|
|
Post by Stephanie (swordlilly) on Jun 29, 2011 16:06:06 GMT -5
Source: CNNSo I had a debate with a friend yesterday about whether it's worth the effort to have kids in the future. She kept talking about it like it wasn't a rational investment, in terms of time, energy, and money. When I told her about the parents I know and how fulfilled they appear to be, she dismissed them as "case studies" and said that you have to look at the big picture, at more comprehensive findings like the above. My biggest problem with the conclusion that having children does not make you happy is that I don't think "being happy" is the point of living. There have been tons of stressful, frustrating, and sad (probably even depressive) moments in my life, but I feel like they've added meaning to my life. I feel like they've made me grow, and when I look back, I'd rather have experienced all those things than have spent all my time just chillin'. It's just... having kids in the future is a big dream of mine, and I don't want to be told that it's irrational or idealistic or even selfish. When parents express the difficulties of raising a child, the last thing they need is to be laughed at ("You're unhappy now? Well, you asked for it!"). Yes, parenting is a tough job, but lots of things in life are tough. Doesn't mean they're not fulfilling or meaningful. Umm, I rambled a bit there. But feel free to share your opinions on this topic! P.S. Of course, I don't even have a boyfriend yet, but one can always dream. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2011 16:13:16 GMT -5
I think it depends on the person. Some people are better suited to parenting than others, and we all have kids for different reasons. I actually think that better parents are probably happier because their kids don't rebel as much.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2011 16:21:22 GMT -5
Having the child itself, I don't think is the cause of depression. But it varies. Some women (or even men) get post-birth depression because it suddly dawns upon them, the major responsebility they now have... and doubts about whether or not they are able to take care of this little, new life they have created. Strife had a depression for a while because of just that.
Then comes the kind of depression you get because having a child is not cheap. And you feel horrible for not being able to give your child what all them 'rich folk' can give their children. I have gone to bed hungry so that I could save money to make sure my little girl could get her food. In the long run, it's not good for your mental health. Of course, in the US, it's probably worse because of their poor welfare system. I've seen plenty of American parents who are stressing over the 'college funds' for their child/children. Or if they can pay for the bill to see a doctor. And if they can afford the daycare so they can get a job.
I think the majority of the depressed parents are subject to the latter example, unfortunately. And that is not the child itself, but more a burden of parenthood. So to speak.
I wouldn't want to be without my child. Ever. And I would love to have more. At least two more. She makes me happy despite my worries. And it's so hard to explain. You have to experience it to understand fully. But yes. If the child is wanted, it definitely makes the parents happy.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dju on Jun 29, 2011 16:25:01 GMT -5
Oh, I don't know exactly what to think...I believe I'll never have children because they make me easily stressed, I don't want to eb one of those mothers who discount everything on their kids or don;t really want to give them attention.
But enough about me, my parents are doctors and both work with artificial insemination, so they know hundreds of couples that wish they could have children so badly, and it's really great when we see these couples with a baby on the groceries store all happy, enjoying the good and bad moments.
But some of them just forget about the bad moments, they expect to have a perfect kid that will only bring them joy and no challenges, I guess that it's such a big shock they go into depression, or maybe they realize that they are responsible for a life, they'll feel guilty if that little thing gets sad, or if they fail as parents.
|
|
|
|
Post by Luna on Jun 29, 2011 16:35:05 GMT -5
I don't think having a child would cause depression unless the child was accidental and they were to young, I mean if I had a child at 16 I would be kind of depressed. But, then again, some people want children, but can't have them, which would probably cause them to be sad.
Having a baby seems like something that would make someone so tired, but they would probably enjoy having it, then having a little kid would be fun even if they do misbehave sometimes, then the teens years where they rebel and things, then I would be so happy to see my child grow up into an adult.
But being a parent also means your in control of another living form you made. Parents have to deal with the thought of there children could possibly die or get kidnapped every day, and if they think there child is happy or not, and things like that.
I guess it really depends on the person.
|
|
|
|
Post by Komori on Jun 29, 2011 19:13:03 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree with Leoness's explanation of those studies. More responsibilities, more stress. Having children heaps loads of responsibilities on you, but loads of responsibilities could also come from other places. Maybe a spouse with a terminal illness, or trying to run your own small business, or being an officer in the military and being responsible for a squadron of soldiers. It just so happens that more people have kids than are army generals.
