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Post by June Scarlet on Apr 1, 2021 18:54:46 GMT -5
Art Gallery Schedule:
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Post by June Scarlet on Apr 30, 2021 21:28:29 GMT -5
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Post by June Scarlet on Nov 1, 2021 12:59:19 GMT -5
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Post by Kat on Dec 11, 2021 9:36:16 GMT -5
One of the questions answered in the NT editorial is from Twillie regarding the criteria for choosing poetry gallery winners. Aesop wrote back with a fairly lengthy reply, to which I'm going to reply with what I've seen from the current state of the creative contests in general, as well as the Neopian Times. As one should, of course. These are creative competitions, and while the Neopian Times is not strictly a competition, it, like the other contests, has standards which content creators must meet to be published. And poems can be more...I suppose, liberal than prose. While there are certain rules to follow in the poetry contest, it's understandable to carve out exceptions for, say, shorter poems that don't quite meet the recommended line limit if they are exemplary in their creativity and style. I have noticed myself that having a story in your poem does increase your chances of getting published in the poetry contest, or having a funny twist. My poems that just described Neopian characters without putting some sort of mini-plot or some rhyme or reason as to why I'm describing them usually get rejected. But here's the thing. The quality of entries that have been getting into the competitions and the NT has not been consistent. Some authors with very good poetry find themselves constantly getting rejected despite meeting the standard of writing quality mentioned above, and then some poetry that would not have passed muster under the previous judge manages to get in - poems that would have been considered too short, poems that could have been deeper, poems that are just, well, lazy. Even in the Storytelling Competition, there have been entries that were not only lackluster but also did not fulfill the one thing all Storytelling entries must have, and that is the advancement of the plot. While the Neopian Times has been a bit better in this respect, there have also been entries, especially under the comic section, that were just lazy cut-and-paste memes. Nothing wrong with memes, nothing wrong with copy-pasting, but sometimes the sheer lack of effort is extremely telling, which can be unfair to users who take more time to create their content. We already know this. Our advice to would-be poets is to find an upcoming pet day or holiday in the Neopian calendar and whip up a poem for it. I have gotten a rejection for writing about a very common topic/character so this is good advice. (This was probably how I found my groove in poetry years ago - by constantly shaking lore and characters out of NQII to write poems about.) For those reading my post, I highly suggest going through the collectable card list, the TCGs, and lesser known characters/stories in canon. This is already enshrined in the poetry rules: "If you're looking for something to write about, then visiting the New Features page is a great way to find some inspiration. Poems relating to current events on the site stand a much better chance of winning. If a new world has just been launched, or if there's an ongoing plot, then it might be a good idea to make it the topic of your poem." Also, for submitting Storytelling starters it helps to theme your starter to an ongoing/upcoming event or holiday. Since Reina the Christmas Aisha made her debut last week, I wrote a starter about her (two, actually) and it got in this week. Of course, I preferred the other to get in because IMO it was the better one (it dealt with identity crisis and two Reinas, but I suppose it was the entry higher up on the list...). It's one thing to figure out a topic; it's another thing, however, to write it well. See my previous comment, and my next comment - OKAY. Let's go over some of the poetry rules on the submission page. If you don't believe me, open it for yourself. - We prefer to post poems that are 100% original. However, if you really want to submit a Neopian version of "The 12 Days of Christmas" or Edgar Allan Poe's "The Raven," then by all means send it in. Keep in mind, though, that we receive a dozen or so "parodies" every week, so unless your version is really, REALLY good, then it probably isn't going to be selected. - Ideally, poems should be somewhere in the neighbourhood of 25 to 75 lines long. Now, we realise that great poems come in many shapes and sizes, but it's just awfully hard to pick a three line haiku over a well-written poem that's fifty lines long (especially when there's only five winners for each contest). - As long as a poem is well written, then style or format isn't much of an issue. It doesn't really matter whether a poem rhymes or doesn't rhyme, and in the past a number of haikus, acrostic poems, and sonnets have been chosen as winners. 