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Post by Rabbit ♠ on May 24, 2018 20:15:51 GMT -5
I don't have much to say about the plot prizes, but  I really like the Field of Visions foreground. (I think the wearables given out during the course of the plot were pretty solid. The wig and the background were from NC portions of the plot.) Also, that stamp sells so fast and for so much. |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2018 23:29:09 GMT -5
Man, I'm so disappointed that the plot ended up giving prizes the same way that daily dare and stuff did. I went out of my way to do multiple extra battledome encounters and craft extra potions rather than selling the pricier ingredients because I thought I'd get more plot points. Was excited to see the weapons and other quirky things that we'd normally get in a prize shop especially considering that I actually managed to get every achievement this time. It's such a shame, a lot has gone wrong with WR, and I didn't really care all that much, but this one feels the worst. On a side note I totally called that the darkest faerie lost her power |
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Post by doctortomoe on May 25, 2018 0:28:49 GMT -5
So, I can't get the end video to load. Could someone summarize what happened?
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Post by charming thievery on May 25, 2018 1:27:42 GMT -5
hardtotame just made another post! This time addressing trophies and prizes.
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Post by Herdy on May 25, 2018 7:06:56 GMT -5
I'm not sure it explains everything. It only clears up a couple of the larger plot points, and in the process opens up a load more questions.
Like, are Malum and the DF still dying? We did absolutely nothing to destroy any of the fragments of Jerdana's Orb, and Malum is specifically still wearing his. Seems like the DF doesn't have the means to break the curse, since she'd have done so already. Surely they'd still be draining them of life?
Why does Jerdana's Orb even do that? Jerdana designed the orb to contain the DF, not kill her. After all, they are still old friends.
Can Malum still be possessed by the DF? The other Neopets recover after we hit them, but Malum was still under her power after he arrived in the infirmary. Surely that's just a ticking time bomb?
What is the Forgotten Graveyard and why can only the DF and Malum (even when he's not under her control) remember it? It's not like it is the DF's secret lair since she never went to the HW the last time she was awake.
What is this letter Malum talks about? He mentions it like we should know, but I think that's the first time it's mentioned?
Why does the DF even need Jerdana's Orb to make these monsters? Transforming people into monsters and mind-control are two things she's already very good at.
Admittedly, I'd be very hard to please with this since the whole thing's been such a mess, story wise, to me. But I'd hoped for more. |
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Post by Duke Pikachu on May 26, 2018 13:35:24 GMT -5
Plot End Thoughts:
JS's first attempt at a plot... and it's a mixed bag. I'll admit, I was very concerned that they would totally mess it up, but in the end it turned out to be more unremarkable (though considering I was expecting a total wreck with Neopet's lore I was relieved when that mostly wasn't the case). As always, to get my thoughts across best let's break things down:
Story: The biggest concern, the story is what would have made or break this plot. Last plot was the Faeries' Ruin which this plot was a follow-up on, so it had two times the pressure to do well. Sadly, while it didn't do any harm, it under performed being both a plot and follow-up to the previous plot that was good. We started out with an intriguing mystery, then we thought we were making progress piecing together incidents and reports... but then the plot twist happened which flipped everything on its head, in a bad way. Worse, the final video revealed we had been deceived this entire time, nothing we did really was solving the mystery but rather small isolated incidents we weren't a part of was actually moving the story to its inevitable conclusion. The only thing we really did that made an impact was finding rocks to combine into a bigger rock, ~whoo, go team~.
A big problem with the story was there was no comics. All dialogue was done via text boxes with stock portraits (though sadly even here JS falters as characters rarely had two portraits, meaning most of the time the character had the same expression no matter what the tone of the text boxes were, such a smiling happily while angrily yelling or giving concerned thoughts). All actions either were written out, implied, or was part of the plot step. This had a major negative effect as it didn't allow characters to be fleshed out as they were unable to have much dialogue (thus less general talk between characters) and had no body action to add emphasis or show characteristics not part of their dialogue.