So it just sort of seems like common sense that parents would be more stressed than their childless counterparts. X3 Sometimes I think I'd like to have kids, but othertimes I think it'd be way more fun to go galavanting across the globe instead. :B ('Course, if I were rich, I could do both. XDD)
NOW, the study that I'D like to see is whether the elderly are happier as grandparents than as childless old people. The burden of rearing a child is over because your kids have grown up and had kids of their own. So now you've got a family to take care of you, as opposed to being all by your lonesome. (Though, of course, you could still make friends or take up social hobbies as an old person)
|
|
|
|
Post by Cow-winkle on Jun 30, 2011 1:15:25 GMT -5
What Leoness said. As for my own take on things:
If you did a study of stress in college students, I'd bet money you'd find that they had a lot more stress than non-students, but I don't think that means it's necessarily a horrible idea to go to college (even if, like having children, it's not for everyone). Happiness does not mean being giddy and stress-free 24/7, and I think people are often at their happiest when they've overcome challenges, big or small.
|
|
|
|
Post by M is for Morphine on Jun 30, 2011 2:51:19 GMT -5
That sort of reminds me of a different study, where parents exaggerate the emotional fulfillment children bring. The same article also mentions that the lower levels of happiness and life satisfaction are throughout the parenting years, and not just in the beginning where it could be justified by postpartum depression. It seems to me that these are quite linked. As a society we're constantly told that parenthood brings a special and unique sort of fulfillment. When you get to the age where all your friends are having children you get bombarded with the 'Oh, I'm experiencing joys that you non-parents will never understand' spiel. It puts a lot of pressure on the childless. It tells them that their life choice is wrong and they'll never get to experience the true depths of life and blah blah blah. People go in with these unrealistic expectations. Of course they're not going to be met. It's not for everyone and people should stop pretending it is. There are a lot of people who are going to get a lot out of having children, and that's great. However, I think there are many people who are not of the proper temperament for parenting who get chided into doing it anyway by friends, or parents, or their S.O. They become depressed because the magical joys in the brochure never materialize for them. I guess what I'm saying is; be realistic. Don't go into parenthood because you need to tick it off of some sort of 'how life should be' checklist. Do it because you like children. Also spend time around some to be sure. Did you do any babysitting as a teen? Also, I think you'll find many of the people with utterly no interest in children have done a lot of time in the retail sector. XD |
|
|
|
Post by Huntress on Jun 30, 2011 8:49:15 GMT -5
Yeah, it's pretty amazing how many illusions people can have regarding... well, everything they don't have direct personal experience with, actually. But especially kids. "Oh, children are so awesome and adorable and if they're being difficult, you're just doing something wrong and you should totally know what to do because you're the parent and parents can magically sense what solves the problem every single time" :'D
And parenting is made look very easy by the society, I'd think. If your kid acts up in public, you get the disapproving looks for being a bad parent. You're the Odd One Out. When it comes to parenting your kids, you're expected to excel at it, full stop. (Not that I can blame that attitude, nobody likes screaming kids at a classical concert, but it basically still means that all the hard parts of parenting are kept very much out of the way.) So people go into it not knowing what to expect, and possibly having a skewed sort of perception on top of it, of course it'll lead to more unhappiness than among the people who've never had to deal with the same thing. You'll basically be comparing a group with a major responsibility to a group with hugely varying levels of responsibility (for every childless stressed CEO there's a counterbalancing happy hippie) so the results of the survey are kind of a given. If anything, I'd like to know if anyone's compared childraising parents to childless CEOs and see what those numbers are like.
|
|
|
|
Post by Breakingchains on Jun 30, 2011 9:09:48 GMT -5
Yeah, I gotta concur with what Teow said. Our culture has a tendency to treat child-rearing like it should be the life goal of every human being; like it's the ultimate, universal happily-ever-after, and of course you want it, because... because!
Fact is, a lot of people are not cut out for the job at all. You're taking the development of a human being into your hands. Your choices about what lessons to teach and the example you set could very well lead to that kid being responsible and compassionate - or they could end up a horribly-behaved snot and make your life miserable for eighteen years. You're taking on a massive responsibility there. (And that $190,000 is something to think about, too.)
