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Post by insanepurpleone on Jun 9, 2008 0:28:17 GMT -5
Villains are awesome (but you all know that)! I can't decide on a particular lamest or coolest villain off the top of my head, but I do like villains where you aren't actually sure if they are a villain or not (like Snape in Harry Potter - is he really evil?). Or when you think they're good and then you find out everything they did was actually some elaborate set-up for their evil plan. Those are the ones I love to hate. Also villains like Light Yagami from Death Note, who do bad things, but for what they believe is a good reason.
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Post by sarahleeadvent on Jun 11, 2008 20:17:22 GMT -5
Villains are awesome (but you all know that)! I can't decide on a particular lamest or coolest villain off the top of my head, but I do like villains where you aren't actually sure if they are a villain or not (like Snape in Harry Potter - is he really evil?). Or when you think they're good and then you find out everything they did was actually some elaborate set-up for their evil plan. Those are the ones I love to hate. Also villains like Light Yagami from Death Note, who do bad things, but for what they believe is a good reason. Ooh yeah, I like Light (although I prefer his Japanese name, Raito). Not the kind of character I connect with emotionally, but it's interesting how he's a villain, the protagonist, an anti-villain and an anti-hero all at the same time. (So what does that make him in the end?) |
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Post by Sabre on Jun 12, 2008 21:35:04 GMT -5
Can I join? Ooh yeah, I like Light (although I prefer his Japanese name, Raito). Not the kind of character I connect with emotionally, but it's interesting how he's a villain, the protagonist, an anti-villain and an anti-hero all at the same time. (So what does that make him in the end?) Really messed up? I thought his japanese name was Saura, like the kid from Kingdom Hearts, cause I heard his name meant Light. I read the first Death Note and spoiled the series for me by reading the end, even though... have you guys read the series, and if you haven't do you mind if I spoil? I think the lamest bad guys I can think of are the Sailor Moon ones, like the Ice lady in the movie with her crystal and stuff like that... My favorite bad guy? I would say Ganondorf, but I think that decision's been pushed on me by friends, so I'll think of a different one... Hmmm.... One's that don't leave me up half of the night, because I really need my sleep... so if I said one of my own villains is the coolest villain, would that be bad? |
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Post by PFA on Jun 12, 2008 22:44:00 GMT -5
Really messed up? I thought his japanese name was Saura, like the kid from Kingdom Hearts, cause I heard his name meant Light. I read the first Death Note and spoiled the series for me by reading the end, even though... have you guys read the series, and if you haven't do you mind if I spoil? ...Saura? *blinkblink* ...You mean Sora? XD; And as for spoilers, you can put them in a spoiler box, so people who don't want to read them don't have to. ^_^ Just type [ spoiler]*your spoilers here*[ /spoiler], without the spaces. Aaannnddd, um, this post needs more on-topic-ness. XD; So how about a general question! What kind of villains do YOU like best? Funny ones? Serious ones? Misunderstood ones? Personally, I seem to like villains who have some vaguely good-themed reason behind what they do, as a lot of my villains end up like that.  I guess they're easier to relate to that way. |
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Post by Komori on Jun 13, 2008 3:08:05 GMT -5
My biggest problem I find with some villains is how they can be supremely overpowered, then suddenly become comically defeatable, for no reason but to allow a comical hero to beat them.
Another annoying thing is when the villain is defeated without any actual work done by the hero, nor is the villain destroyed by their own villainry. They just die from completely unrelated-to-the-story reasons. Ugh, so unsatisfying. (I'm thinking of the villain in Enchanted) It's like if you were watching Darth Vadar and Skywalker duke it out with their lightsabers, then Vadar gets suddenly squashed by a landing spaceship. Very uncool.
Oh, and why is it that, in movies that take place in foreign countries, the villain always has a British accent, even when the character cannot possibly be British or have had any contact with anyone with that accent? The Pharaoh in Prince of Egypt had a British accent, Tai Lung in Kung Fu Panda has a British accent, and I know there are others that are resting right outside my brain right now (Shere Khan in Jungle Book, maybe?). I dunno, maybe it's supposed to make them sound more intelligent? It just weirds me out when they're the only ones with an accent.
