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Post by Thorn on Jan 22, 2015 23:26:40 GMT -5
I knew both those guys. =0 ...poor Diego and Scrac.
We obviously need to get rid of the people responsible, but at this stage I'm not sure who to vote for. I find the Ginz train of thought a little difficult to follow (why would she be the arsonist? 0.o); though I'd be interested in considering it if somebody could explain it nicely to me!
((blame my lack of understanding on the fact that I've been studying for a test, haven't been paying enough attention to this game, arggghhh)).
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Post by Lizica on Jan 22, 2015 23:47:13 GMT -5
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Post by Ginz ❤ on Jan 23, 2015 1:25:49 GMT -5
Hey guys, I see some of you are very suspicious of me, and I honestly don’t blame you XD;; I definitely owe you quite an overdue explanation. I hope it’ll help clear things up.
First of all, I still feel guilty about what happened to Cassie. I was really shocked and upset when she died and was revealed to be the cop. D: I felt awful! That’s what I get for trusting someone I shouldn’t have, though. I’ll explain.
After I got doused, I got a message from Pixie saying she had a lead on the arsonist. In hindsight, I was too quick to trust her, but I was pretty scared of getting ignited. Pixie told me Cassie had visited Christos the first night. Honestly, to this day I don’t know if that’s true or not. Your guess is as good as mine. Initially, I wanted to be careful and only planned to share that information with other doused people (so only Christos at that point), but then people started voting for me, and by the time I got home from work, I already had the 7 votes needed to be lynched. I didn’t even know why.
I didn’t know what to do. All I had was that lead, and I was desperate enough to use it. I thought acting like I knew about it firsthand would make it more believable, so I did. And then, the next day, well… you know how that ends. I couldn’t believe I had gotten tricked into getting our cop killed, and digging myself in such a hole in the process. I’ve been busy with work, but I’d be lying if I said I haven’t been avoiding posting because I’m ashamed to show my face around here now after that.
But you guys deserved an explanation, so there it is.
I really hope we find those who are responsible for all these deaths! The mafia goes without saying, but I think both the arsonist and sorcerer seem quite scary too. D:
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Post by Kozma on Jan 23, 2015 2:26:17 GMT -5
Hey guys, I see some of you are very suspicious of me, and I honestly don’t blame you XD;; I definitely owe you quite an overdue explanation. I hope it’ll help clear things up. First of all, I still feel guilty about what happened to Cassie. I was really shocked and upset when she died and was revealed to be the cop. D: I felt awful! That’s what I get for trusting someone I shouldn’t have, though. I’ll explain. After I got doused, I got a message from Pixie saying she had a lead on the arsonist. In hindsight, I was too quick to trust her, but I was pretty scared of getting ignited. Pixie told me Cassie had visited Christos the first night. Honestly, to this day I don’t know if that’s true or not. Your guess is as good as mine. Initially, I wanted to be careful and only planned to share that information with other doused people (so only Christos at that point), but then people started voting for me, and by the time I got home from work, I already had the 7 votes needed to be lynched. I didn’t even know why. I didn’t know what to do. All I had was that lead, and I was desperate enough to use it. I thought acting like I knew about it firsthand would make it more believable, so I did. And then, the next day, well… you know how that ends. I couldn’t believe I had gotten tricked into getting our cop killed, and digging myself in such a hole in the process. I’ve been busy with work, but I’d be lying if I said I haven’t been avoiding posting because I’m ashamed to show my face around here now after that. But you guys deserved an explanation, so there it is. I really hope we find those who are responsible for all these deaths! The mafia goes without saying, but I think both the arsonist and sorcerer seem quite scary too. D: Thanks for the explanation, Ginz. I'm sorry if we've been too quick to judge you based on what happened earlier in the game. I'm just really scared of what the sorcerer might do because Coaster did say they could bewitch the vigilante into killing an innocent. If you're not the sorcerer then lynching you will not help the town win the game. I am not sure what to do anymore. I feel that this is a key point in the game; if something significant doesn't happen now, the town will likely lose. I guess there's only one thing I can do: *whines*
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Post by Draco on Jan 23, 2015 2:46:05 GMT -5
Here's a idea... Is there anyone who is REALLY pointing the finger at someone, and not letting down about it? Because they could possibly be the Retributionist.
