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Post by Usikustars on Jul 27, 2011 18:40:59 GMT -5
I was gonna post this on the banter board, but I thought it would be a great discussion to have.
Okay, I was on Subeta today (I'm still debating if I like it or not....) and I was browsing the forum. I came across a thread with the same title as this one.
And let's just say I'm very shocked and disgusted right now.
Many people were saying that girls in that age bracket use chat-speak all the time and are slaves to singers like Miley Cyrus and create slash fan fictions/ Mary Sues. Being fourteen, I found the sterotypes very insulting and wrong, because for a lot of girls my age, it's not true. Sure, some do that type of stuff, but it's done by older people too.
Also, when did ten year-olds start writing slash fics? *Facepalm* Opinions? *Goes off and hit my head againist a wall*
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2011 19:08:45 GMT -5
No. Because I know for a fact I wasn't. I don't like the outlook that kids are "stupid" and adults are "smarter". True, we do learn more things, but unfortunately, there's a wisdom that children have that most people lose by the time they're adults.
The gift of unconditional love and no prejudice.
Here's how I see it: Children are born as beautiful, loving people. Sometimes, they end up with not the best parents. These parents tell them that certain people are not trustworthy and that this or that way of thinking is dangerous/wrong, or that they will be better doing this then following their dreams. We pass our own faults and limits to the innocents of the world. And it makes them just like us.
EDIT: Selm, why'd you delete your posts? People may not agree with you, but this board is supposed to be a place to express your own opinion and people know that it's an opinion and not meant to slam or insult anyone.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2011 19:11:39 GMT -5
Any statement of "fact" containing the word "all" or another such word are going to be false unless it's an already proven fact, and facts are generally logical and widely known, like the fact that all humans are mortal. This appears to be an opinion masquerading as fact. The basic argument they've put forward is this: Premise: All 10-14 year old girls like Miley Cyrus/use chatspeak/write fanfics, etc. Premise: Liking Miley Cyrus/using chatspeak/writing fanfic is stupid. Conclusion: All 10-14 year old girls are stupid. You can challenge just about every part of this. First, you can challenge the "all" part of the first premise and quote yourself as an example, but the real problem is with the second premise, which is not only an opinion, it's also a huge assumption. Is liking Miley Cyrus really stupid? Or is writing fanfic stupid? Are these things limited only to 10-14 year old girls, or mightn't there be adults who also like/do these sorts of things? Basically, I am 20 and I find it slightly offensive. It's a huge stereotype and not a good one to be labelled with, but at the end of the day, anyone with any sort of decency knows this is just a gross exaggeration and therefore not really worth the time of day. In short: it sucks, yeah, but you're awesome, so don't let it bother you. *hugs* True, we do learn more things, but unfortunately, there's a wisdom that children have that most people lose by the time they're adults. The gift of unconditional love and no prejudice. Is that why the 4 year old younger brother of a kid who attends my brother's school screamed and called me a *cough* ladydog when I smiled at him while picking my brother up?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2011 19:13:16 GMT -5
Nah. I wouldn't say they are stupid.
I will say that a lot of people (I won't say "majority" or "most", but definitely a lot) that age are just trying to fit in. :T It's a tough time, and people seek commonality. So sometimes they do things that might seem stupid to outsiders, but usually they have a reason. :U Either they are geniunely interested in those things, or else using it as something to talk about with their friends.
