sexual threats.

Men also won't have their opinions weighed or dismissed solely on the basis of how sexy or attractive they are. The most common responses a woman can expect in an argument – especially online – is that she's fat, ugly, single, jealous, or a lesbian – or any combination thereof – and therefore her opinion is irrelevant, regardless of it's actual merits. This is especially true if she's commenting on the portrayal of female characters, whether in comics, video games or movies.

Men can expect that their presence at an event won't automatically be assumed to be decorative or secondary to another man. Despite the growing presence of women in comics, as publishers, editors and creators as well as consumers, a preponderance of men will either treat women at conventions as inconveniences, booth bunnies or even potential dates. Many a female creator or publisher has had the experience of convention guests coming up and addressing all of their questions to the man at the table… despite being told many times that the man is often the assistant, not the talent, only there to provide logistical support and occasional heavy lifting.

Men are also not going to be automatically assigned into a particular niche just based on their gender. A girl in a comic store or a video game store is far more likely to be dismissed as another customer's girlfriend/sister/cousin rather than being someone who might actually be interested in making a purchase herself. And when they are seen as customers, they're often automatically assumed to be buying one of the designated "girl" properties… regardless of whether they were just reading Ultimate Spider-Man or looking for a copy of Saint's Row 3.

Of course, the other side of the coin isn't much better; being dismissed for the sin of being a woman is bad, but being placed on the traditional pillar is no less insulting. Guys who fall all over themselves to fawn over a geek girl and dance in attendance upon her are just as bad. The behavior is different, but the message is the same: she's different because she's a girl. These would-be white knights are ultimately treating her as a fetish object, not as a person. It's especially notable when it comes to sexy cosplayers; the guys will laude them for being geek girls and celebrate them in person and online. They'll lavish attention upon them, take photos of them and treat them as queens…

And in doing so, they're sending the message that women are only valued in geek culture if they're willing to be a sexually alluring product. Everybody loves Olivia Munn when she enters the room [butt] first as Aeon Flux, but nobody is particularly concerned by the girls dressed in a baseball tee, jeans and ballet flats. One of these is welcomed into geek culture with open arms, the other has to justify their existence in the first place.

WHAT DOES ALL OF THIS MEAN TO YOU?

The reason why male privilege is so insidious is because of the insistance that it doesn't exist in the first place. That willful ignorance is key in keeping it in place; by pretending that the issue doesn't exist, it is that much easier to ensure that nothing ever changes.

Geek society prides itself on being explicitly counter-culture; nerds will crow about how, as a society, they're better than the others who exclude them. They'll insist that they're more egalitarian; geeks hold tight to the belief that geek culture is a meritocracy, where concepts of agism, sexism and racism simply don't exist the way it does elsewhere. And yet, even a cursory examination will demonstrate that this isn't true.

And yet geeks will cling to this illusion while simultaneously refusing to address the matters that make it so unattractive to women and minorities. They will insist that they treat women exactly the same as they treat guys – all the while ignoring the fact that their behavior is what's making the women uncomfortable and feeling unwelcome in the first place. They will find one girl in their immediate community who will say that she's not offended and use her as the "proof" that nobody else is allowed to be offended.

Changing this prevailing attitude starts with the individual. Call it part of learning to be a better person; being willing to examine your own attitudes and behaviors and to be ruthlessly honest about the benefits you get from being a white male in fandom is the first step. Waving your hands and pretending that there isn't a problem is a part of the attitude that makes women feel unwelcome in fandom and serves as the barrier to entry to geeky pursuits that she might otherwise enjoy.

Bringing the spotlight onto the concept of male privilege as it exists in nerd culture is the first step in making it more welcoming of diversity, especially women.

^ A good read about how geek culture is still pretty exclusionary to women. It makes a lot of solid points, including how most women in games are portrayed as sex objects.

Ugh, that's one of my biggest pet peeves, really. And a good portion of why I rarely play as female characters in any game I play: I'd rather not stare at Boobilicious' Bouncing Backside for hours on end. (I think Fable 3 might be one of the rare cases where I actually enjoyed playing as a woman.)

And another peeve is playing online. It is impossible to play an online game with a mic that doesn't result in having sexist "Go make me a sandwich!" comments hurled in my direction. Impossible. Has happened in 100% of the games where I or any other female player bothered to try and talk.



