Disputable T-shirt Messages

[Kiddo]

Patjade said:

Is this what you want in school? After all, it is an institute for education, not a public forum your agenda. I don't think many people would agree with this, though.

I believe school is more than just an institution for education - I believe part of it's duty is to prepare you for life on your own outside of the family and outside of school. I learned a lot of lessons in school simply because my parents refused to step in and sugarcoat things. In my mind, t-shirts are the same way. You either learn to accept other beliefs or not.

I for one participated in the Day of Silence, or Silent Solidarity as it was called up here. We were each given a t-shirt to wear and a card explaining who we were representing and why we weren't speaking. I was representing someone who was blind, which was incredibly special to me as less than a month earlier my dad underwent a surgery to prevent him from going blind. And it is incredible what not speaking does - it's like you no longer exist, especially in class.

Anyways. I'm getting off on a tangent. All ideas should be allowed to be expressed, but again, the person expressing them should be aware and ready for any consequences. I have quite a few beliefs that would be considered 'wrong' by many people and when I'm not comfortable defending them I keep my mouth shut.

I am a firm believer that you are allowed to argue your side of a position. For instance, do you want to know WHY I hate ethnic studies here at BG and why I think the whole political correctness movement is a load of bull? And why I believe the gay movement is going about it the entirily wrong way?

We were given a sheet listing ways to tell if you're homophobic. One of those listings was "arguing against gay rights."

By the teacher who was "omg silent solidarity yayayayyay!!"

It wasn't just her either. Everyone in going through that curriculem gets one.

Too often in the course of trying to protect someone's freedom of speech we wind up robbing someone else of theirs.

It's either all or nothing. And I say step on people's toes. Backbones are an important thing to grow.

[TheEaterofWorlds]

Very eloquently put, Kiddo.

I for one hate 'Political correctness'. It seems like the opposite of logic. Someone somewhere might get offended by the way you word things! Oh no! Better use the PC version despite the fact it means the same thing. Wouldn't it be better to have a more honest society who said what was on their minds? Then, if/when someone gets offended, you and they can sit down and have a rational, honest discussion about what offended them, what your intent was, what you both think and walk away from the conversation a little more enlightened. Instead of pretending what offends us doesn't exist, air it out and see if we can get something done.

Like in Linny's post where a teacher told her that 'mankind' wasn't PC. Man, woman = mankind. Some people get angry because they think it's somehow degrading. However it's not really the word that's the problem, it's the attitudes of people who think that women are lesser than men. If someone doesn't have that attitude, then the word shouldn't be seen as carrying that connotation when they use it. Or is that too complicated? Are people just to lazy to talk to someone and find out what they really mean, instead of getting caught up in the context of words?

Sometimes it seems like words get in the way of conversation. ^^;;

(That list seems silly... wouldn't you, of all people, know if you're homophobic or not? It's not really a list to see if you're thinking wrong, it's something to see if you're thinking the way the teacher is...) But I digress.

Sometimes the biggest gift someone can give you is to disagree with you. We have to meet and talk to people with different opinions then ours. It helps us shape our beliefs, it helps us learn to interact with and be tolerant of people. Sometimes it ticks you off, but we need to be able to hear all points of views to move towards a more understanding society.

Most importantly, sometimes when you listen to others, you can change your mind. I think that's one of the hardest things for any person to do- admit that someone else may be right! Or that they have a valid point. Why do we think we're going to change someone's minds when we refuse to let someone change ours?

[irishdragonlord]

Silly, silly EoW! Don't you know that 'wet' and 'damp' are as different as 'destroy' and 'ruin'?

And I say it shouldn't be mankind! It should homo-sapienkind! And that person isn't an orphan - he's parentally challenged! And he's not short or fat, he's vertically and horizontally challenged! And I didn't get a tooth pulled, it was extracted!

People these days, so rude...

Disclaimer: If you didn't hear the sarcasm in that, get airholes drilled in your skull passages made to bring oxygen to your brain.