1. There has been at least one parody poem posted in recent memory, but it only had a few words changed around so the person effectively submitted the original song - and won. 2. More shorter poems have been getting published, and poems that meet all standards including ideal line length are rejected. Again, poetry is more freeform, but you have to also consider how much effort or energy the person expended in creating the poem and ensuring that it's the best they could submit, and making it creative so it stands out from all other poetry despite the length. 3. Some poems have been getting rejected - poems with more unique styles. Which shouldn't be the case. Not all poetry is ABAB or ABCB or AABB. The poetry gallery should celebrate variety but not at the cost of the quality, in short. Not to mention, we haven't had a good track record with people following the rules. I'll talk about grammar, spelling and punctuation later on but I'm sure we all remember Humangate from last year and an explicitly romantic story getting into the NT, as well as several users managing to get multi-published in a single issue even though the NT has, for years, implemented a one entry per user per issue rule. We already know the rules; now we want consistency in enforcing them. Yes, we are aware that Neopets has many users who don't have English as their first language, and who aren't as experienced with writing as others. But this is no excuse to accept, well, typo-riddled entries for the Storytelling Contest. At the very least, they should be proofread before publication. Though in poetry, non-use of capitalization and punctuation can be in line with one's poetry style. Not only that, there are many tools online now that can help with proofreading and checking for typos, and there is always the old-fashioned way of "hey, can you proofread my work?" Proofreading shouldn't take long especially for a poem or a single storytelling entry. *points up at the Rules section* There have been poems that were not even 15 lines (or 5 haikus) long that have been accepted. Either the rules on length should be revisited, or consistency must be observed. If we will allow a short poem to be published then it has to be extremely good that it can stand with poems of a more standard length. First, poetry galleries have been getting bigger instead of the standard 5, even the random galleries. So there should be room enough for poets from all walks of life. Second, I get wanting to give others a chance at publication and a snazzy trophy. I get encouraging newbies to enter and start writing if they want to. But this should not come at the cost of the quality of each gallery. The rules and criteria are there for a reason. This is a competition. Many of us have had to go through several rejections before hitting our stride in the poetry and storytelling contests (and the Neopian Times), and it's not that we want newbies to ~SUFFER~ the way we did. It's that this was how we learned to get better and better each time, because the judge challenged us. It made victory all the sweeter. This isn't gatekeeping; it's just the logical approach if we will be judging creative content. To do otherwise would simply foster an atmosphere of entitlement that if one is fairly new, they can get a nice trophy and a published poem on a silver platter for the sake of inclusivity. I'm old hat when it comes to poetry and I won't throw a fit if my poetry streak is broken or something. All I ask is that if I am rejected, it is because all the poems that are published are genuinely better than mine. I am all about fostering creativity and welcoming new writers and artists into the fold, especially with more people getting into the Neopian Times and creative contests these days. All I ask are two things, overall: consistency, and standards. |
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Post by Stephanie (swordlilly) on Dec 11, 2021 14:38:14 GMT -5
The quality of entries that have been getting into the competitions and the NT has not been consistent. Some authors with very good poetry find themselves constantly getting rejected despite meeting the standard of writing quality mentioned above, and then some poetry that would not have passed muster under the previous judge manages to get in - poems that would have been considered too short, poems that could have been deeper, poems that are just, well, lazy. Even in the Storytelling Competition, there have been entries that were not only lackluster but also did not fulfill the one thing all Storytelling entries must have, and that is the advancement of the plot. While the Neopian Times has been a bit better in this respect, there have also been entries, especially under the comic section, that were just lazy cut-and-paste memes. Nothing wrong with memes, nothing wrong with copy-pasting, but sometimes the sheer lack of effort is extremely telling, which can be unfair to users who take more time to create their content. 