Going to characters, I actually quite liked that the main characters were all Faeries, I don't think we've had a plot like that. It was interesting in seeing Fyora taking an active role and leading the investigation, Aethia giving orders and trying to keep things together when Fyora was knocked unconscious, and Taelia having a surprisingly big role being the one to cure & heal the turned Neopets (and later Fyora) as well as being the voice of reason. Of course, there is a fourth character: Kaia. Or, rather, the Darkest Faerie disguised as Kaia. The final video revealed that TDF had replaced Kaia before the Faerie Festival and been tricking everyone by leading them into ambushes (by faking having visions) and slowly plotting to kill Fyora but never got the chance. Looking back at the dialogue and knowing it was the TDF now, I gotta say things that Kaia said actually now make sense... though that said it was odd how close TDF was to blowing her cover or getting into unnecessary trouble. What this also meant that we never actually got to see the true Kaia, the new character, the character who was being hyped up... didn't appear until the very end and was a hostage. Not to mention TDF was given a disservice, her final plan sounding something like a cartoon villain would do. I'm personally fine with her having been weakened, but she still has her smarts. Also I don't think JS understood what Jerdana's Orb exactly did, leading to confused questions. TDF deserved to have been brought back in a better plot, but at least she's around now so there's story potential there.
Honestly, this wasn't a plot, this was an event. A big event, but it just didn't quite had that plot feeling.
(COMING UP: Plot Steps (including Puzzles & Battles) & Prizes)
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2018 13:53:17 GMT -5
People seem to be saying that we've never actually seen Kaia, but re-watching the video, the darkest faerie appears to have disguised as Kaia after the festival was destroyed, as Malum destroys the festival with the wraiths, and then says that the "next command" was to lure Kaia into the trap. So we HAVE actually seen the real Kaia in some capacity.
However, this also means that the being who created 'Wing It!' is free, and I'm not sure if that's better or worse fate for Neopia than a disguised darkest faerie.
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Post by Ian Wolf-Park on May 26, 2018 15:29:20 GMT -5
Duke Pikachu- Part of the reason comics were not used for this plot is because of Flash being phased out and previous plot comics using said program, leaving JSN no choice but to use alternatives. Yes, that meant that in a way, characters were not fleshed out as they were in the past, however, this had 4 existing site characters (Fyora, Aethia, Taelia and TDF) that were already fleshed out through various means (mainly the Neopedia). With that being said, there were definitely inconsistencies throughout the plot, most notably the Fiendish Formations fiasco and the prize shop/tiered prizes. The site theme released prior to TWR as a part of the Faerie Festival is another glaring one as it features 4 characters that were never in the plot. The long gaps between new steps probably did not help either. Overall, I was coming in to this plot with low expectations, seeing as this was the first plot for JSN. I felt that this could have potential had the plot had been a bit more polished. Shortening the long wait times would have made it flow better as well. While not an utter mess, hopefully, JSN learns from their mistakes from this and make the next one better, whenever that will be.
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Post by Herdy on May 26, 2018 15:51:22 GMT -5
It's fairly straightforward to make a comic in the style of a Neopets plot comic without using flash - that's not the reason we didn't see a comic. Fundementally, they require a lot of art resources that Jumpstart simply do not have.
I disagree that the dialogue format they picked was what limited the story (except, maybe, initially picking the Daily Dare's couplets before discovering SFEC's expanding dialogue). Dialogue-only stories can be plenty engaging and give depth to characters - think about any radio play. They ultimately work in the same way.
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Post by Duke Pikachu on May 26, 2018 22:34:03 GMT -5
Quick Responses:Themeguy : You are right, so we did meet the real Kaia during the Faerie Festival (and thus my Neopian Times article still canon, yeah!). Still, she was built up as a major figure for the plot and not only did the plot under utilize her but then it was revealed it wasn't her, she was a damsel in distress this entire plot (do Faeries need to eat or sleep? Cause it took months to finish it)! Ian Wolf-Park : As Herdy said, they could have used HTML like they are using now. They just didn't want to set aside the resource because it's a lot that needs to be put aside (plus making a comic takes a lot more planning than just dialogue boxes). Oh yeah, what was with that Wraith Resurgence site theme? Maybe we could ask them to replace the characters with Malum and the Wraithified Neopets. And yeah, the pacing between parts was horrible at times, especially during the very end because they shoved in two other events! Herdy : You're right, the style they went with did provide them with opportunities to do small vignettes. They could have had characters talk to each other on how each of them is doing and what they're thinking and feeling. But sadly that's not how JS used them. They were strictly for story purposes to give out what basically was happening. Also, after re-watching the video myself I might have some answers to your questions (or I can make some up): Jerdana's Orb: Th broken Jerdana's Orb pieces made to drain life could be due to the curse TDF put on it to make it into the ring and clasp.