So I guess this topic is maybe to talk about any sexism you've encountered in your geeky ways (because I know everyone here is a geek of some sort :3), or any ideas on how to get this turned around. Or to rant about Olivia Munn. (Ohmigaahsh do I dislike that woman.)

[Gelquie]

Ah yeah, I remember reading that article. It's a fun one.

I do agree that I very much dislike how women in video games always seem to wear scant clothing or armor that doesn't cover everything. (Although part of my rant there is also the fact that some armors seen in games don't cover a very necessary part in battle... like the heart. ) And I do wish I would see less of that. As an avid video gamer, I tend to think more of a game where clothing is realistic to the situation, male or female. (If a female character is leading an army of knights into battle, I expect her to be fully bedecked in armor, with no skin showing except for on the face.)

That said, among the gaming community itself, there are a number of girls, enough where some guys have gotten used to the fact that girls play games too. There are... notable exceptions. But at least among the people I hang out with, they're not shocked at the idea of girls playing video games. Doesn't mean it's not male-dominant. Maybe it's because of the targeting towards guys. But it's not so much in some geek-doms like D&D or geeky board games or similar.

If you're at least decent at video games when playing online, I think most guys shut up with the sexist comments since they have to worry more about how you're actually playing. (And plus, jokes like that get pretty old after a while. Although when I get them, I laugh it off. Besides, if I'm in the right mood and in the right kind of game, I'll then shoot their player's head off when I get the chance. xD ) If they don't stop for some reason... Well, I guess some systems have a mute button.

Overall, I'm agreeing it's male dominant, especially in the video game sector, but I don't think it's completely male dominant. There are a number of girls who take their place in the geek world. I'm not the only girl who enters the comic shop.

Of course, maybe it could vary by region. My region of geeks could just be more accepting of female geeks. I'd be interested to hear of more things from people who don't live where I am. (So... All of this forum. )

I'll probably have stories later when I think of them.

[Robyn]

It's late right now, and I'll add more points if and when I think of them, but I find it seriously odd that I'm the only girl working at the local video game place I work at.

And we have like 12 people on staff.

I dunno, if I were more touchy about it, I might make a fuss about being the 'token girl' there, but no one has really made a big deal about me being a girl and working there yet? No one on the staff or otherwise has said anything about it, positive or negative, so. XD

Sorry, let me regroup my thoughts and then come back to this once I have something relevant. Do you guys find that fishy at all, at least?

[Gav]

Oh man the armour thing. Unless you're gonna be wearing full plate, armour in games is largely ridiculous. (There have been a few games where a loincloth provided better armour than chainmail) It's definitely worse on the female end, though.

As for the whole percieved geekery towards women, I think more and more people are adjusting to it. Sure, you're always gonna have the people-who-need-a-life that go with the whole 'females on the internet? Imposshible!', but the quantity drops rapidly as the age group gets older. Doesn't help that most of the people playing are usually in their teens, but... yeah. XD

I'll admit, when I first start knowing a girl, unless I know right off the bad she's a video game fan, I'm unlikely to bring it up with her. Guys tend to fall into two groups though, sportsGuys and gamesGuys. The lines are steadily blurring, however.

As for games being marketed towards guys/girls, a tip to video game companies: you want to market a game towards girls, fill it with meaningful plot and addictive gameplay. Try doing something like FFX-2 and I say you're gonna have more guys playing it and gawking than girls staring at pretty outfits (not to say that FFX-2 wasn't a good game). Female gamers tend to be more.. mature than looking for male butt in their games.

EDIT: As for girls working at video stores, yeah, it's rarer. The stigma that guys coming in are gonna gawk at any female employee doesn't help, especially if you work at a store where your expected clientile is 90% guys. But I guess you could say that you'd definitely see less guys working at, uh, clothing stores or accessory shops (though I could be wrong, it's all about location.) Kinda like the stereotype that any guy dabbling in fashion might be gay.

[Dju]

SPOILER: Click to show

Oh boy, I agree with this so much!