1. There has been at least one parody poem posted in recent memory, but it only had a few words changed around so the person effectively submitted the original song - and won. 2. More shorter poems have been getting published, and poems that meet all standards including ideal line length are rejected. Thank you for summing up recent observations so accurately, Kat. I'm almost certain that they just don't have time to go through all the entries. So the selection appears to us (as outside observers) to be, at best, arbitrary, and at worst, careless and biased. Returning to Aesop's answer... I agree with this. In recent years I've become more aware of my own real-world privilege compared to others. While I am highly educated, there are many people for whom college is not even a distant dream, and those people play Neopets, too. Neopets is supposed to be an inclusive, happy place, a place for people to nurture their creativity outside of their otherwise demanding lives. That being said, the current environment does not feel nurturing. When a copy-paste comic that took five minutes to make wins, when a "parody" poem with just a few words changed around wins... and when really good poems lose, poems that maybe the judge just didn't see... it kind of sours the contest for a lot of participants, seasoned and new alike. I remember that when I was new to the contests, I looked up to more experienced writers like Schefflera. I looked at the entries that won, and tried to emulate them, at the same time gradually developing my own style. And then I started winning, too, and it felt very rewarding. What are today's writers supposed to learn from seeing the carelessly written poems win? My main takeaway is that I should just quit the contests cold turkey for a couple of months and then randomly submit a poem out of the blue. That'll up the chances of it getting picked. xD I have better things to do with my time anyway. Janice (_razcalz_) wrote an article for the 900th issue that was rejected because of "too many good entries." Like many others who got repeatedly rejected, she worried about whether there were some standards she wasn't meeting, whether it was writing quality, subject matter or something else. Well, guess what? It wasn't any of those. She kind of quit Neopets for a while, went and played Dappervolk, didn't write any more Neopets fanfiction, and then she resubmitted THE EXACT SAME PIECE, no editing or improvement required whatsoever, and it got in this time. On the front page of the Neopian Times, issue 950. I am all about fostering creativity and welcoming new writers and artists into the fold, especially with more people getting into the Neopian Times and creative contests these days. All I ask are two things, overall: consistency, and standards. Thank you ;~; I agree completely. I think a lot of these problems could be solved if they had a different person, someone like Droplet, go over the entries instead. I feel like Aesop might be tasked with too many other duties and unable (at best) or unwilling (at worst) to give the contests the care they deserve. |
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Post by Duke Pikachu on Dec 11, 2021 18:12:36 GMT -5
I'm old hat when it comes to poetry and I won't throw a fit if my poetry streak is broken or something. All I ask is that if I am rejected, it is because all the poems that are published are genuinely better than mine. I am all about fostering creativity and welcoming new writers and artists into the fold, especially with more people getting into the Neopian Times and creative contests these days. All I ask are two things, overall: consistency, and standards. I would suggest telling all this to Aesop or whoever the NT contact is. |
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Post by Mostly Harmless (flufflepuff) on Dec 11, 2021 22:34:18 GMT -5
I'm pretty relieved that Aesop had an answer for us in the first place, but I can't say I'm too happy with it. I'm almost certain that they just don't have time to go through all the entries. So the selection appears to us (as outside observers) to be, at best, arbitrary, and at worst, careless and biased. Herdy put in that it feels like a dartboard. I'm not inclined to disagree. My solution was to create several poems: two for one day, three for another day, five for another day, until burnout consumes me whole...but that might not even be enough. I also have something to say about this particular comment of Aesop's: I wholeheartedly agree with the second half of this. I'll never forget the day I won my very first poetry competition, having submitted four poems for Ruki Day, nor my Storytelling debut in Story 601, when I mistakenly thought only one ending entry went up on Friday, and the judge thought that was adorable enough to post anyway. If it wasn't for a small conversation several years ago with doctortomoe , I never would have entered the poetry contest in the first place, and now it's my favorite contest. Memories like that deserve to be made. THAT is something that should be encouraged. Something that you try and refine, or try in great quantity, and see what will eventually pass the bar. I'm guessing Aesop hadn't had much feedback on his work at some point in the past and is trying to mitigate that for others. If that's the case, his heart's in the right place. By the way...having won more than 100 poetry contests thus far, and therefore being a little over a tenth of the way to my goal, I disagree with the first bit: winning the competition is absolutely NOT trivial. It's a small step towards my goal personally, it's validation, like he said, and it's a piece of something you have