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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2008 12:25:14 GMT -5
Being an actor, I often look at villains from the perspective of "If I were playing this part, how much fun would it be?" Of course, most of the time the villains are the most fun parts to play. I was Captain Hook once, and let me tell you--probably the best part I've ever had. Some of my favorite villains are the ones who always act so cultured and refined--but at the same time, they're bloodthirsty and, well, evil. Another good example of this is--though a lot of you probably haven't seen it--Gul Dukat, from Deep Space 9. I loved his character for a number of reasons. As I said, he had this great cultured, almost intellectual air about him...but despite that, and sometimes because of that, you could tell how truly evil he really was. For another thing, his personality meshed amazingly with Captain Sisko's. They were both these very powerful leaders with very declamatory ways of speaking. On the other end of the spectrum, I also really liked Bellatrix Lestrange (from Harry Potter, though most of you probably know that). She was an amazing sadist--not just because she enjoyed killing, but because she really enjoyed killing, if that makes sense. In fact, I also liked how she came across in the movie--just the way she spoke sounded a bit hysterical and insane. Again, must have been a really fun part to play. Oh, and her name is awesome. Oh me too! I haven't seen as much of DS9 as I would have liked, but I really do like what I've seen of Dukat. ...Cardassians are just cool anyway, though. XDDD I hated Bellatrix, but I did love her portrayal in the movie. In fact, come to think of it... she reminds me a LOT of my OC, Cenylixe... >_> Who is twisted, sadistic, and... actually could be worse than Bellatrix is, really... I hate her too, you know. XDDD Since this is a writers' forum, here is something to discuss: Writing villains. Is it easy? Hard? What sorts of villains do you prefer in your stories? Or do you leave villains out entirely, preferring your heroes to struggle against something internal or inhuman? Writing villains are so much more fun that writing heros. But you've seen Ares, haven't you?  So much fun to write <3 Making villians more than just the average saturday-morning cartoon bad guy is kind of hard though. You revert back to the bad punchlines and wimpy bad boys(and girls) But making bad guys with complex personalities and motives for why they are bad is a lot of fun. And the way I see it, we're all a little bad, right? When we write/create villians, its a way of getting out a little of our inner villains. [/END PSYCHOLOGY ANSWER] EDIT: Oh yeah, I wanna join! *puts on Hades costume* |
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Post by Amneiger on Apr 4, 2008 16:02:36 GMT -5
Hmm, villains...I like Durandal from the Marathon games.  Probably because he has the best lines ever; he's smug and sarcastic and insane and you can feel it in every word he says. Quoting him is fun xD He is allied with the good guys, but it's pretty obvious that the only criteria Durandal uses for deciding what to do is what will benefit Durandal most. Just about every interplanetary empire starts to panic when they hear that he's in their systems, because they never quite know what he's going to do next. Maybe I should get a Marathon avatar someday ... [/incoherent rabidness] I'm not sure who the lamest villain I've ever seen is ... let me think about it. Edit: And I guess this means I'm automatically added to the club xD |
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Post by Sarahleeabsent on Apr 7, 2008 5:31:58 GMT -5
Since this is a writers' forum, here is something to discuss: Writing villains. Is it easy? Hard? What sorts of villains do you prefer in your stories? Or do you leave villains out entirely, preferring your heroes to struggle against something internal or inhuman? Writing villains are so much more fun that writing heros. But you've seen Ares, haven't you? So much fun to write <3 Making villians more than just the average saturday-morning cartoon bad guy is kind of hard though. You revert back to the bad punchlines and wimpy bad boys(and girls) But making bad guys with complex personalities and motives for why they are bad is a lot of fun. I think writing villains is a whole lot easier than writing heroes. Why? Because heroes are cliche. Super powerful ones are overused (and not very interesting), and so people flock to using weak ones. Which, as a result, gets overused. So