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Post by Ted (the zombie Dalek) on May 15, 2015 21:08:18 GMT -5
Is it wrong to call a transgender person they? I was at the checkout for Banana Republic and wasn't sure of this person. The voice was what I associated with masculine, and a gentleman in front of me asked if I needed help. Just before that I heard the other person say, "Next!" I kept my eyes down and said, "He--" I looked up. Whoops. "They--said next first." I was not sure but through peripheral glances and polite conversation I found the person appeared to express as female. I couldn't judge and couldn't ask. This happened three months ago and I guess I'm looking for closure or an answer. Did I truly screw up...? From what I hear it's best to just ask, since you really can't tell much from the way someone looks. xD You could make an assumption based on how they present regardless of their body, but that doesn't always work. You could probably call them "they" informally if you don't know (as people use such gender-neutral language to talk about people in general anyways) but some people might think it invalidates their identity, akin to "it", etc. In my opinion, though, "they" is better than a wrong gendered pronoun (and many people go by "they" anyways, especially non-binary like Lizzie here on the forum) so that's probably the best thing you could have done in that short time frame (unless it specifically came up in conversation). As long as you correct yourself quietly rather than making a big scene out of it. ...and on top of that, in this culture it would be unreasonable to assume everyone is well-versed in transgender issues, so this person probably gets a lot of wrong pronouns regardless, and if they noticed, they're probably glad that you made the effort to correct yourself. I'm also a person who goes by "they", at least on the internet, and I'm always glad if someone doesn't presume to know my gender right off the bat. People irl tend to assume I'm female, and strangers on the internet almost invariably assume I'm male unless I tell them otherwise (even before I give them a name to call me by). Being non-binary is hard. I don't know enough binary-conforming transgender folk well enough to know their feelings on the matter though. What Coaster said seems to sum it up well.
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Post by Coaster on Jul 1, 2015 17:26:10 GMT -5
Surprised nobody's mentioned Friday's SCOTUS decision on this thread (although there was a bit on the Skype), so mention is warranted here. Huzzah. (commence short rant ahead) ...So, uh, how do you talk to people who are adamantly convinced that every single LGBTQ+ person or advocate has an agenda to force anyone they want to officiate their weddings, or to remove marriage from the constitution altogether, or ultimately just not rest until the church is gone (and ultimately that the whole point of the decision was about "forcing their lifestyle" on people, not having equal legal standing)? And people who selectively misinterpret any statements that "equal marriage is only a small step in LGBTQ+ issues" and deny that any discrimination (workplace, housing, education, getting murdered in the streets, etc.) still happens, solely on the basis that their workplace has an equal hiring policy? ._.,
(and also get their news almost exclusively from sensationalized conservative fundamentalist sources that treat the extreme left as mainstream, and refuse to educate themselves on the real issues, and don't listen when you try to explain in person because they're staunch believers in slippery slope reasoning, and take a "love the sinner, hate the sin" stance meaning "I'll ignore it and treat you as if you were heterosexual and cisgender, and get upset at you if you insist otherwise or ask me to change how I interact with you because that's persecution")
(seriously this person got it into his head that the "fifth letter in the acronym" is going to be P (the child-exploitation one) and that society will be forced to accept that too; I wanted to joke that they'd be a bit late to the punch since there's already at least 6 letters, but that would have been in poor taste so I just informed him that he might be misinformed)
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Post by Twillie on Jul 1, 2015 18:16:35 GMT -5
Coaster Well, unfortunately, I'm not sure you really can talk to those people in a sensible conversation. If they're that extreme in their beliefs and fears about a group of people different from them, it's unlikely they'll allow a voice from an opposing side reach them, especially if they surround themselves with people/media encouraging their opinions. I heard about the decision late that day, so I had to catch up while everyone was celebrating XD I'm not a member of the LGBTA Group, but I am a supporter of the decision. It gives the group the same marital rights as traditional couples, but it also does not remove rights from any party. No one is forced to do anything new, people are just allowed to do what they couldn't before.