written, etched forever, for all to see, somewhere in Neopian history. Frankly, I find the fact that it's called trivial a little off-putting. In recent years I've become more aware of my own real-world privilege compared to others. While I am highly educated, there are many people for whom college is not even a distant dream, and those people play Neopets, too. I'm not sure about this. All one really needs to improve a skill, in most cases, and especially in writing or even submitting to the contests, is a library. A pen and paper. And onward we go: I get that. Especially with special stories like -00 ones. It takes balance to maintain it all. But I do have a problem with this to some degree: what about those new writers who were encouraged? If they become seasoned, does that mean their work automatically has a lower chance of getting in, despite their output of equal, or, with time, higher quality? That'll just reverse the nurturing effect and cast doubt on that person's abilities. So he's saying, even if you're a seasoned writer, and put out two poems for every pet day to try and figure out what's wrong/what is needed/what you need to improve/an attempt to experiment, it's not enough. I sent in two for Usul Day, 2-3 for Bruce Day, and 6 for Wocky Day. The fact that all of them, thus far, have been rejected/not put up, it really feels like a slap in the face. TMGE reasons feel kinda flimsy when the definition of GE is up in the air at the moment. EDIT: To clarify, the poems I'm sending in are not copies of each other, or poems that didn't get in way back when. I'm talking a series of limericks about a nutty knight who thinks it's Snowbunnies plaguing Meridell, a Faerie Wocky who swims sunset-studded skies and how the colors just work so well with each other, an Eventide Bruce whose spotlight is the lower half of his body, coming out to skate just after sunset, a pantoum about the Snowager, representing how he goes around in circles in one place for eternity, a Hannah poem that focuses on dashed dreams and questioning if one is past their prime to be able to chase such dreams, an anagrammatic poem using "Eliv Thade" that somehow tells of his story and his descent into madness using only the letters therein, a Day of Giving poem that's basically begging TJ Wagner to come back (I haven't sent this one yet), a poem in memory of Kristy (tbf I haven't shown many, a Magma Pool series of haiku in which each haiku captures a moment in time and yet it can all be strung together, a Pteri Day poem that tells the tale of a haughty knight to the spirit and rhythm of Casey at the Bat...and more. I'm doing this out of order, but it's almost stream-of-consciousness at this point: Personally, grammar and spelling errors really irk me, unless it's something like that beautiful poem that starts Eye Halve a Spelling Chequer. Unless it's used to an advantadge like that, it feels like it cheapens the poem and distracts the reader. I'm also a student of another language, and mistakes are how we learn. If grammar is an issue, just tell the poem's author in the Neomail where they get the notes from the judge. That's what the Spanish poetry contest did with me, then I refined the poems, showed them to my mother and asked her for help, and got in twice! I misspelled advantage on purpose. One thing I do like is that Aesop now sends the title of the rejected poem in the Neomail, so you're not left guessing which poem it was. That's an excellent change. Going back to grammar, it's hard to accept that there are looser standards on grammar based on the poetry rules: I think I need not say more about that. I am all about fostering creativity and welcoming new writers and artists into the fold, especially with more people getting into the Neopian Times and creative contests these days. All I ask are two things, overall: consistency, and standards. ABSOLUTELY. THIS THIS THIS THIS ABSOFLUFFINGLUTELY THIS. GOD IF I COULD GIVE YOU STARS FOR THIS I WOULD. I think a lot of these problems could be solved if they had a different person, someone like Droplet, go over the entries instead. I feel like Aesop might be tasked with too many other duties and unable (at best) or unwilling (at worst) to give the contests the care they deserve. It's easy for me to spew all this salt and reasons why the contests these days are rather upsetting, but when taken into perspective, Aesop is one guy. Managing the Neopian Times. And the Storytelling Contest. And the Poetry Contest. And maybe the Caption Contest. And that's something I'd like to see change. He chose the name Aesop, and it's clear he's passionate about stories. But if the duties were split, we might see an increase in the two things we crave most, standards and consistency. Content Intern who just got hired: it's your time to shine. I would suggest telling all this to Aesop or whoever the NT contact is. I dunno. As upset as I am, I get that he's one person. I don't wanna hurt the guy. Y'all might not wanna have any ramen noodles after reading this, I know das a lotta sodium you just took in X: |
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Post by doctortomoe on Dec 11, 2021 23:32:49 GMT -5
I'm just reminded how I hit creative block on STC and Poetry over a year ago.