When I was younger, I turned on the TV to find an episode of Batman going on, and I immediately began adoring catwoman, she was represented this way: catwomanfan.com/en/felines/gershon/images/catwoman1.jpg


She was practical, agile, elegant, feline, funny, smart and just as good as Batman fighting! Then last year I tried reading comics, but lost the interest. Maybe because Harley is dressed as a hooker in her normal clothes (now with the new comic book, Suicide Squad, she always dresses as one), Poison Ivy hardly dresses and they invented a freaking zipper on Catwoman's costume! Don't let me get started on Power Girl's... >.<

I know Catowman is supposed to be seductive, but she also represents female power. And with all this body thing, she sort of lost the point. Her power used to be her feet and her claws, her sharp tongue and ambition. Now it's just her body and chasing after Batman.

It's just really frustrating that the geek universe screams "You're just welcome here because of your body"! That's another reason why I feel uncomfortable with anime/manga, almost in every anime there is a sexist joke, most of the time the villain is a man with many female minions, and those annoying transformations from school girl to a so called "warrior" with a totally inefficient armor that covers almost nothing.

I was raised with 4 boys, my brother and my cousins. They never excluded me because I'm a girl. We simply didn't see the difference. But when my cousin's friends visit, it's really annoying. Their friends automatically assume everything I say is stupid, that I'm always wrong and that they shouldn't play video games with me because I'm an "easy opponent". Not that I'm a good player, but assuming so without even knowing someone is so infuriating!

*deep breath* Sorry, getting a bit carried away here. XD

[Fang of the Dead]

As a guy, I'm gonna have to echo the sentiments here. I can tolerate (but not really like - I'm asexual in regards to animated characters, strangely enough) fanservice and all (mainly because I love humongous Mecha anime, which usually have a lot of it), but an excess of it still grates on my nerves. Take a lot of female video game characters. The only female video game characters I can think of that wear full suits of armor are Samus Aran (who has a Zero Suit, as well, because they have to give the fanboys SOMETHING. *sigh*) and Hilde from the Soul Series, whose alternate costumes are a completely covering dress and a masculine musketeer uniform. I know, I'm surprised the designers went for elegant and/or practical over hypersexualized, too. Why can't we have more female video game, anime and comic characters who dress like Hilde and less who dress like they're on the cover of Heavy Metal magazine?

And Larxene's also got a pretty practical costume... Aside from the heels. No Action Girl should ever have to run in those.

As for the sexist jokes guys with mics make? Idiots like them are the reason I hate online play, just for all the homophobia and sexism they freely sling around.

EDIT: Dju, your avatar/signature combo reminded me: Even though I'm not into FiM, I still admire and respect it for being one quite possibly the best feminist series in a long while. Not only is it loved by nerds of both sexes, but it's filled with strong, capable female characters who are more than just stereotypes - take Rarity, for example. In any other show, she'd be the Libby - a shallow fashionista who FOLLOWS trends. In FiM, Rarity's a trendSETTER - she's a fashion maker, and is also a good friend, even if she is a little overly dramatic at times. As a matter of fact, each of the Mane Six are good role models for girls - you got the hard worker with Applejack, the sporty tomboy with Rainbow Dash, the funny girl with Pinkie, the sweet friend to all animals with Fluttershy, and the clever scholar with Twilight Sparkle. None of them are shallow stereotypes - they're well-rounded characters with flaws and strengths, and each of them are good feminist archetypes. Lauren Faust is probably the biggest and best feminist in animation.

[Ian Wolf-Park]

I find that the the video game developers tend to lean towards the cliche archetypes (males being oriented, and females being the damsel in distress/ sex objects). Even if there were games geared towards girls (which there is, just far and few), they're mainly 'dress-up' games or something else that would appeal to the females. Of course, they should know better, as not all girls are girly girls and not all men are macho.

And with the Internet being what it is, you never know who's behind the character as it could be a guy playing a female character or vice versa (I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one who does this) . I have gotten characters who have asked me out and the sexist comments as well , which is the reason I ignore the chat boxes (that, and a few other things, but that's a whole different story).

[Crystal]

I think it depends a lot on what part of the nerd spectrum you're hanging out with.

Does sexism exist? Yeah, but I honestly haven't seen much of it. A lot of the gender jokes I've heard tossed around have been either a) of the complimentary sort, or b) made by women. I'm of the opinion that people of a group have a certain free pass to make jokes about that group, like black people making black jokes.