Though, now that I'm thinking about it, Tai Lung in Kung Fu Panda was a great villain. He had perfectly-worked-out motivation, and a backstory that supported his motivations. You could completely understand him and why he did what he did, which is such a very powerful thing with villains. I love it when you can see how a villain became that villain, why they believe the things they believe, and the audience can wonder if they too wouldn't have acted in just the same manner. X-Men's Magneto is also a great example of a good-backstory villain.
((Wow, that was a bit of a ramble...))
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Post by Dice on Jun 13, 2008 5:03:51 GMT -5
My biggest problem I find with some villains is how they can be supremely overpowered, then suddenly become comically defeatable, for no reason but to allow a comical hero to beat them. Another annoying thing is when the villain is defeated without any actual work done by the hero, nor is the villain destroyed by their own villainry. They just die from completely unrelated-to-the-story reasons. Ugh, so unsatisfying. (I'm thinking of the villain in Enchanted) It's like if you were watching Darth Vadar and Skywalker duke it out with their lightsabers, then Vadar gets suddenly squashed by a landing spaceship. Very uncool. Oh, and why is it that, in movies that take place in foreign countries, the villain always has a British accent, even when the character cannot possibly be British or have had any contact with anyone with that accent? The Pharaoh in Prince of Egypt had a British accent, Tai Lung in Kung Fu Panda has a British accent, and I know there are others that are resting right outside my brain right now (Shere Khan in Jungle Book, maybe?). I dunno, maybe it's supposed to make them sound more intelligent? It just weirds me out when they're the only ones with an accent. Though, now that I'm thinking about it, Tai Lung in Kung Fu Panda was a great villain. He had perfectly-worked-out motivation, and a backstory that supported his motivations. You could completely understand him and why he did what he did, which is such a very powerful thing with villains. I love it when you can see how a villain became that villain, why they believe the things they believe, and the audience can wonder if they too wouldn't have acted in just the same manner. X-Men's Magneto is also a great example of a good-backstory villain. ((Wow, that was a bit of a ramble...)) I agree! I hate when the villains are depicted as really powerful, and then they just...lose. Most often to a bit of what I call an epic fail hero (that is, a hero who is very generic and doesn't do any work to bring the villain down). I like villains who are, first of all, truly villainous, and understandably villainous. I mean, the insanity card can be fun to work with (Joker, anyone? but then, even he has his reasons...), but I love great backstory, as you said, Komori. Magneto is one of my favorite characters in the X-Men comics <3 |
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Post by Jina on Jun 13, 2008 5:26:17 GMT -5
My biggest problem I find with some villains is how they can be supremely overpowered, then suddenly become comically defeatable, for no reason but to allow a comical hero to beat them. Another annoying thing is when the villain is defeated without any actual work done by the hero, nor is the villain destroyed by their own villainry. They just die from completely unrelated-to-the-story reasons. Ugh, so unsatisfying. (I'm thinking of the villain in Enchanted) It's like if you were watching Darth Vadar and Skywalker duke it out with their lightsabers, then Vadar gets suddenly squashed by a landing spaceship. Very uncool. Oh, and why is it that, in movies that take place in foreign countries, the villain always has a British accent, even when the character cannot possibly be British or have had any contact with anyone with that accent? The Pharaoh in Prince of Egypt had a British accent, Tai Lung in Kung Fu Panda has a British accent, and I know there are others that are resting right outside my brain right now (Shere Khan in Jungle Book, maybe?). I dunno, maybe it's supposed to make them sound more intelligent? It just weirds me out when they're the only ones with an accent. Though, now that I'm thinking about it, Tai Lung in Kung Fu Panda was a great villain. He had perfectly-worked-out motivation, and a backstory that supported his motivations. You could completely understand him and why he did what he did, which is such a very powerful thing with villains. I love it when you can see how a villain became that villain, why they believe the things they believe, and the audience can wonder if they too wouldn't have acted in just the same manner. X-Men's Magneto is also a great example of a good-backstory villain. ((Wow, that was a bit of a ramble...)) I agree! I hate when the villains are depicted as really powerful, and then they just...lose. Most often to a bit of what I call an epic fail hero (that is, a hero who is very generic and doesn't do any work to bring the villain down). I like villains who are, first of all, truly villainous, and understandably villainous. I mean, the insanity card can be fun to work with (Joker, anyone? but then, even he has his reasons...), but I love great backstory, as you said, Komori. Magneto is one of my favorite characters in the X-Men comics <3 Agreed. I like the villains that win, actually, or the villains that take some defeating. Easy ones are a waste of space. And yeah, I think I should join now that I have proclaimed that >.> Sign me up  |
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Post by Dice on Jun 13, 2008 11:51:09 GMT -5
Villains should win much more than they do. I mean, you'd think the people with less morals would do better, because they wouldn't be worrying about doing the right thing in every situation.