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Post by Kat on Dec 11, 2021 23:34:55 GMT -5
I'm almost certain that they just don't have time to go through all the entries. So the selection appears to us (as outside observers) to be, at best, arbitrary, and at worst, careless and biased. Herdy put in that it feels like a dartboard. I'm not inclined to disagree. My solution was to create several poems: two for one day, three for another day, five for another day, until burnout consumes me whole...but that might not even be enough. Making several poems unfortunately will not be enough if the selection process is going to be "pick whatever's on top and go through the pile until you have enough and not bother to check the rest" or yes, a dartboard. The Neopian Times series selection is likely suffering from this as well considering the new hard cap that only allows 3 series to run at any given time, barring special issue or collab issue series submitted precisely for those issues. While Aesop's workload admittedly cuts through the time he could use to read through more submitted series, this presents a new problem - several series writers will effectively be grappling for a single slot that will open once a series finishes its run. Rinse and repeat. I find that I've gotten poetry rejections for some species that have a lot of poetry topics to choose from. That being said, the current environment does not feel nurturing. When a copy-paste comic that took five minutes to make wins, when a "parody" poem with just a few words changed around wins... and when really good poems lose, poems that maybe the judge just didn't see... it kind of sours the contest for a lot of participants, seasoned and new alike. I remember that when I was new to the contests, I looked up to more experienced writers like Schefflera. I looked at the entries that won, and tried to emulate them, at the same time gradually developing my own style. And then I started winning, too, and it felt very rewarding. What are today's writers supposed to learn from seeing the carelessly written poems win? When I was new, I also looked up to people who were consistently getting into poetry and storytelling. Li'l ol' Kat only had one poetry trophy to her name and zero storytelling trophies, and the work I put through trying to get into storytelling is, well, I had attempts dating all the way back to when I either had one or no NT publications at all. I won my first storytelling when I was already at well over 100 NT trophies, which shows how difficult I found the competition. But it felt so good to win, rewarding each time, because eventually I realized that it was no fluke. By the way...having won more than 100 poetry contests thus far, and therefore being a little over a tenth of the way to my goal, I disagree with the first bit: winning the competition is absolutely NOT trivial. It's a small step towards my goal personally, it's validation, like he said, and it's a piece of something you have written, etched forever, for all to see, somewhere in Neopian history. Frankly, I find the fact that it's called trivial a little off-putting. Now that you mention it, it's not trivial. It may seem trivial when other people look at us with 100+ poetry wins, but each and every one was special and entailed a lot of work and heart - even those I wrote late at night because I forgot that holy bananas there's a special day and mom I want a prize to sell for my faraway goal of completing another stamp album. Plus, it's not like we never experienced rejection. We still do. (And sometimes it's a source of frustration because of everything we've discussed so far.) So he's saying, even if you're a seasoned writer, and put out two poems for every pet day to try and figure out what's wrong/what is needed/what you need to improve/an attempt to experiment, it's not enough. I sent in two for Usul Day, 2-3 for Bruce Day, and 6 for Wocky Day. The fact that all of them, thus far, have been rejected/not put up, it really feels like a slap in the face. TMGE reasons feel kinda flimsy when the definition of GE is up in the air at the moment. It IS a slap in the face especially when you thumb through the published poems and see that yours easily meets the same standards or is more well thought out than the others. This isn't meant to drag other poets into the mud but this goes back to what I said - I will accept a rejection if all the poems that were put up in the gallery are truly better and more creative than mine. Which was how it was years back with the old judge. I would look at everyone's poems who got in and be like "yeah, those are all better, mine was a bit off." We really need to know why we get rejections because TMGE just got flimsier when poetry galleries have gotten bigger. Is it the grammar? Is it the flow? Was the rhyming meter I wanted to do actually off? Is this the reason why I fell short? Personally, grammar and spelling errors really irk me, unless it's something like that beautiful poem that starts Eye Halve a Spelling Chequer. Unless it's used to an advantadge like that, it feels like it cheapens the poem and distracts the reader. I'm also a student of another language, and mistakes are how we learn. If grammar is an issue, just tell the poem's author in the Neomail where they get the notes from the judge. That's what the Spanish poetry contest did with me, then I refined the poems, showed them to my mother and asked her for help, and got in twice! I misspelled advantage on purpose. One thing I do like is that Aesop now sends the title of the rejected poem in the Neomail, so you're not left guessing which poem it was. That's an excellent change. Yeah, I like knowing which of my poems was rejected so I can rework them, and some of my reworked rejected poems got in later on. I'm also irked about grammar and spelling errors because checking them shows that you are meticulous and care about the quality of your work. They tend to throw me off when I'm reading and it is especially