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Post by Coaster on Jul 24, 2015 4:16:50 GMT -5
First off, I feel like with this chat at a fairly slow pace compared to former years, I've kinda been monopolizing it lately, and I'd like to apologize for that, or if it seems like I'm attention-seeking or anything like that. In any case, I'd still like to get some stuff off my chest, mostly regarding sexual orientation, because I really can't talk about it anywhere else or it'll just be fuel for arguments or awkwardness. Basically (comparing it to some of this chat's history), I'm kind of a mirror to Sock's story; that is, all my life before accepting myself as trans, I vehemently and proudly insisted I was asexual (or celibate, or just too focused on other things, or whatever terms I knew at the time), but lately, I can't deny the fact that I've only ever had any sort of romantic or sexual attraction or "crush" towards other girls. Infrequently and weakly even then, to be sure--or at least not to a degree I've ever felt confident enough to act on--and ironically only to people who would be staunchly ideologically opposed to being in a relationship with another girl anyways (as far as I know*), and I still don't think I'd want to have a kid with anyone, etc. etc. but by comparison I've distinctly never felt any attraction to guys thus far, and I can say that with much more certainty. (* One of said minor crushes has been a friend of a few years who has not divulged her own orientation either, but as it has lately turned out, she's pretty much the most directly supportive person in my transition so far, and I really don't want to make things awkward. >//>) Of course, nothing sexuality-related is set in stone 100% for me, particularly since I'm still pretty early in transition; I'm not sure if it just has to do with having a little more self-confidence/self-awareness, or having jealousy/aversion toward femininity/masculinity respectively that is too easily interpreted as sexual feelings or lack thereof (especially when I was still running on male hormones), or being generally open to being something other than a heterosexual cisgender male (which most of my social circles would take as evidence that letting myself be the right gender started some sort of "LGBT slippery slope", gasp, I'm turning liberal on them as if that's the worst of heresies and I might give them uncomfortable feelings or make them think about their views). Or if it's just some relic hammered into my head from my male upbringing that I'm going to shed as time goes on, because apparently transition can do that too sometimes. But I do recognize that when I viewed myself as a guy, I didn't want to have a relationship with anyone (men, women, or otherwise), because I couldn't imagine myself being the guy in any sort of relationship. So, particularly before I knew what being transgender was, I figured it meant--or at least would be simpler as--not being interested in relationships at all, even though there were still occasional girl-crushes. And even now, considering myself a girl, even if I try to think of myself (unrealistically) as 100% passable and fully transitioned and attractive and all that, I still don't feel any desire towards men in a sexual sense, and though I honestly would probably be fine with trying a strictly romantic relationship with any gender down the road, I don't think I could make it work in the end with anyone but a woman (short of "it would be nice to have a boyfriend in order to validate me as a girl" which is a dangerous train of thought anyways). And then I play with the idea of a relationship with a trans man because at least there's the shared experience and whatnot, but it still doesn't stick, and mostly it's just an appealing notion in that it would be the only loophole that would make a relationship indisputably "Bible-approved" because it's between a man and a woman regardless of which partner's considered the man and which one's the woman. Or maybe it's my own vestigial transphobia leaking out and subconsciously thinking of trans men as somehow-kinda-women (even though consciously I know that's a load of Kau dung, it's just the way a large group of people see things). I'unno; where I stand at this point, I just don't find masculinity attractive at all. Moreover, realizing "maybe I like girls after all" also throws me for a loop in that technically I could parent a blood-related child with a partner, but the thought of... using that for anything is still disturbing to me, especially to be a "father", not to mention that to preserve my ability to do so would require stopping transition right about now and either postponing it indefinitely or paying more money than I have (or care to spend on fertility at any point) in order to maintain that option as I transition. And even then, I live in a notoriously traditional/conservative social circle (and don't plan to ever leave it entirely), and it's already pushing (or shattering) the boundary enough that I'm transgender (and hard enough to explain even at its "easiest version" of asexual) without adding another controversy to the mix, and even then I still have my own upbringing that having a relationship on a physical level as a trans girl would be "wrong" no matter which way I went because I'm technically a guy with a guy, or functionally a girl with a girl, or overall not necessarily a man/woman with a woman/man. (...Really, this whole rant is pretty much just being honest in a safe place with no intention of making relationships a part of my life.) But there's still something about having a child that's related to you, and that unlike most trans people, I could technically still do that. And that's something that the conservative folk I associate with put high value and even a duty on, much higher than being true to yourself (which is actually a sin because deny yourself). So it's weird that I'm so actively, willingly giving that up regardless, with the only hang-up being the same field of expectations I discarded when I came out as trans anyways. I mean, come to think of it, I've already readily given up the privileges of being male, of being cisgender (or even "passing as" cisgender, possibly permanently), of having orthodox beliefs within my faith--basically, to be totally honest, from being in every dominant group to some of the most systematically disadvantaged (although to be fair I'll still be a first-world-residing Caucasian). Unless I miraculously started actively wanting to be a cisgender, heterosexual man who actually wants kids, having an "acceptable" family is impossible at this point anyways, so taking away the blood-relation possibility is a pretty small thing, and even adding "lesbian" to the cake wouldn't do much more. Besides, a lot of people (including same-sex couples) can't conceive by themselves anyways, and I've never exactly been tested to know that I would have been fertile in the best of cases. Short version of all that: I think it'd be fairly accurate to call myself a demiromantic/demisexual celibate most-likely-lesbian trans girl, which still feels really weird because I've always been surrounded by LGBTetc.-phobes (and that's a mouthful of titles regardless -_-). ...Incidentally, I had a thought that when sexuality and romantic orientations correspond we should have a word to describe it rather than having to declare both each time. And then I noticed that "sexantic" and "romosexual" are the most terrible portmanteaus imaginable.