Dying From It: Going to have to theorize, but could be an unforeseen side effect that making it drain life also affects them. So why did they keep wearing it? TDF probably connected the curse she put on Malum to it so to keep control of Malum she needed to keep wearing it herself until the end. When the plot ended either off screen they were taken off or they were able to undo the curse on them.
Malum's Possession: It is curious why Reizo is still Malum. Since Reizo was transformed directly by TDF instead of the Jerdana Orb pieces, could be he just has a more powerful curse on him. Without the Jerdana Orb pieces she probably doesn't have control over him at the moment, but if she regains power and attacks again who knows.
Forgotten Graveyard: Nothing special, just an abandoned graveyard somewhere in the Haunted Woods (there must be dozens of them) that TDF plotted her scheme from.
Malum's Letter: It's something that needed to happen off screen to explain thing, that's what it is. It's just a letter from Reizo to Kaia, normally nothing special as they constantly write back-and-forth.
TDF's Powers: This is sort of what I meant by saying TDF deserved better. The return of TDF should be a grand event, the most evil Faerie has returned and spreading her dark influence everywhere! But since it looked like they had her become weakened (why else would she tag along with Reizo upon being freed) instead they had to make her use a sneaky scheme. Reizo probably told her about the event of the Faeries' Ruin so she decided she'd use Wraith-like creatures this time instead of her usual minions. But either due to being weakened or didn't know how to properly create Wraiths, she needed to experiment a bit (the Jerdana Orb pieces being used as a magica source she could use, especially after cursing it to drain life like the Wraiths do). Malum was her first attempt at a Wraith and I think it can be agreed Malum isn't quite the Wraith we're used to.
Though here's a question: Why did TDF not use Kaia? She can take over Faeries, she did so Illusen in the PS2 game and Kaia isn't as strong as Illusen, so why wasn't she made into a Wraith creature to serve TDF?
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Post by Herdy on May 27, 2018 14:56:39 GMT -5
No - the Forgotten Graveyard is explicitly stated to be a location that everyone forgets exists on both the main page and the clearing page. But that's never expanded as to why it has that characteristic or why that characteristic doesn't apply to TDF or Malum (neither of whom have a link to the area yet can freely recall it exists and the location). Fyora can also find it, but you can perhaps explain that she was just following the sound of the explosion.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 18:13:32 GMT -5
No - the Forgotten Graveyard is explicitly stated to be a location that everyone forgets exists on both the main page and the clearing page. But that's never expanded as to why it has that characteristic or why that characteristic doesn't apply to TDF or Malum (neither of whom have a link to the area yet can freely recall it exists and the location). Fyora can also find it, but you can perhaps explain that she was just following the sound of the explosion. This seems pretty simple to figure out. Just because a place is forgotten doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that someone can't stumble upon it. Reizo, who was travelling a very beaten path on his way through unfamiliar lands, appears to have been the one to stumble upon it, which is also coincidentally where the darkest faerie fell (Which I suppose also makes sense considering King Altador failed to find her in a place that is fairly forgotten). Since the Darkest Faerie was resurrected in the graveyard, she would obviously know the location of it. It's not a place that forces people to forget about it, it's just a place that people have forgotten about. Your Fyora explanation is also on the money, since her dialogue relates to the explosion more so than the graveyard itself. |
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Post by Herdy on May 27, 2018 18:40:39 GMT -5
No - the Forgotten Graveyard is explicitly stated to be a location that everyone forgets exists on both the main page and the clearing page. But that's never expanded as to why it has that characteristic or why that characteristic doesn't apply to TDF or Malum (neither of whom have a link to the area yet can freely recall it exists and the location). Fyora can also find it, but you can perhaps explain that she was just following the sound of the explosion. This seems pretty simple to figure out. Just because a place is forgotten doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that someone can't stumble upon it. Reizo, who was travelling a very beaten path on his way through unfamiliar lands, appears to have been the one to stumble upon it, which is also coincidentally where the darkest faerie fell (Which I suppose also makes sense considering King Altador failed to find her in a place that is fairly forgotten). Since the Darkest Faerie was resurrected in the graveyard, she would obviously know the location of it. It's not a place that forces people to forget about it, it's just a place that people have forgotten about. Your Fyora explanation is also on the money, since her dialogue relates to the explosion more so than the graveyard itself. No, the two graveyard pages state it is a place that actively slips from your memory, not just a location that everyone’s forgotten about. Sure, you can find it accidentally, but both TDF and Reizo returned there later, intentionally. |