frustrating when I check to ensure that I don't have typos as far as I can see, only to lose Storytelling to an entry that's riddled with typos. This isn't work or school but I exert effort to make sure my fanfiction and fanpoetry are at least grammatically correct. It has nothing to do with the fact that English was my first language, contrary to what I believed years ago (I'm Filipino but my parents primarily used English at home with me and my love for reading and writing began with Disney and Berenstain Bears stories read to me at night). I would suggest telling all this to Aesop or whoever the NT contact is. and Mostly Harmless (flufflepuff) have answered this for me, pretty much. But I'll add my two (three? four?) cents. I think a lot of these problems could be solved if they had a different person, someone like Droplet, go over the entries instead. I feel like Aesop might be tasked with too many other duties and unable (at best) or unwilling (at worst) to give the contests the care they deserve. It's easy for me to spew all this salt and reasons why the contests these days are rather upsetting, but when taken into perspective, Aesop is one guy. Managing the Neopian Times. And the Storytelling Contest. And the Poetry Contest. And maybe the Caption Contest. And that's something I'd like to see change. He chose the name Aesop, and it's clear he's passionate about stories. But if the duties were split, we might see an increase in the two things we crave most, standards and consistency. Content Intern who just got hired: it's your time to shine. I also don't know how to phrase all of this nicely knowing that Aesop IS carrying more work than the average Neopian Times editor and that things have been done to try and ease his load, like making the NT biweekly and extending Storytelling. And if I take this to the editorial I don't want to come off as elitist, or gatekeeping. I'm just one user who just enjoys the creative parts of Neopets - a zombie or an ancient relic of a user who came back from the dead, but still. I also see the effort Aesop exerts like with issue 950, agreeing to make Storytelling contests last two weeks, agreeing to do special collab issues, and I don't want come off as nagging or discouraging. It's just...I care about the quality of the creative competitions after being under Droplet and the previous storytelling/poetry judge, but I know Aesop right now is handling a lot and is only one person. Even if he himself wants to make changes for the consistency and standards we want, we don't know if they will be accepted with the current TNT and JS. But I know we can do better than what we have now. Hopefully the Content Intern can help, but if we get another Petra situation where they show up within the community and suddenly their presence is not felt anymore, I...well, I dunno if I can retire again since I've been inspired again after how many years of being gone. Feels nice to get all this off my chest, though. |
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Post by Duke Pikachu on Dec 12, 2021 1:12:42 GMT -5
I was told that Herdy used some JN connections to contact some members of TNT to look through this post. Hello TNT & Aesop! Keep up the good work! I would suggest telling all this to Aesop or whoever the NT contact is. I dunno. As upset as I am, I get that he's one person. I don't wanna hurt the guy. While there's certainly some things here which is personal opinion and just how Aesop judges, there are still some things noted that he may not know and should be made aware of: 1. "Parody" poems usually should be rejected unless does enough to distinguish itself from the original source, and even then should be put on the bottom of the pile for consideration if there weren't enough good quality original poems. A poem that was just a song with a few words switched out to make it sound more Neopian should not be winning over someone who made an original poem.
2. While I get Aesop may be more drawn to the shorter poems since they're faster to get through, the poetry contest rules should still be adhered to. A poem which doesn't reach near the marker of 25 lines should be rejected unless it's just REALLY that good. At least it should be put on the "maybe" pile while longer poems are considered, and only if there's not enough longer poems that are better should it be accepted. 3. Poems without a typical rhyme scheme shouldn't automatically get rejected. As long as they meet the "not a parody" and "at least 25 lines" goals, even if Aesop isn't so sure of them, they should still be held as a "maybe" moreover. 4. Entries which are haikus and there's less then five also should be auto rejected. Already a special exception has been made for them not needing 25 lines, but that does mean the limit of there being 5 haikus has to be met. If you can't think of 5 good haikus than should you really be winning over someone who entered a good poem that's 25+ lines? These are things Aesop should definitely keep in mind as these are not matter of opinion but the rules the contest had always followed. It's not being mean to him, we know the poor guy has a lot on his plate, but its unfair to everyone else rules are being sidestepped and its affecting the quality and making people feel their work isn't being appreciated. Maybe this all just means some changes should be made to the poetry contest, possibly others too. Since I don't participate in anything other than the Neopian Times I don't have that much to suggest, but from what I read & know here's are some thoughts: 1. Getting New Players Involved By Having A Beginner Category. Maybe Also An Elite Category: If the reason experienced poets are being rejected is to give new players a chance to earn trophies and this is now happening more often, maybe it's time to give beginner poets their own category. So there would be the normal winners followed by a collection of players with say 3 or less trophies. Then after winning your third you're considered experienced enough thus are competing with the more experienced poets. And maybe, if it's not too much work, maybe have an "elite" category for really experienced poets who have like 30+ trophies. Obviously these numbers are going to have to be worked with as I don't know what's considered a good amount of trophies to be considered a "beginner", "average" and "elite", but I feel the idea at least has merit. 