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Post by Liou on Oct 11, 2015 15:55:51 GMT -5
>_> *sneaks into quiet thread* About three things I am absolutely positive. * First, I am a vampire do not identify as a girl (or as a boy for that matter) while being dfab. * Second, there is a part of me -and I don’t know how potent that part might be or what types of attraction it may involve- that thirsts for feminine- rather than masculine-presenting individuals. It also has a certain fascination for androgyny in general. To sum up, not straight. * Third, I might be floating somewhere on the asexuality spectrum. Not sure where- just not on either extremity. * Fourth, they/them/theirs pronouns sound really nice when I try them in my head, and I'd like to give them a try, please, if you remember. She/her/hers are quite fine too. Pronouns don't mean that much to me. And it would take me a while to adjust anyway. * Fifth, that's more than three things. * Sixth, I'm with you. * Seventh, I love you all. spoiler'd for shyness
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Post by Lizzie on Oct 11, 2015 16:17:04 GMT -5
while I can't sum it up as well as my bae Liou can, I'd also like to remind/inform everyone that I'm nonbinary (with they/them pronouns) and pansexual <3 (also, since idk if it's been mentioned here, we have a lgbtqa+ Skype chat! We would like to keep it to lgbtq+ people only at this time (as much as we love allies) but if you wanna join, feel free to pm or Skype me!)
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Post by Coaster on Feb 24, 2016 3:09:01 GMT -5
I feel like posting here but can't really think of much to say other than:
1. Got my legal designations changed and just need to apply it a few more places, joy of joys 2. Parents are actually willing to go to a support group for family of trans people, which is surprising 3. People I thought were at least tolerant are still coming out to me (even just today) as non-allies and telling me they sincerely think I should go "back to being a man", which is somewhat exasperating <_<
What do you do when people are generally respectful (and even use the right pronouns and name if asked politely, when applicable) but otherwise constantly let you know they're against someone being LGBTQA etc? Try to stick to it and convince them instead? Break off relations? Try to tolerate each other and agree to disagree?
Or from the other side, if you were in a situation where you thought someone was doing something self-detrimental, would you make an attempt to intervene, or leave it as their decision?
(sorry if this is terribly formulated; it's late evening and my brain is not in good shape right now)
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Post by Coaster on Apr 1, 2016 0:01:11 GMT -5
Happy Trans Day of Visibility, everyone (or, at least, the couple hours people in western timezones have). I don't really have a better place to put this, but to celebrate I put holes in my head and stuffed them with sparkly things. Which are apparently not as visible as I thought. I also wore my Designated LGBT™ shirt because awesome
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Post by Ian Wolf-Park on Jun 13, 2016 9:22:51 GMT -5
I'm not a LGBTA/LGBTQ person, but seeing as we have a strong community, have the Orlando shooting at a gay nightclub in your thoughts for the time being.
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Post by Carolyn on Jun 13, 2016 11:33:08 GMT -5
I just wanted to let my LGBTA+ friends and allies know that we stand behind and support you.
Spreading love is the best way to stop the hate. We care about each and every person here and want you to know that you're not alone.
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purple
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 117
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Post by purple on Jul 7, 2016 20:27:50 GMT -5
Hello I'm Hearher . I like anime, manga , reading and writing . I'm 21
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Post by Tiger on Jul 8, 2016 6:33:24 GMT -5
Hello I'm Hearher . I like anime, manga , reading and writing . I'm 21 Hi, Purple/Heather - are you sure you meant to post that here? This thread is meant for discussion about LGBTQA+-related topics; your post doesn't seem to be on topic?
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purple
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 117
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Post by purple on Jul 8, 2016 8:30:09 GMT -5
Sorry , I was just saying some things about me . What's with al,the hatred towards lgbtplus lately ? I'm pansexuul if it matters
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Post by Celestial on Jul 8, 2016 8:34:51 GMT -5
Sorry , I was just saying some things about me . What's with al,the hatred towards lgbtplus lately ? I'm pansexuul if it matters I am sorry if you percieved Tiger's post as hatred and I assure you, that was not the case. We are all very tolerant of LGBTQA+ people here and some of our moderators (myself included) are part of this group. However, your post was more of a general introduction more fitting of the Forum Gates. If you wish to join the group and state your sexuality, that's great! Just please specify that instead of just listing general information about yourself which much better belongs on a newbie welcoming thread, if only to prevent some confusion and let us know how you belong to the LGBTQA+ community.
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purple
Frequent Visitor
Posts: 117
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Post by purple on Jul 8, 2016 9:13:05 GMT -5
Sorry , I was just saying some things about me . What's with al,the hatred towards lgbtplus lately ? I'm pansexuul if it matters I am sorry if you percieved Tiger's post as hatred and I assure you, that was not the case. We are all very tolerant of LGBTQA+ people here and some of our moderators (myself included) are part of this group. However, your post was more of a general introduction more fitting of the Forum Gates. If you wish to join the group and state your sexuality, that's great! Just please specify that instead of just listing general information about yourself which much better belongs on a newbie welcoming thread, if only to prevent some confusion and let us know how you belong to the LGBTQA+ community. Im so sorry ! I didn't mean or preceive there post as hatred . I was saying about all the ant-lgbtplus things going on . My bad , I should have been more specific. I fit into the lgbtplus community by being a supporter , pan sexual , and engaged to my fiancee . I'm so sorry !
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