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Post by Duke Pikachu on May 27, 2018 20:01:27 GMT -5
No, the two graveyard pages state it is a place that actively slips from your memory, not just a location that everyone’s forgotten about. Sure, you can find it accidentally, but both TDF and Reizo returned there later, intentionally. Could be that, unless you have a reason to remember it you forget about it. The Forgotten Graveyard was where TDF had her device set up and Kaia imprisoned. Or for mere mortals the place has a magic that makes you forget but a more powerful creature would be able to resist the effect. Anyway, next part of my final thoughts: PLOT STEPS:To best explain my thoughts, I'll go through each step as we encountered them: Area Clearing: First step we got was one of the "Area Clearing" puzzles. This mainly involves deciphering Mystic Murmurs, opening the Faerie Chest, battling the Wraiths for ingredients, and then having Taelia make a potion to use to clear the area. Mystic Murmurs was an alright puzzle and I give credit to JS for having us solve the puzzle via the hidden number clues on the paper scattered throughout the HQ. However since there was only a handful of locations it could be and easy to discover early on when you got the wrong number pattern does it take a bit of the creativity out of the puzzle (not to mention the first Mystic Murmur having that little trick of refreshing the page to change all the non-important letters). Faerie Chest was probably the most difficult part of the puzzle. Each step added a new layer and each layer went at a faster speed so we had a scaling difficulty. Neat idea, though with their being an Achievement for getting each Faerie Chest under a certain amount of tries it did rise the frustration factors with the latter ones (luckily they made it so you can re-try them). But no matter the number of tries once open you'll not only get a weapon but also the Wraith which leads us to our next part... and a major complaint. On paper this was a good idea, battling opponents to get ingredients from them to make what you need to solve the puzzle. However, as the plot went on it quickly became apparent the problem with this: not everyone had a Neopet made for battling. In order to offset this the weapon given our FOR FREE was made as powerful as a Hidden Tower weapon (weapons usually costing millions of NP) and the opponents were never made too powerful (so players with battle ready Neopets never really got the challenge they were waiting for; also for some of the later opponents many Neopians were still struggling resorting to the once per day "Throw Pillow" strategy which took days to do). But it gets worse. Defeating the Wraith was the only way to get ingredients and the Wraiths sometimes never dropped them. So sadly, I would have to call this part of the steps a bust due to JS not fully thinking it through. And from here it was simply bringing the potion to the cursed area to cleanse it... if you were a Chrome user. I don't know what JS did, but for some reason parts of the plot didn't work on Firefox, a major web browser many use. For this step specifically the affected pages had this purple smoke overlay that on Firefox kept reloading itself making it difficult to press the button to use the potion, and even if you did it sometimes didn't register. Why they just didn't change the page itself to saying there was purple smoke everywhere I don't know. So to quickly recap, Mystic Murmurs was alright though easy to break down (maybe instead of letters have the chart be all symbols so you had to go through each of your number patterns to figure out which one was right), Faerie Chest I'd say was good though frustrating, but sadly the issues with battling and using the potion really soured these steps. Wild Woods: We just click three buttons and hope for the best; not the most complicated puzzle. Was annoying having to wait to try again, but with only eight possible routes to take it wasn't too punishing. Infirmary: The Infirmary steps are an extension to the Area Clearing steps. In addition to using them to clear an area, the potions were then needed to be used on patients. Seemed simple, but brought in its own batch of problems. First the minor problem, another browser issue. The UI of the Infirmary had you dragging the potion over the patient, and much like with using the potion to clear a page it doesn't work on Firefox. Second an immersion problem: the progress bar. Normally a progress bar like the patients got would be affected either by users, a timer, or both. However, it became clear the progress bar was completely under the control of JS, so I just want to ask this: what was the point? JS, if you were in complete control of the progression, why try creating the illusion we had any input? It looks decietful at worse or incompetent as "best", eitherway you're not coming out looking good. But now to the major problem: while the Achievement didn't require a lot of potions, you could still give patients as many potions as you want. Problem with this: you can only get a limited amount of ingredients. And with players unsure whether additional donations would count (not to mention the players who were having battling problems) there was a batch of players of ended up running out of ingredients. Afraid of flooding the servers, JS didn't want to make ingredients unlimited though did eventually let us get a few more ingredients for those who needed them to complete Achievements. The whole ingredients thing was kind of a disaster that even to today JS is trying to figure out. If