[Squirrelgirl]

This thing on Political Correctness is making me think of my English Teacher's, who is a woman, rant on how the women's rights thing destroyed some of the English language since when there are groups in which men and women are included we used to just use the masculine form like in, "Has anyone lost his sweater?" Since women complained that this was biased, the correct form had to change to, "Has anyone lost his or her sweater?" which sounds really, really awkward. Since it sounded so awkward, people substituted the "his or her" for, "Has anyone lost their sweater?" which is incorrect grammar. Now, to avoid sounding awkward or using bad grammar, you have to change the whole sentence. PCness is stupid.

And there's a lesson in grammar for all of you.

Anyway, in my opinion uniforms are your best bet. No one gets offended and there's no controversy that way. Of course, I've worn uniforms my whole life, so this might be why I think such...

[Buddy]

Patjade said:

Then the only REAL solution would be to ban shirts that have ANYTHING written or printed on them. No sayings. No logos. No designs. No tags. Nothing. A plain white shirt, pocket optional. Same for pants. Plain black slacks. For shoes, perhaps black Oxfords or Mary Janes. Period.

That way, there is nothing to offend anyone. No "Colors", no brands, no phrases. No associations.

Is this what you want in school? After all, it is an institute for education, not a public forum your agenda. I don't think many people would agree with this, though.

Uhhh... I don't quite understand what you're talking about. Would you mind clarifing? I mean, I thought Comedian had a fair compromise there...

Anyways, I agree with TEoW on everything. In fact, I usually agree with TEoW. I'm just like her! Only... younger... and not a girl...

*coughcough*

[Patjade]

I was making a point by going to the opposite extreme. It's nice to see that some people caught and argued it. We are not ALL cut out of as cookie cutter, and we must respect each other for the diffrences represented, and show tolerance for those differences, even if you don't approve or can't accept it for yourselves.

[Killix]

The whole offensive clothing thing is why some schools have uniforms.

With uniforms everyone is equal and unoffended.

[theunorthodox]

If someone walked into my class wearing a "Friends don't let Friend's go to Hell" shirt, I wouldn't care.

However, If that particular someone started preaching to me about how I am going to hell for not agreeing with their beliefs, I would be very angry and probably give them a severe tongue-lashing.


That sorta sums up how I feel on the subject.

[Rider]

[glow=red,2,300]Oh, people can wear whatever they want. They just have to be prepared to defend what they're wearing. I understand the shirts about Bush, about Religion, even about homosexuals. (I support homosexual rights. But I'm heterosexual.) They should just be prepared for me to debate them if I have the spare time. ;D

The absolute WORST kind of shirt is the kind that creates controversy because of their lame attempts to be humorous. One such example was that shirt by Abercrombie that said, "Two Wongs can make a white." As an Asian, I was deeply offended by that. To this day I will not set foot in an Abercrombie store. I'm all for free speech, but at least say something intelligent, please.[/glow]

[Jessica Coconut]

Hmm. I personally don't care. I would like to state that Kiddo made an excellent point, and TEoW sums up my beliefs on the topic perfectly in that the best gift someone can give you can give you conversationally, is to disagree with you.

It forces you to question your beliefs, examine them, really put them to the test, and it really attaches you to them more, when you have to defend them.

I mean, if everyone agrees, what's there to show there's a better way? Beliefs and idea's must be challenged, or no development can be made. Things would stay the same forever. Constructive criticism is a wonderful thing.

Clothes? HAHA... read the topic on nudist colonies. An excellent point, though I don't agree with it.

Personally, I don't mind politically correctness. You can use it if you want, or not. But I do prefer hearing FireFighters and things. Sometimes, not having it is worse than you think. I mean, for pete's sake, there's no feminine word for Chef in french. Until modern times, female chefs didn't exist. That's the kind of thing that I get mad about. I might correct you if I can think of an easy, effective way of saying it that's politically correct. Often I wont, and I definitely wont for the his or her one's either. I do get a little ticked at the mankind thing, but they mean humans. I know that, so I let it go.

But that's the thing about PC-ness. It's for politicians specifically, so they don't offend certain people when they campaign. It'd really hurt their campaign.

I try to be, because it makes for good debating and just speech in general (I'm quite vocal about my opinions). And, I'm training to become a mentor, so those kinds of skills are really useful.