2. If Too Much For Aesop, Maybe Get Player Voting Involved?: THIS IS JUST AN IDEA! If we combined it with my above idea maybe it can open options like the Beginner category is specifically judged by Aesop, the "average" is opened to all players, and then "elite" could maybe be decided upon by the elite members themselves (and maybe elite players can help Aesop with some of the Beginner entries and given extra votes to use for the "average" category)? Since voting takes time it also would give players some time to report a poem they don't feel should be included like it's a weak parody of an existing song or it's too short; while they can't be replaced at the very least they won't undeservingly win. 3. If This Is Too Much For Aesop, Let's Get Some Guest Judges: As long as they know the rules of what makes a qualified entry, I don't think it would be too hard for another Staffer or two to come in and help Aesop sort through the entries. It would not only help him get through the work but also provide different viewpoints and tastes. Aesop will likely have the final say on things, but having the final say on 50-100 screened entries is easier than having to go through thousands of unscreened entries. 4. Just A General Thing For All Competitions: Update The Prize Pools If They Haven't Already: I remember hearing a while ago that for Poetry, Storytelling, Beauty, and Art Gallery that the prize you get can items between the likes of a Codestone to Paint Brushes, which is quite a gap and it's random so kind of unfair. Prize Pool should be made to give out items which are about the same worth as one another. Or maybe change the prize every week and have everyone who wins that week get the same prize, the prize likely being thematic. It's obviously something that would need some discussion between TNT. |
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Post by Kat on Dec 12, 2021 2:26:17 GMT -5
I was told that Herdy used some JN connections to contact some members of TNT to look through this post. Hello TNT & Aesop! Keep up the good work! I dunno. As upset as I am, I get that he's one person. I don't wanna hurt the guy. While there's certainly some things here which is personal opinion and just how Aesop judges, there are still some things noted that he may not know and should be made aware of: 1. "Parody" poems usually should be rejected unless does enough to distinguish itself from the original source, and even then should be put on the bottom of the pile for consideration if there weren't enough good quality original poems. A poem that was just a song with a few words switched out to make it sound more Neopian should not be winning over someone who made an original poem.
2. While I get Aesop may be more drawn to the shorter poems since they're faster to get through, the poetry contest rules should still be adhered to. A poem which doesn't reach near the marker of 25 lines should be rejected unless it's just REALLY that good. At least it should be put on the "maybe" pile while longer poems are considered, and only if there's not enough longer poems that are better should it be accepted. 3. Poems without a typical rhyme scheme shouldn't automatically get rejected. As long as they meet the "not a parody" and "at least 25 lines" goals, even if Aesop isn't so sure of them, they should still be held as a "maybe" moreover. 4. Entries which are haikus and there's less then five also should be auto rejected. Already a special exception has been made for them not needing 25 lines, but that does mean the limit of there being 5 haikus has to be met. If you can't think of 5 good haikus than should you really be winning over someone who entered a good poem that's 25+ lines? These are things Aesop should definitely keep in mind as these are not matter of opinion but the rules the contest had always followed. It's not being mean to him, we know the poor guy has a lot on his plate, but its unfair to everyone else rules are being sidestepped and its affecting the quality and making people feel their work isn't being appreciated. Maybe this all just means some changes should be made to the poetry contest, possibly others too. Since I don't participate in anything other than the Neopian Times I don't have that much to suggest, but from what I read & know here's are some thoughts: 1. Getting New Players Involved By Having A Beginner Category. Maybe Also An Elite Category: If the reason experienced poets are being rejected is to give new players a chance to earn trophies and this is now happening more often, maybe it's time to give beginner poets their own category. So there would be the normal winners followed by a collection of players with say 3 or less trophies. Then after winning your third you're considered experienced enough thus are competing with the more experienced poets. And maybe, if it's not too much work, maybe have an "elite" category for really experienced poets who have like 30+ trophies. Obviously these numbers are going to have to be worked with as I don't know what's considered a good amount of trophies to be considered a "beginner", "average" and "elite", but I feel the idea at least has merit. 