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Post by Coaster on Jan 23, 2015 5:31:40 GMT -5
I do think it's a little too convenient that the message came from the only known Mafioso (who is already dead) rather than someone we could take out tonight, and there still aren't any counter-claims going around that we can do something with... but any explanation is still better than none. Sorry, Ginz, that I didn't account for the role of emotions in strategy. (Especially after Medieval where I was really immature towards my faction for the same reasons.) But anyways, if it's true, it does suggest the Mafia are in league with the Arsonist and/or Sorcerer in order to have gotten such information (because of their actions on Cassie and purportedly on Christos), which means it's even more urgent that we find them, whoever they are. Still, if contentions are too high tonight, we could potentially keep townspeople alive if the Warden is able to jail either the Vigilante or the Sorcerer (or if there happens to be an extra Healer or Bodyguard from Random that hasn't shown themselves yet); it'll mean the Mafia gets another free kill on someone else and the Arsonist gets a guaranteed douse or can set off the bomb, but the Spy or Detective could come up with a solid lead depending on what goes down. Not trying to pin on Ginz in particular, but (if my count is right) with the evils-townies ratio at 5:9 at the moment, with three evils being Mafia and at least those three being in communication, and that both the Sorcerer and Arsonist could cause mass casualties on top of the Mafia kill this coming night, any solid lead is looking pretty appealing, especially if the whole point of a prior execution was process of elimination. <_< So if the Mafia kills someone, and the Sorcerer kills the Vigilante by using them to kill yet another person, and the Arsonist decides to asplode people tonight, well, the game is pretty much set unless the "neutral neutrals" are supportive. In reply to Draco, not only can the Retributionist not do anything during the night (other than be immune) whether we kill them or not, and they can win whether their target dies or not (Fool mechanics at worst, both Ret and target surviving at best), but I've heard info about the Retributionist through earlier communication with pre-mortem Scrac (who'd apparently been doing a lot of networking), and the claim is that their target was actually another person who I'd really rather not post in public for obvious reasons if it's true. Personally, I'd rather keep them alive so we can still kill some Mafia by the time they outnumber us. xD At best, it's bad strategy to suggest killing the Retributionist right now, and at worst, it's suspicious behavior. Said network via Scrac also was the one that suggested voting for Ginz on the day that Cassie died, though, so I don't really know. If the Clairvoyant, or better yet the Revivalist, wants to communicate with/revive Scrac tonight, I think that could settle a lot of issues. (I'm not sure if sharing Skype chat screenshots would be legal rules-wise, though, or if it violates the "rule 4" of uncertainty-- Avery?) And in any case, I can truthfully assure everyone here (and those who I've talked to in said network can probably attest) that using this round to kill me would be utterly pointless to the Town. I don't have a lot to lose, but I'd rather help out as long as I can. Short version: It's urgent we find some evils quick, but if we don't have a good lead this round, the Warden/possible second Healer or Bodyguard and the Clairvoyant/Revivalist could buy us some time. If that doesn't go through, the evils get a bunch more kills uninhibited and they basically win unless neutral neutrals come to the rescue. Killing me would be pointless, but it might actually be kinda nice to have the release of death and stop worrying about some of these mind games. xD
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Post by Jayeee on Jan 23, 2015 6:05:03 GMT -5
Oh man, this is SO confusing!! XDD;
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Post by Christos on Jan 23, 2015 7:28:51 GMT -5
And I already have 2 votes against me? XD
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Post by Layla "Nimbus" Karimi on Jan 23, 2015 8:03:11 GMT -5
*skids in with papers flying everywhere* WOAH, woah, woah, let's back this up a bit.
First off, why the heck are people starting to vote for Christos? I've been chatting with him extensively for days now, and I can say with utmost certainty that he's trustworthy. He's basically my link to that network Coaster was talking about, and has given me time-proven information that would have hurt him if he'd let me know as one of the more wicked parties. I honestly don't know what made people suspicious of him in the first place, but it would be a really bad idea for it to continue.
Now, as for Ginz... *shuffles through her papers* I'm still trying to sort through this information, but based on what I've gathered so far, it might not be possible for her to have been the Sorcerer or Arsonist. It was actually starting to look like she was a Retributionist-turned-Fool, but with her rather thorough defense just recently, I'm beginning to doubt that as well *frowns* This really doesn't add up though... I'll have to get back to everyone in a bit with more information, sorry!
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Post by Avery on Jan 23, 2015 12:59:35 GMT -5
Sharing Skype screencaps would be a "no".
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Post by Thundy on Jan 23, 2015 13:46:41 GMT -5
Double the deaths means double the confusion, forgive me staying out of this mob rule justice, I just don't have the facts.
In the meantime the NTWF Aviation Authority has grounded me permanently until the crisis is over (so to all those that bought one way tickets away from this mess, sorry but, heh heh, no refunds) so barkeep, wherever he's gone, another for me!