people start using average heroes. You get where I'm going with this. And that's just the strength level- personalities get cliched, too. Name a hero type, and dozens of people have probably already used it, so the only way to make a really outstanding hero is to delve deep enough into their minds to find something original, human and relatable beneath the stereotyed surface and situation. Villains, on the other hand, have one predominant cliche that overshadows all the minor ones such as red eyes and monologuing- namely, evil. Bad villains are either stupid or pure evil- or, at worst, both. A smart and/or quirky pure-evil villain can be fairly interesting, but all that you really have to do to break an antagonist out of the mold is make them care for something. Maybe even make part of their motives good, or make them think they're doing a good work when they're really doing something evil. Long rant short, villains are definitely easier, if only because writing good villains is a less crowded field. I even find their backstories to be easier to create and match to their personalities, because I have a thing for characters with harsh pasts, and cruel pasts often create cruel characters. So, what do I like to see in a villain? Somebody with some obviously evil attributes, unclear or partly honorable motives, and either a clear indication or distinct possibility that their heart still beats for something. And a couple of entertaining quirks are nice to have, too, as long as it doesn't lean too far and topple into the realm of goofy slapstick. |
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Post by Amneiger on Apr 7, 2008 23:19:03 GMT -5
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Post by Komori on Apr 8, 2008 0:24:55 GMT -5
Oh my goodness, that website is brilliant. <3 I could spend hours reading through all those definitions and terms and great story stuff! <3 Thanks for the links! |
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Post by Amneiger on Apr 8, 2008 2:07:54 GMT -5
Oh my goodness, that website is brilliant. <3 I could spend hours reading through all those definitions and terms and great story stuff! <3 Thanks for the links! You're welcome That's one of my favorite sites too. |
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Post by Nature on Apr 8, 2008 9:35:53 GMT -5
I hated Bellatrix, but I did love her portrayal in the movie. In fact, come to think of it... she reminds me a LOT of my OC, Cenylixe... >_> Who is twisted, sadistic, and... actually could be worse than Bellatrix is, really... I hate her too, you know. XDDD . . . Bellatrix kinda reminds me of Larxene on angry mode. 0_o' Not only that, but Cenylixe also has a strange addiction to Mullet-boy over here. Was Bella (if she minds me calling her that) obsessed with someone? I mean, sadists are usually obsessed with someone . . . to torture. (Poor Axel; never got over the zaps. >_<) One of the disadvantages of being inside the Org. is that you will almost always be compared with an Akatsuki gang member. Still, I wanna join 'em Nobodies. ;D |
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Post by sarahleeadvent on May 16, 2008 21:30:56 GMT -5
On the subject of interesting villains... I used to think Itachi Uchiha from the Naruto series was absolutely the coolest villain I'd ever come across, despite having a name that sounds suspiciously like a sneeze. (The following is in a spoiler tag for a VERY good reason- if you are a fan of Naruto and have not read the most recent Manga chapters, fear to click here.) Seriously, a villain who very deliberately leaves his kid brother alive despite having ruthlessly taken part in the slaughter of the rest of the clan? That practially screams that there's a very profound third dimension to his cold, solemn personality, and the reason for him sparing Sasuke has been the source of much speculation among fans, myself included. (I also found it interesting that he'd shown little interest in killing Leaf ninjas... hmm.) And he also instructed Sasuke to try to become strong enough to kill him... more speculation ensues.
So then, the battle takes place, vengeful Sasuke versus calm, serene Itachi. (I can't get over the supremely stupid name.) Sasuke questions Itachi. And Itachi finally consents to explain his motivations...
Only to reveal that taking Sasuke's (preferably Mangekyo) Sharingan eyes would save Itachi from blindness. This being the only reason he'd killed the clan and left Sasuke alive- so that Sasuke's hatred would drive him to obtain the Mangekyo for Itachi to steal.