2. If Too Much For Aesop, Maybe Get Player Voting Involved?: THIS IS JUST AN IDEA! If we combined it with my above idea maybe it can open options like the Beginner category is specifically judged by Aesop, the "average" is opened to all players, and then "elite" could maybe be decided upon by the elite members themselves (and maybe elite players can help Aesop with some of the Beginner entries and given extra votes to use for the "average" category)? Since voting takes time it also would give players some time to report a poem they don't feel should be included like it's a weak parody of an existing song or it's too short; while they can't be replaced at the very least they won't undeservingly win. 3. If This Is Too Much For Aesop, Let's Get Some Guest Judges: As long as they know the rules of what makes a qualified entry, I don't think it would be too hard for another Staffer or two to come in and help Aesop sort through the entries. It would not only help him get through the work but also provide different viewpoints and tastes. Aesop will likely have the final say on things, but having the final say on 50-100 screened entries is easier than having to go through thousands of unscreened entries. 4. Just A General Thing For All Competitions: Update The Prize Pools If They Haven't Already: I remember hearing a while ago that for Poetry, Storytelling, Beauty, and Art Gallery that the prize you get can items between the likes of a Codestone to Paint Brushes, which is quite a gap and it's random so kind of unfair. Prize Pool should be made to give out items which are about the same worth as one another. Or maybe change the prize every week and have everyone who wins that week get the same prize, the prize likely being thematic. It's obviously something that would need some discussion between TNT. I agree with the pointers you've posted. I don't mind if a poem that's 20-24 lines is published since that's fairly near 25, but a poem that's below 15 lines would have to be placed in a "maybe" pile for consideration especially if there are several longer poems that are better. And trust me, while I believe thinking up haikus isn't always easy, I expend more energy writing a 40-line poem than any batch of haikus. The Art Gallery has galleries wherein less experienced artists can enter - and in fact, Artists' Day Off was how I got my single AG trophy - so I don't see why we can't have the same for the poetry gallery wherein only those with 0-3 poetry trophies can enter. It can be random galleries so they have a wide range of themes to choose from. But personally I don't think we'll need an elite/advanced/experienced category considering there are many experienced poets who periodically enter for Neopian holidays and yeet random poems for random poetry days. I'm a bit iffy on getting player voting into the picture because player voting tends to turn creative comps into popularity contests. The Caption Competition is the worst offender especially with its nutty voting scheme. A polished poem could lose if the writer does not have a large friend base. But I don't see any reason why other staffers can't take a little time to help Aesop sift through the poetry pile, even if it's just to help him sort through poems that deserve his final look and those that should be rejected for not quite meeting the standards in the poetry submission form. Considering that people are going crazy with the item inflation especially with ye olde event prizes and R99s, I really think the creative competition prize pool deserves an overhaul. Rare item code prizes should be thrown into it since they had no trouble awarding RIC prizes for Neocreation last year. Then maybe the cheaper items, like codestones, Sporkle Syrup, and some petpets should be shuffled out. (Bag of Peanuts is also in the prize pool, strangely enough, but since it's an avatar item it's pricier than a codestone.) Maybe old event prizes should also be included and even some stamps to counter the inflation. A lot of people are complaining that they can't save fast enough to keep up with the inflation of their dream items. |
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Post by Duke Pikachu on Dec 12, 2021 4:01:18 GMT -5
Considering that people are going crazy with the item inflation especially with ye olde event prizes and R99s, I really think the creative competition prize pool deserves an overhaul. Rare item code prizes should be thrown into it since they had no trouble awarding RIC prizes for Neocreation last year. Then maybe the cheaper items, like codestones, Sporkle Syrup, and some petpets should be shuffled out. (Bag of Peanuts is also in the prize pool, strangely enough, but since it's an avatar item it's pricier than a codestone.) Maybe old event prizes should also be included and even some stamps to counter the inflation. A lot of people are complaining that they can't save fast enough to keep up with the inflation of their dream items. I'm in complete agreement with this! We have so many old prize items from plots, events, & special promotions (such as from the TCG and other merch) that have only inflated since they were retired, I think it's about time to use them for other things or just make them available. I point to an old article I wrote about ways to reintroduce the more useful of these items and placing them all around the various parts of the site: Old Prizes That Need To Be Rereleased |
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Post by Mostly Harmless (flufflepuff) on Dec 15, 2021 8:32:30 GMT -5
Do you reckon they might have seen yet? Maybe I was too hard on everyone in my response...
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Post by Twillie on Mar 28, 2022 14:11:26 GMT -5
Mac posted the April schedule for writing creative contests! Poetry:
Storytelling:
They're also asking Aesop about a possible Grey Day for the NT and will likely update on that soon. For now, look forward to April Fools' Day this coming Friday, April 1st!
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Post by Twillie on May 2, 2022 19:48:52 GMT -5
May Writing Schedule! Mac is also open to theme day suggestions for poetry and will announce any additional themes a week ahead of time, and I or anyone else can try to post about it here too. They may also make a random poetry gallery on slow days, which I imagine would be composed mainly of held over poetry. |
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