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Post by Sabre on Jun 13, 2008 15:53:53 GMT -5
True about how the villain in Enchanted wasn't killed by the main heros, but she wasn't exactly killed by unrelated-to-the-story reasons. Did you not see the squirrel on the pole-spikey-thingy? I agree that that little bit was kind of weird, but I don't see how they could've made Gizelle (sp?) defeat her without making her seem a bit more independant than her character really is. You know, I could really imagine Hollywood trying to push off something like the Vader scenario. This is why I'm probably going to go into movie productions as a career... Eh. My favorite kinds of villains are the possessed kinds, where the person that the villain originally was isn't at a fault, or much of one, at all but the possessor is. Does that make sense? |
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Post by Komori on Jun 13, 2008 16:32:05 GMT -5
True about how the villain in Enchanted wasn't killed by the main heros, but she wasn't exactly killed by unrelated-to-the-story reasons. Did you not see the squirrel on the pole-spikey-thingy? I agree that that little bit was kind of weird, but I don't see how they could've made Gizelle (sp?) defeat her without making her seem a bit more independant than her character really is. You know, I could really imagine Hollywood trying to push off something like the Vader scenario. This is why I'm probably going to go into movie productions as a career... Eh. My favorite kinds of villains are the possessed kinds, where the person that the villain originally was isn't at a fault, or much of one, at all but the possessor is. Does that make sense? ^You mean like the baddies in YuGiOh? They're almost all just posessed by bad spirits and such. Yeah, the squirrel tipped the weight over a little. But what was the point? I mean, it isn't like the villainess showed any sort of clutzyness or balance problems. It isn't like the squirrel even had any personal problems with the villainess either, so it was so unsatisfactory. |
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Post by sarahleeadvent on Jun 14, 2008 1:28:21 GMT -5
Whee, the thread is moving again! My favorite bad guy? I would say Ganondorf, but I think that decision's been pushed on me by friends, so I'll think of a different one... Hmmm.... One's that don't leave me up half of the night, because I really need my sleep... so if I said one of my own villains is the coolest villain, would that be bad? I don't see why. If they're your favorite, they're your favorite, no matter who wrote them.  Aaannnddd, um, this post needs more on-topic-ness. XD; So how about a general question! What kind of villains do YOU like best? Funny ones? Serious ones? Misunderstood ones? Personally, I seem to like villains who have some vaguely good-themed reason behind what they do, as a lot of my villains end up like that. I guess they're easier to relate to that way. I like villains who are the good guys of their own side, or who have a darn good reason for being the way they are. My aforementioned favorite, Kisame Hoshigaki, largely comes across as a good kid who was raised wrong, which I think is a good formula for a cool villain. My biggest problem I find with some villains is how they can be supremely overpowered, then suddenly become comically defeatable, for no reason but to allow a comical hero to beat them. Agh. I haven't seen many examples of that, but that does sound like a sad cop-out. Although it does bring to mind one technique that I've come to like in the field of creating villains: putting them at a major disadvantage. Masashi Kishimoto does that a couple times in the Naruto series: virtually unbeatable people die of illness etc. in mid-battle instead of being killed by their opponents. That can seem like a cop-out if done poorly, but it also makes you think, Wow, this guy was that powerful even when he was on his last legs? What must he have been like at full health?! I also like it when the villains go easy on their opponents for some reason, but still win- I think it's interesting when the villains aren't trying to kill their opponents, because then the protagonists can survive without making the villain seem weaker. Ooh, yeah, villains' backstories are fun to come up with and to read about- they tend to be tragic and poignant, when the storyteller is trying to come up with something good. Have you ever noticed the personalities of your villains (or your characters in general) changing as you make up their backstories? I do on quite a few occasions, and I think that's a good thing- after all, it's where they come from that creates who they are. |
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Post by Sabre on Jun 14, 2008 10:41:46 GMT -5
^You mean like the baddies in YuGiOh? They're almost all just posessed by bad spirits and such. Yeah, the squirrel tipped the weight over a little. But what was the point? I mean, it isn't like the villainess showed any sort of clutzyness or balance problems. It isn't like the squirrel even had any personal problems with the villainess either, so it was so unsatisfactory. I don't really watch Yu-Gi-Oh!... I think I liked Bakura a little, but I really didn't watch enough to get a good grasp of his character. I think my main problem with the villain in Enchanted was that she was a little over the top, and the most originality she showed was when she pushed Gizelle(sp?) over the edge of the well, and then when she kidnapped the modern dude (I love forgetting names). I know she was based off of a stereotype, but I think that Gizelle had more originality than she, even if she did have a supercool bad villainy outfit and look in the real world.