*HEAD-DESK!* After all that speculation, all that time I spent thinking that Itachi was the most interesting antagonist ever invented, I find out he's nothing more than a souped-up thug. *Head-desk* And the sad part is, Masashi Kishimoto is an awesome storyteller who could have done SO much better. I have no idea why he didn't. *Head...* well, you get it. Another extremely spoilerful comment: Ooh, I take it back. Kishimoto-sensei, how could I ever have doubted you? Turns out, Itachi was BSing Sasuke when he gave him the eye story. He'd killed the clan to prevent them from pulling a coup d'etat, and deliberately said things to increase Sasuke's resulting hatred to give the bereaved brother revenge as a purpose in life and a reason to become strong enough to defend himself. So it turns out, he isn't even a villain- he's a very tragic anti-hero. Now I feel sorry for him.  |
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Post by Celestial on May 17, 2008 16:11:25 GMT -5
I want to join this club, it is awesome! ^_^ Besides, villains are usually a lot cooler than the protagists, they deserve more love.
Lamest villain ever? Hmm...I don't know, all villains are cool in some way even if you laugh at how bad they are that still contributes to their 'cool' factor (a classic example of 'So bad it is good' XD).
Greatest villain ever? :3 You shouldn't have asked that question. *goes into fangirl mode and rants on and on about the greatest villain even in her opinion*
Sorry. ^^;;
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Post by PFA on May 17, 2008 16:47:23 GMT -5
>_> You know, I was considering joining this, so might as well do it now, rather than the never-arriving later. *shameless villain fangirl* *joins*
I could never pick a lame villain, I don't think. XD;; Even the supposedly lame villains can be fun to watch, if just for how overly exaggerated/cliche they are... though I suppose the genre has to do with it, somewhat. If it's meant to be a serious, dark story and you have an overly cliche villain, then that would be pretty bad. But if it's for, say, younger audiences (like in NT stories, possibly), then having a dark and murderous villain would probably be a bit harsh. It all depends on what audience you're trying to attract. *nodnod*
As for best villain, I don't know that I can think of any villain in particular that I've liked. XD;; If I think of one, though, I'll get back to you.
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Post by Komori on May 17, 2008 23:05:03 GMT -5
^___^ Added you both!
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Post by Elcie on May 18, 2008 7:23:08 GMT -5
I want to join this club, it is awesome! ^_^ Besides, villains are usually a lot cooler than the protagists, they deserve more love. Lamest villain ever? Hmm...I don't know, all villains are cool in some way even if you laugh at how bad they are that still contributes to their 'cool' factor (a classic example of 'So bad it is good' XD). Greatest villain ever? :3 You shouldn't have asked that question. *goes into fangirl mode and rants on and on about the greatest villain even in her opinion* Sorry. ^^;; That is true. xD Villains get away with lameness MUCH more easily than protagonists get away with lameness. A lame protagonist is just plain lame, but lame villains are often "so bad they're good." |
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Post by Komori on May 18, 2008 12:13:33 GMT -5
Has anyone seen The Amazing Screw-on Head? It's a crazy comic (and animated short) written by Mike Mignola, creator of Hellboy. I don't know what kind of genre to put it in... maybe bizzare superhero? The president is Abraham Lincoln but the time period's set after WWI (I think), and there are vampires and zombies and werewolves and maybe Nazis? And the hero is a robotic head who can attach itself to various robotic bodies. (I actually haven't read the comic, only just watched the animated short) It's pretty stupid and random and makes very little sense, but the villain's kinda' interesting. His name is Emperor Zombie, and he's the former butler of the main character, Screw-on Head. And it seems his life (or non-life) is devoted to doing things that make Screw-on Head irritated, including taking over the world or kidnapping SoH's girlfriend and making her a vampire. It's just ridiculous enough to be kinda' funny. I could never pick a lame villain, I don't think. XD;; Even the supposedly lame villains can be fun to watch, if just for how overly exaggerated/cliche they are... though I suppose the genre has to do with it, somewhat. If it's meant to be a serious, dark story and you have an