I wouldn't have described myself as a "typical" teenager, though, so… most of what I say is through observation. (It was what I did best. :Y)
As for Mary Sues… meh. That is related to writing experience, not with age.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2011 19:18:34 GMT -5
When they say that, I don't think they're being completely serious or straightforward. They could be writing that in anger, so not everything they say is rational. That said, they were pretty much spouting stereotypes, basing a worldview off a few bad experiences and presumptions. I'd suggest not getting too offended over it--pick your battles. ^^ Some things are not worth the anger. Some people are silly. With that in mind...hm. I wouldn't call 10- to 14-year-old girls stupid. It doesn't make much sense in my brain. I mean, when one calls them stupid, who are they comparing them to? College students? Full-fledged adults? That's hardly fair. Still, that may not literally be what they mean. They're probably complaining more about the inexperience than anything. Which...isn't fair. They're young. There isn't much to debate over, TBH. xD To which I respond: Well, I know for a fact that I was. Therefore, your argument is invalid. *brick'd*
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2011 19:20:45 GMT -5
Any statement of "fact" containing the word "all" or another such word are going to be false unless it's an already proven fact, and facts are generally logical and widely known, like the fact that all humans are mortal. This appears to be an opinion masquerading as fact. The basic argument they've put forward is this: Premise: All 10-14 year old girls like Miley Cyrus/use chatspeak/write fanfics, etc. Premise: Liking Miley Cyrus/using chatspeak/writing fanfic is stupid. Conclusion: All 10-14 year old girls are stupid. You can challenge just about every part of this. First, you can challenge the "all" part of the first premise and quote yourself as an example, but the real problem is with the second premise, which is not only an opinion, it's also a huge assumption. Is liking Miley Cyrus really stupid? Or is writing fanfic stupid? Are these things limited only to 10-14 year old girls, or mightn't there be adults who also like/do these sorts of things? Basically, I am 20 and I find it slightly offensive. It's a huge stereotype and not a good one to be labelled with, but at the end of the day, anyone with any sort of decency knows this is just a gross exaggeration and therefore not really worth the time of day. In short: it sucks, yeah, but you're awesome, so don't let it bother you. *hugs* True, we do learn more things, but unfortunately, there's a wisdom that children have that most people lose by the time they're adults. The gift of unconditional love and no prejudice. Is that why the 4 year old younger brother of a kid who attends my brother's school screamed and called me a *cough* ladydog when I smiled at him while picking my brother up? He probably didn't know what it meant. Or he's one of the unfortunate ones who lost it early. ;_;
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Post by selmette on Jul 27, 2011 19:26:00 GMT -5
people make generalizarions about girls within that age group because they are (unfortunately) usually true.
the most common 10-14-year-old girls tend to be extremely obsessive, hyper, and quick to defend something. this is a very broad statement, but because they haven't had much experience, they often can't fairly judge the quality of things like music or literature. young people also tend to be more sensitive and care more about others' opinions of them, which pressures them to like whatever is currently popular, regardless of the actual quality. i'm not sure what to say about the fanfiction.
it is insulting, yes, but there's not much you can do about the actions of other people. the only thing you can really do is defy the stereotypes and try to act sensible and intelligent both on and off the internet.
it is often said that age doesn't matter, but i disagree. i think it usually plays a large role in your reasoning and your outlook on life. as a girl of that age group who spends a fair amount of time on the internet, i've usually spent it trying to prove that young people are capable of decent creative skills, intelligence and serious debates with those much older than them. i'm beginning to doubt that, though.
young people lack wisdom and experience. this is a fact. humans are meant to experience and learn things, to endure situations that cause them to ask life questions as they age. in our society, children aren't much exposed to the "real world". you can't very fairly expect much from someone who has most likely experienced very little mental and emotional growth.
i don't want to give off the wrong impression here and say that every pre-teen/teenager is naive and has never suffered, because that's not true, and also not what i'm saying.
this is also kind of off-topic but sae, i think you're confusing the innocence of a child with something different. they see the world in a different light than most older people because the world is so new to them, and they are so curious because they know so little. that's not the same thing as wisdom.
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Post by Usikustars on Jul 27, 2011 19:33:07 GMT -5
*Comes back from hitting my head against the wall*
Wow, I wasn't expecting this many posts in so little time....
And also, just to put it out there, it's okay to express your opinion about this topic. It's just, the people on Subeta were very, very cruel about it. If it's done in a nice way, and you have more evidence than just the ones that they were saying, I don't mind it at all.