I know the squirrels problem! *raises hand* The Queen was about to kill Gizelle and the one dude and he had to stop her!
The ending did lack a little, though I did like how they resolved everything. A lot of movies nowadays cut off right after they defeat the villain instead of showing how they get out of a place (if they're cut off on an island or something) and I'm glad they actually rounded it out. |
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Post by PFA on Jun 14, 2008 12:55:54 GMT -5
Have you ever noticed the personalities of your villains (or your characters in general) changing as you make up their backstories? I do on quite a few occasions, and I think that's a good thing- after all, it's where they come from that creates who they are. Oh, very much so, yes. There's this one group of villains I have that were, for the longest time, just kind of "mwahaha I'm going to kill you all." Then when I came up with a certain detail of their backstory... well, I started getting an entirely new take on them. They actually feel somewhat human to me now, rather than just being coldhearted monsters like they were before. I like it; it makes the story that much more interesting. ^_^ |
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Post by Elcie on Jun 14, 2008 15:26:59 GMT -5
Villains are awesome (but you all know that)! I can't decide on a particular lamest or coolest villain off the top of my head, but I do like villains where you aren't actually sure if they are a villain or not (like Snape in Harry Potter - is he really evil?). Or when you think they're good and then you find out everything they did was actually some elaborate set-up for their evil plan. Those are the ones I love to hate. Also villains like Light Yagami from Death Note, who do bad things, but for what they believe is a good reason. Ooh yeah, I like Light (although I prefer his Japanese name, Raito). Not the kind of character I connect with emotionally, but it's interesting how he's a villain, the protagonist, an anti-villain and an anti-hero all at the same time. (So what does that make him in the end?) I totally agree on that - Death Note in general isn't the sort of anime that really gets an emotional reaction out of me... much as I love some of the characters, it's not like some series where you just end up liking and rooting for certain characters. It more appeals to logic and intelligence than emotions, because rather than thinking "ooh, go Light" I'm thinking "ooh, I can't wait to see what Light does next/how he avoids L/how he'll get out of this," etc. Villains like that are such fun! What I don't like is when you can't tell who isn't a villain. I mean, not like Death Note where you don't necessarily identify with anyone, but where you just plain don't like any of them and they all have pretty corrupt motivations. Not that a good anti-hero isn't fun, but I think anti-heros have to have at least something redeeming to keep them from just being a jerk or a villain. |
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Post by sarahleeadvent on Jun 14, 2008 20:18:50 GMT -5
What I don't like is when you can't tell who isn't a villain. I mean, not like Death Note where you don't necessarily identify with anyone, but where you just plain don't like any of them and they all have pretty corrupt motivations. Not that a good anti-hero isn't fun, but I think anti-heros have to have at least something redeeming to keep them from just being a jerk or a villain. Ugh, yeah, I hate that. It's a large part of the reason why I was unimpressed with PotC II; almost everybody's loyalties went flailing all over the place, to the point where I lost interest in rooting for them. |
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I guess they're easier to relate to that way.