On the other hand, I'm sure it is emotionally fulfilling, for a lot of people. You've brought a new human being into the world. But whether you can handle the tough parts is something that takes honest self-assessment, and if needed, the courage to make a decision that many won't understand.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2011 14:57:03 GMT -5
It's ironic really, that you need a license to have a pet monkey... but anyone can just go and have child after child after child... which is exceptionally horried when the parents neglect/abuse their child. I've seen it a lot in my line of work, and every time I scream inside: "Whyyy do you have children if you don't want to take care of them?!"
To me, wanting a child was a 'calling' a 'desire'. I didn't feel it as a pressure from society. It just comes to you like a craving. I knew I wanted children when I was 18, but I am glad I didn't have any back then. Having a child also made me less fearful of death.
And yes, there is also the stress of how society/the government keeps an eye on you as a parent. If Cookie goes to daycare and the caregiver notices something she is concerned about, she has the right to report it to social services. Which probably makes a lot of first-time parents a tad paranoid, too.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2011 16:58:28 GMT -5
It's ironic really, that you need a license to have a pet monkey... but anyone can just go and have child after child after child... which is exceptionally horried when the parents neglect/abuse their child. I've seen it a lot in my line of work, and every time I scream inside: "Whyyy do you have children if you don't want to take care of them?!" To me, wanting a child was a 'calling' a 'desire'. I didn't feel it as a pressure from society. It just comes to you like a craving. I knew I wanted children when I was 18, but I am glad I didn't have any back then. Having a child also made me less fearful of death. And yes, there is also the stress of how society/the government keeps an eye on you as a parent. If Cookie goes to daycare and the caregiver notices something she is concerned about, she has the right to report it to social services. Which probably makes a lot of first-time parents a tad paranoid, too. I agree. I think that for people who really want them because they want to experience a new kind of love, it can be very wonderous, sort of a chance to rediscover yourself and especially if you want to help and guide a person. Of course, I wouldn't know since I'm nowhere near being a parent, I only know this stuff from daydreams. Leo, on the subject of the right to report things, I think that if you're an honestly good and non-abusive parent, you have nothing to worry about. When I was in daycare I used to have time-outs almost every day, but back then I was really little and didn't know any better, or couldn't really process the information. Now I do. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2011 20:43:34 GMT -5
That sort of reminds me of a different study, where parents exaggerate the emotional fulfillment children bring. The same article also mentions that the lower levels of happiness and life satisfaction are throughout the parenting years, and not just in the beginning where it could be justified by postpartum depression. Thing is, there are plenty of good reasons why that is. It stops us from going extinct when we realize just how much of a drag having kids is.  Not that that would be all that much of a problem. xD I agree with what you've said, and with most people in this thread, but I feel compelled to point out that this is fairly similar to a placebo effect, and while you can argue the morality of it for eternity, there's no denying that the effects are real. You believe it'll be fulfilling, and it feels fulfilling. |
|
|
|
Post by Stephanie (swordlilly) on Jun 30, 2011 20:48:48 GMT -5
Teow, that was beautifully said. I see more clearly now how it's really a personal lifestyle choice these days.
Well, I'll have several years to figure this out. XD I did some tutoring as a teen, and although most of the kids I worked with were from eighth to tenth grade, I did meet some of their younger siblings too. Sometimes teaching things like math concepts could get frustrating (both for the kid and for me), but overall I felt like it was really rewarding.
Yeah, I think I'd like to have kids in the future. ^^; Although there are lots of things beyond my control, like... What if I don't end up meeting someone I want to marry? What if the person I end up marrying doesn't want kids? What if I end up in a difficult financial situation? etc. But well, we'll see. :3
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2011 20:59:12 GMT -5
Yeah, I think I'd like to have kids in the future. ^^; Although there are lots of things beyond my control, like... What if I don't end up meeting someone I want to marry? What if the person I end up marrying doesn't want kids? What if I end up in a difficult financial situation? etc. But well, we'll see. :3 Well, it it helps, you're really pretty. ^_^ I've seen a few scattered photos of you and you're absolutely gorgeous, so I've no doubt you'll be able to check the first one off that little list there. I know looks aren't what's important, but there's no denying it's useful to have people looking and being interested. ^_~ |
|
Not that that would be all that much of a problem. xD I agree with what you've said, and with most people in this thread, but I feel compelled to point out that this is fairly similar to a placebo effect, and while you can argue the morality of it for eternity, there's no denying that the effects are real. You believe it'll be fulfilling, and it feels fulfilling.