And if I came across aggressive, I'm sorry. I was just so angry at those jerks. :/
~EDIT~ (Dang, you ninja'd me Selm) XD I have to agree with you that young people lack experiences, Selm, and that we're very defensive (Just look at me). Many girls in my school are like what you describe, but on Subeta, they were saying that ALL girls 10-14 were like that, which was probably why I got angry. :/
And I bet that not even a quarter of my school knows what fanfics are. XD
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Post by Celestial on Jul 27, 2011 19:38:30 GMT -5
Not all of them, most definitely. I wasn't a model 10-14 year old but I certainly wasn't stupid. Flawed but not stupid. =P And I'm flawed now (in different ways, although some parts have remained). so that does not count for mucn. Most of my friends were the same so I can say that I was not alone in being a relatively smart 10-14 year old. Like most generalisations, that is a gross stereotype. Some do that stuff but certainly not all of them. Even then, liking that stuff does not mean you're stupid. You can still like Miley Cyrus and slash fic, heck anything the internet deems 'stupid' and still be a rational, thinking individual. I learnt that the hard way. =P
Inexperience does not equal stupidity. There is no cure for stupidity but a very effective cure for inexperience. Who knows? A shrill 10- 14 year old girl might be the person who in her adulthood discovers a world-changing medicine or scientific theory.
If those people believe that stuff then ironically, they are in a way just as stupid as the 10-14 year old girl stereotype they seem to hate so much. Judging people as a whole based on assumptions and such shallow things as hobbies and taste in music does not show much depth of thought either. Just saying. xD
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Post by Sq on Jul 27, 2011 19:42:41 GMT -5
Wait, what's wrong with 10-14 year old girls liking slashfic? As long as there's nothing explicit, that sounds pretty awesome to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2011 19:46:24 GMT -5
*Comes back from hitting my head against the wall* Wow, I wasn't expecting this many posts in so little time.... And also, just to put it out there, it's okay to express your opinion about this topic. It's just, the people on Subeta were very, very cruel about it. If it's done in a nice way, and you have more evidence than just the ones that they were saying, I don't mind it at all. And if I came across aggressive, I'm sorry. I was just so angry at those jerks. :/ Well you know us, we're a chatty group. *Thumbs up* And don't worry, dahling~ If people make such statements and say with the intent of being cruel, then they are indeed jerkish. >:U *Hugs* Don't worry too much about them. I have to wonder what brought the original comment on. ?__? It sounds like someone was really annoyed with some teen girls. But finding something annoying doesn't make it stupid. :B
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Post by Mel ♪ on Jul 27, 2011 19:47:56 GMT -5
Um, okay. As a fourteen year old girl, I am very much offended by this xD In all seriousness, though: the most common 10-14-year-old girls tend to be extremely obsessive, hyper, and quick to defend something. this is a very broad statement, but because they haven't had much experience, they often can't fairly judge the quality of things like music or literature. young people also tend to be more sensitive and care more about others' opinions of them, which pressures them to like whatever is currently popular, regardless of the actual quality. i'm not sure what to say about the fanfiction. Oh, I wouldn't know about that... Most girls of that age I know aren't obsessive and hyper. Of course, this might vary (based on which "group" you hang out with), but I certainly wouldn't say the obsessive-hyper-defensive type is "most common". However, I do agree that age does matter with reasoning and stuff. Wait, what's wrong with 10-14 year old girls liking slashfic? As long as there's nothing explicit, that sounds pretty awesome to me. I was wondering about this as well--there's nothing really wrong with liking Miley Cyrus and slash fics and stuff, right? And I think this person is making a huge assumption on many things. They might know one ten-fourteen year old who does these things, but that doesn't mean they all do.
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Post by Usikustars on Jul 27, 2011 19:51:40 GMT -5
At Mel and Squiesh:
Slash fics are explicit romance fan fictions, guys. It's got nothing to do with knives and swords. :/
And I've got nothing against people liking slash. I personally don't like it. I've read the begining of one before and I felt like I was invading their personal privacy. O___o
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Post by Mel ♪ on Jul 27, 2011 19:54:28 GMT -5
At Mel and Squiesh: Slash fics are explict romance fanfictions, guys. It's got nothing to do with knives and swords. :/ Oh. I didn't know that. I guess that's a bit of hypocrisy right there, talking about stuff I don't know about xDMy other points still stand, though.
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Abigail
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Post by Abigail on Jul 27, 2011 19:59:25 GMT -5
At Mel and Squiesh: Slash fics are explict romance fanfictions, guys. It's got nothing to do with knives and swords. :/ Not to mention characters are WAY out of character in most. D:
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