overly cliche villain, then that would be pretty bad. But if it's for, say, younger audiences (like in NT stories, possibly), then having a dark and murderous villain would probably be a bit harsh. It all depends on what audience you're trying to attract. *nodnod* I'm not just talking about an overly silly or cliche villain. I'm talking about one who never reaches full villain potential. Ones whos motivations are never clear, who don't make sense in the context of the story. I have to change my mind from the worst villain ever, from whatever it was at the beginning of this thread, because I have seen an even worse villain since then. Has anyone ever watched Swan Princess? That baddie was the worst villain in animated movie history. First he was the mysterious dark sorceror like Ganondorf in Zelda. You know, the really powerful villain who's just plain evil. Then he turned into this dorky song-and-dance I-just-wanna-be-me villain. And his motivations changed like mad. First he wanted to rule the kingdom, then he just wanted to destroy the kingdom, then he just hated the king, then he was lusting after the princess, and then he just wanted to cause a ruckus... all without any reason to change! He was so undefined as a villain, it was like watching three or four vastly different types of villains all squashed together into some horrendous jumble of a man. XD |
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Post by PFA on May 18, 2008 14:13:56 GMT -5
I could never pick a lame villain, I don't think. XD;; Even the supposedly lame villains can be fun to watch, if just for how overly exaggerated/cliche they are... though I suppose the genre has to do with it, somewhat. If it's meant to be a serious, dark story and you have an overly cliche villain, then that would be pretty bad. But if it's for, say, younger audiences (like in NT stories, possibly), then having a dark and murderous villain would probably be a bit harsh. It all depends on what audience you're trying to attract. *nodnod* I'm not just talking about an overly silly or cliche villain. I'm talking about one who never reaches full villain potential. Ones whos motivations are never clear, who don't make sense in the context of the story. Hmmm. In that case, I don't know. XDDD; I'm not sure I've seen enough villains to really judge... I'll see if I can think of any, though. And I agree with Elcie. :3 Villains can get away with pretty much anything and can still be good villains. There's just so many possibilities... *is now getting weird mental images of a villain guy that just so desperately wants to have a perfect tea party* "DRINK YOUR TEA THE RIGHT WAY OR I STAB YOU CLEAN THROUGH!" ... XDDDDD I have the strangest urge to try and write a villain like that now. I don't know what I'd use him for though... |
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Post by Celestial on May 18, 2008 14:56:09 GMT -5
I'm not just talking about an overly silly or cliche villain. I'm talking about one who never reaches full villain potential. Ones whos motivations are never clear, who don't make sense in the context of the story. Hmmm. In that case, I don't know. XDDD; I'm not sure I've seen enough villains to really judge... I'll see if I can think of any, though. And I agree with Elcie. :3 Villains can get away with pretty much anything and can still be good villains. There's just so many possibilities... *is now getting weird mental images of a villain guy that just so desperately wants to have a perfect tea party* "DRINK YOUR TEA THE RIGHT WAY OR I STAB YOU CLEAN THROUGH!" ... XDDDDD I have the strangest urge to try and write a villain like that now. I don't know what I'd use him for though... That is probably because villains have a much broader spectrum than heroes. Heroes are expected to stop the villian most of the time and villains are expected to do...something. XD One word: parody. :3 Or rather, a parody of a big dinner party but make it a tea party instead. That should be something to see. ((*sees the avatar on the front page* :3333)) |
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So much fun to write <3
Probably because he has the best lines ever; he's smug and sarcastic and insane and you can feel it in every word he says. Quoting him is fun xD He is allied with the good guys, but it's pretty obvious that the only criteria Durandal uses for deciding what to do is what will benefit Durandal most. Just about every interplanetary empire starts to panic when they hear that he's in their systems, because they never quite know what he's going to do next. Maybe I should get a Marathon avatar someday ... [/incoherent rabidness]