That said, though, I don't play PvP all that much... and if I do, I usually play a male character. I do have to agree that excess fanservice grates on me, though. I'm fine with some tasteful and well-done stuff, but there's a line between 'attractive' and 'slutty', and (particularly in manga) panty shots tend to make me want to punch something. The problem is just that I'm not sure if I get to say anything about it, given all the shoujo manga I also read, with the harems full of tsundere bishie boys.

[Killix]

Sorry, I removed the link because halfway through reading it - surprise! Unfriendly language.

I remember reading a very similar article that was clean, I'll see if I can find it.

[Dju]

Uuuh...totally off topic but, I just downloaded "ponify" and reading all this is so funny. XD

hehe, "Power Filly"...can't help but imagine super scootaloo. XD

[Jove]

I've never really run into any kind of sexism regarding my nerdier hobbies, oddly enough, although I've almost always had what society might deem "masculine" interests, even when I was little. I grew up around a lot of boys, and very rarely did I ever hear anything along the lines of 'But that's for boys!' and when I did it was from very young, immature children.

On certain sites and games I put my gender as male or omit it entirely. It's not that I'm concerned about getting treated differently because I'm female, because that has never really happened. Honestly, just taking my personality and hobbies at face value without knowing my gender you could just as easily assume that I was a guy. And that's how it should be - Your gender identity shouldn't dictate your interests and nobody should judge you for what you like or don't like.

That being said, I've never really been bothered by scantily clad females in games/comics/shows and what have you. (it's more of their personalities that are the problem, esp in video games, but that's a whole nother rant.) I don't know if it's my sexuality playing a role there or not, it never bothered even when I thought I was straight/asexual. Straight male gamers wanna look at some hot girl, I have no problem with it. As long as I'm allowed to look at hot shirtless guys without being judged and as long games keep getting made with attractive shirtless guys I'll be fine.

Yeah, there certainly is an imbalance. But things are changing, especially compared to how things were years ago. No way to go but up.

[PFA]

I'm a girl who's both into video games and has always wanted to make my own, so I always seem to expect a lot more "omg it's a girl" comments than I actually get. To be honest, I don't think I've ever gotten those types of comments. XD;

But, um, yeah. Pretty much agreeing with Crystal in that it depends on which crowd you hang out with. Most of the nerd types I've ever met are quite respectful and treat girls like equals rather than omg girls. But then I crawl around the internet and find a bunch of immature guys who can only focus on a woman's chest. So yeah, the sexist nerds are out there, but there are also many nerd groups that aren't.

I also agree that a little fanservice doesn't bother me if it's done tastefully. Pretty much as long as it's not giant bouncing boobs, panty shots, and/or outfits that continually distract me with their "how the heck is that staying on," then I don't really care. XD

EDIT: Also, sort of related to Jakie's comment on female character personalities, it tends to bug me when they throw a female character into a fanservicey outfit for no other reason than the designers wanted them to wear it. Like, it doesn't even suit their personality at all, it's just there. >_>

[M is for Morphine]

I don't have a problem with fanservice existing. Heck, I frequently like it. My problem is how few female characters have no defining characteristics other than sex appeal. There has definitely been progress in this area. We've got Chell from Portal, who is smart enough to solve some pretty crazy puzzles and incredibly resilient. There's also Faith from Mirror's Edge, who's a very competent professional courier and has a look that emphasizes athleticism over butts n' boobies.

Now comic books... man. The lunatics are really running the asylum there. Every comic book store employee I've met has been really, really cool to me. Everyday fans have generally treated me as a person rather than a strange foreign creature. But comic book companies themselves! What are they doing?! DC's New 52 has been completely full of boggling choices- from the massive reduction of female talent, to the horrible treatment of Starfire. She goes from a cheerful, sex-positive character who wants to share her love with everybody-physical love included-to a callous person who can't remember the names of her previous partners, and doesn't care to.

Quick, think of a plus-sized female comic book character. I can think of one: Amanda Waller, leader of Project Cadmus in the (completely awesome) Justice League Unlimited. She doesn't even have super powers, but she'll give Superman what for. Oh wait, they made her yet another super skinny chick with huge bazongas. "No fat chicks allowed" in superhero land.