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Post by Coaster on Jan 23, 2015 14:41:17 GMT -5
*skids in with papers flying everywhere* WOAH, woah, woah, let's back this up a bit. First off, why the heck are people starting to vote for Christos? I've been chatting with him extensively for days now, and I can say with utmost certainty that he's trustworthy. He's basically my link to that network Coaster was talking about, and has given me time-proven information that would have hurt him if he'd let me know as one of the more wicked parties. I honestly don't know what made people suspicious of him in the first place, but it would be a really bad idea for it to continue. Now, as for Ginz... *shuffles through her papers* I'm still trying to sort through this information, but based on what I've gathered so far, it might not be possible for her to have been the Sorcerer or Arsonist. It was actually starting to look like she was a Retributionist-turned-Fool, but with her rather thorough defense just recently, I'm beginning to doubt that as well *frowns* This really doesn't add up though... I'll have to get back to everyone in a bit with more information, sorry! Yeah, every evidence I've seen suggests Christos isn't dangerous, so I'm not sure why the voting is happening there either. Unless it's a Mafia attempt at distraction or something. 0_o; Ranumgen does not require an execution today, so insufficient numbers just means nothing happens, right? Sporty, mind sharing your reasoning for Ginz? And again, preferably before the vote ends in 3 hours, do we have a solid lead on anyone? xD
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Post by Draco on Jan 23, 2015 16:00:51 GMT -5
Personally I'm leaning on Coaster being Retributionist now. Seems a little too obsessed with the whole kill Ginz thing. With very little evidence for either guilty or innocent, it's just shoved down our throats now to kill her. So either Coaster is being WAY to cautious or is the Retributionist.
I also propose that one of the Doused victims are lying. By now, the Arsonist should be feeling a bit worried that they'll die at any moment with the amount of people narrowing down. At this point, I know I would have all ready lit all the victims to get the most amount of kills and then continue my fiery rampage. However, if the Arsonist has claimed to be doused, they can't actually do it without outing they are in fact the Arsonist, so that leaves them only with the chance of doing it when they know they're about to be killed somehow.
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Post by Layla "Nimbus" Karimi on Jan 23, 2015 16:47:28 GMT -5
Sporty, mind sharing your reasoning for Ginz? And again, preferably before the vote ends in 3 hours, do we have a solid lead on anyone? xD Yeah, now would probably be a good time to explain what I know. Part of it is still kind of iffy, but maybe having the evidence out there will help ^^; Back when Cassie was first executed, I thought of something that seemed to have been missed by most of us: When Ginz first accused Cassie, she phrased it as having been "tipped off." I asked her about this, and she replied that she had been misled by Pixie (as she has recently stated here). I didn't say anything at the time, because I wasn't sure whether I could believe her just yet -- it seemed awfully convenient that someone we were already suspicious of had encouraged Ginz to make the accusation, but at the same time there was no real evidence suggesting that this wasn't the case. Then when Pixie was executed and revealed to be Mafia, I concluded that if nothing else Ginz couldn't be Mafia herself because then she would have just framed her own teammate. More recently, I learned through the network that Ginz had apparently been jailed for the past two nights and was insisting to the warden that Scrac, whom we now know is innocent, was guilty and should be executed. This is the point where everything stopped making sense, because: 1. If Ginz was jailed the past two nights, she couldn't have used her night action on either. Twillie claimed to have been doused on night 3, and would have no reason to lie about that unless she was herself the Arsonist, and I've been able to confirm that the Sorcerer was involved in night 4's shenanigans. Therefore, she could not be either role. 2. If Ginz had a concrete reason for accidentally suspecting Scrac, she would have had no reason not to explain it to the Warden. Likewise, if she was a true neutral role and only needed to stay alive, she would not have confounded things and piled on suspicion by randomly accusing someone. Therefore, she could neither be innocent nor a true neutral. 3. If Ginz was the Retributionist, which at first seemed likely since she was trying at the time to get a particular innocent executed, then she would have become the Fool upon Scrac's death last night and wanted to get executed. Her thorough and logical-sounding defence earlier today means that she couldn't be the Fool. 4. Thanks to previously-drawn conclusions and the reveal made at PFA's death, Ginz could be neither a mafia member nor the Werewolf. Combine all these conclusions, and you find that Ginz is... none of the possible roles. This paradoxical conclusion is the point I was at when I posted earlier today. There were still possible answers, of course -- for example, the "Warden" could be lying, or Ginz could have made a foolish choice somewhere down the line -- but these possibilities didn't really help make anything clearer. However, even more recently, I learned some further details regarding the Warden situation that managed to simultaneously help eveything make more sense and make the situation even more confusing. Christos relayed the details he had learned regarding the situation, and while they seem to indicate that Ginz was indeed jailed on both nights 3 and 4, they only confirm that this was the case for night 3. So, if Ginz was free on night 4, and if every statement from this apparent Warden is true and every other conclusion correct, then it would seem that Ginz is the Sorcerer after all. I'm not sure whether to believe this is indeed the case, what with there still being an number of "ifs," but this is all I've been able to gather about the situation.
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Post by Avery on Jan 23, 2015 17:21:28 GMT -5
Sho much logicking... I needsh a drink...
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