they're going to make potion donating unlimited, the ingredients shouldn't have been actual items but rather just categories on a counter that way there's no worry of flooding the servers. Eve then, there should have been other ways to get ingredients then just winning a battle. Maybe we get an equipment item that gathers ingredients per use, or there's a daily game which gave a few ingredients. They should have just tossed the progress bar if they were going to decide when things improved. And finally the UI should have been made more simple, let us click on the potion then the patient, the dragging was unnecessary. Fiendish Formations: A surprising step, eight ten-round mirror matching puzzles which gradually grew more challenging with introduction of new mechanics. I found it fun though it certainly had frustrating things about it such as when a second assassin tile was added. However if you can get a method going you can get through each round fairly quickly. Wouldn't mind if this was made into a full fledged game!  Malum & Kaia/TDF: Granted the battle with Malum occurred before Fiendish Formations though both have the same function: they're boss battles. Though, depending on your Neopet, these were either a several day battle or 1 or 2HKO battle. And even though they don't drop ingredients, they do come with their own set of problems. Once again, you have to beat them as part of plot progression (or at least to get the Achievements). And they were decently strong so this was asking a lot from non-battling players. Many had to resort to the "Throw Pillows" strategy to get through. On the flip side, these were also the last two opponents. Those with battling pets looking for a super boss were left disappointed. It also felt anti-climatic, everyone was expecting a community boss like the Obelisk Spirits/Oblivion or an opponent which you got a weapon that 1HKO (though if you have a strong Neopet you can battle it normally) like Negg Breaker/Razul. The Clearing: The final step, it's just you looking around an image for a few dozen stone shards. Now, since we just had the final boss fight, it's not bad to have a simple puzzle as the final step to serve as a falling action set piece. The main issue is just that the final boss was a bit disappointing (especially considering the twist reveal) and that disappointment carries over. Also, considering how important this device is to TDF's plan, the puzzle was rather simple to shut it off. On their own I wouldn't call any of these bad steps, its just some weren't fully thought out. Worse, the plot had horrible pacing, having weeks if not months between steps, which further made these steps feel lesser. The story also didn't help, making you feel you're just going through the motions waiting for something to happen. If you don't know what I mean all I can say is read up on past plots (I suggest Lost Desert Plot, Tale of Woe, and Faeries' Ruin). |
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Post by Lizica on May 27, 2018 20:59:35 GMT -5
This doesn't contribute to the present conversation, but this is just my rambly impressions. (I've been a bit out of it and haven't been talking Neopets with people in a while, forgive me for rambling. xD) So yeah, I'll admit I wasn't as active as I could have been during this plot, and I stopped trying to keep up relatively early on. (I'm not much of a BDer, so eventually I just kind of got sick of fighting wraiths that rarely dropped the items I needed for potion mixing.)
So it's possible that I don't have much right to complain because I didn't contribute much. But at the same time--I got stuck on an early plot step in Tale of Woe, but I still tremendously enjoyed it because the story was good.
But here, I have to confess that I've been kind of waiting for it to just be over already. xD Since I was so far behind on steps, it was tiring to do some dailies, like fishing: The page would load slowly because of the animated purple haze, then I'd have to wait for the popup that proclaimed that oh my, how shocking, how surprising, whatever is this mysterious purple smoke that has literally been in this exact same spot for the last eight months? x'D (At some point I decided that I didn't really need the extra fish or stagnant puddle of water and stopped visiting the page altogether. Thank goodness I'd at least cleared the Giant Omelette and Jelly.) Being behind on the plot steps also meant that I mostly only had the dialogue pages to keep me up to date on what was happening, and from that angle, so much of it was confusing, and the dialogue itself wasn't very fulfilling as a reader, either. (Without Neo help sites and the NTWF, I'd be even more lost and clueless. xD)
I appreciate their tying some loose ends together a little bit more with the video, at least, though I think I would have preferred having the plot threads interwoven and expanded upon during the event itself rather than being presented as a giant infodump at the end. (At the very least--I may have said this during the Advent Calendar, but I'll say it again: Whoever is composing the music for these videos is doing a good job. The soundtrack added a lot of drama and tension.)
So overall, I think it might be a lie to say that I really enjoyed this plot, but I'm at least glad that they took a shot at it, rather than just coasting on what Neopia already has set up. ^^ And hopefully they'll do better in the future. Anyway, I do, however, absolutely love the slacker trophy I won! xD I'm a Vapid Volunteer, eeyyyyy! ...That's kind of hilarious and just perfect. xDDD |
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