Tabletop gaming: the worst experiences I've ever had with male nerds in person all came from table top gaming. Oooh boy. I have never actually successfully started a D&D campaign because both of my attempts were such a disaster I never went back. The 'best' one being this one guy who suggested I roll a necromancer. Sweet, that sound fun. I distribute my stats, pick some talents, and show it to him for approval... he suggests I take the talent 'lich-loved', which will give me benefits from sleeping with corpses. Sleeping. With. Corpses. When I said absolutely not, it was pretty much game over. I didn't get to play. That has to be the most convoluted scheme I've ever heard of to get a girl to RP sexy-times with you. The other time I was invited to a game (different person, different group) the dude just badgered me all night to come over to his house afterwards. I just want to play a game, I don't want to be your freaky DnD hookup.

Online gaming: I don't even want to go there. I got corpse camped in WoW buy a bunch of guys, one of whom hopped over to a character on my side to talk to me, and invite me to their voice chat. If I did not accept, they would continue to harass me. As it turns out, they wanted to confirm that I was a real girl since I had a girly name. What the heck, for real. Online gaming with the general public is horrible. You have to get a group of friends or else you're just drifting in a sea of horribleness. I have a female troll warrior which I intentionally gave the ugliest face available, and I still get sexually harassed. People will PM you and demand cybering, and then insult you when you refuse. I could go on forever, for real. : /

[Komori]

It's not that game women are sometimes used as fanservice that's a problem, it's that they're almost always nothing more than fanservice. The fact that you can probably count the exceptions on one hand is testament to that.

And where women are blatantly and obviously fanservice, how many blatant fanservice male characters can you name? In video games, the only one I can think of was the PS2 Prince of Persia game, where the prince seems to lose more and more of his tunic as the game progressed. I remember being pretty surprised at that, how that was the first time ever a game was giving me a sexy-man character to play.

Feb 7, 2012 0:57:41 GMT -5 Gelquie said:

If you're at least decent at video games when playing online, I think most guys shut up with the sexist comments since they have to worry more about how you're actually playing. (And plus, jokes like that get pretty old after a while. Although when I get them, I laugh it off. Besides, if I'm in the right mood and in the right kind of game, I'll then shoot their player's head off when I get the chance. xD ) If they don't stop for some reason... Well, I guess some systems have a mute button.

Yeah, but why should atmosphere be so oppressively sexist, where my only option is to "shrug it off"? Or feel like I have to prove myself as a gamer to get them to shut up? And if I'm a bad player, or a new player, why should I have to subject myself to their slurs just to enjoy a game?

Why should discrimination be an inevitable expectation? You wouldn't want to go to the Neoboards if every time you visited you'd be greeted with racial slurs, would you? Or jabs at your sexuality when you went to the movies? (Though, as an aside, the movies still stereotype homosexuals as the "gay best friend.") It's not fun, and it isn't fair, and shouldn't be tolerated.

(Also, a mute button isn't a good option if you're playing any game that involves teamwork, like Team Fortress 2.)



The fact that geekery is becoming almost mainstream (Comic Con becoming an event attended by celebs for the heck of it, etc) just makes it worse. How can something so widely popular be so slow at changing their attitudes towards women?

Feb 7, 2012 11:18:57 GMT -5 Killix said:

Sorry, I removed the link because halfway through reading it - surprise! Unfriendly language.

I remember reading a very similar article that was clean, I'll see if I can find it.

ACK, my bad! D: If you can't find an article, tonight I'll just copy-paste the most pertinent paragraphs into a spoiler-box in my first post (censored of course).

[M is for Morphine]

Feb 7, 2012 13:31:21 GMT -5 Komori said:

Yeah, but why should atmosphere be so oppressively sexist, where my only option is to "shrug it off"? Or feel like I have to prove myself as a gamer to get them to shut up? And if I'm a bad player, or a new player, why should I have to subject myself to their slurs just to enjoy a game?

This x1000.

A guy can play a game and be terrible at it, and never have to worry that he's reflecting poorly on his entire gender. Whereas if I don't do well, I'm reinforcing the view that girl gamers are terrible. It's never "u suck" it's always "I knew it, girls suck". It makes me feel like I've let people down, and I hate it.

It's great if it doesn't bother you, but that doesn't make it OK.