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Post by Avery on Jan 22, 2015 13:12:19 GMT -5
...well that was... Something. And Diego didn't even take out his attacker?? He didn't deserve this... Poor Diego and Scrac. We'll avenge you, I swear. Whoever did this - however they did it - will not get away with it. Right? Now just to figure out what happened though. I have some theories but they don't make a ton of sense. XD; if only there was some way of talking to the victims, maybe they could offer some explanations... Hah, talking to the dead? What nonsensh! Inchidentally, I may have had so much to drink last night I'm still drunk... gosh I hope the Herlad doeshn't call till I've shobered up...
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Post by Twillie on Jan 22, 2015 17:21:48 GMT -5
Well, I have no clue what happened tonight (not to mention what with everyone being so hush-hush about specifics like it's a plot puzzle or something), but unless anyone's got a better idea, I still think it'd be advantageous to execute Ginz since we're pretty sure she's the Sorcerer and was probably involved in this tragic death of two townies somehow. (Or it could be random bad luck. But we still need to burn the witch. D:<) So, if she weighs the same as a duck... she's made of wood... and therefore A WITCH!Recap of said train of logic: 1. The Arsonist visits Christos on the first night. 2. Ginz claims that Cassie visited Christos that night, suggesting (by omission of another name that the Spy would have access to) that Cassie was the only visitor that night. 3. Making such a claim pins Ginz as the Spy or the Sorcerer, or that she was informed by the actual Spy or Sorcerer. 4. Cassie confesses that she was controlled by the Sorcerer and was not given info on who she visited that night, other than that they were an innocent. After we executed her, it turns out she was the Detective. 5. That means Ginz is not the Spy, or else she would have known both visitors (Cassie and the mystery Arsonist), and in the best interest of the Town, would have shared both potential Arsonist suspects from the get-go. 6. This leaves her as either the Sorcerer (in which case she was telling the truth about knowing that Cassie visited, not necessarily knowing her role though), or the Arsonist (in which case she lied about her own dousing and blaming Cassie was self-preservation, either blind and lucky or informed by the actual Sorcerer who did it, since Cassie confirmed having been controlled that night), or else Ginz followed instructions from a definitely suspicious third party (who hasn't been mentioned whatsoever).
The most likely case is that she's the Sorcerer. Even if not, she could still be the Arsonist, who also needs to die. So I propose that we execute Ginz, but if anyone has more reasonable suspicions as to the real Sorcerer or who would be better to kill than the Sorcerer right now, please make them known. I would agree that Ginz has been rather suspicious, especially seeing that she hasn't (to my knowledge) explained how she knew that Cassie visited Christos. Whether she was lying or not, if she doesn't give a defense on that end, I'd keep my suspicions on her.
I'd also like to point out though that there are some players who haven't spoken a word on some of the chats, which to my knowledge can be considered suspicious. At least, for players who haven't notified people that they'd be gone. Like Kristykimmy I've noticed has not said much, and I haven't seen any notices from her saying she'd be gone.
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Post by Gelquie on Jan 22, 2015 18:11:44 GMT -5
I kind of doubt that Ginz is the arsonist and that she lied about her own dousing, to be honest. No one else mentioned any other dousings that round or challenged it, and I think someone actually doused would be quick to do that. (Although I guess someone doused could also have died by the mafia that round, but the chances of that seem really small to me.)
I'm also not sure if the sorcerer is the most important role we need to kill. Not that we shouldn't kill them eventually, but if there's any chance that we're wrong, we're killing a townsperson for a less deadly role. I'm more concerned about the killing roles, especially the arsonist, who has already doused at least 3 people.
If nothing else, we could take the risk, but if anyone has ideas on who the other killing roles might be (I don't have any really solid ideas right now), we should probably discuss that now while we can.
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Post by Draco on Jan 22, 2015 18:15:11 GMT -5
I kind of doubt that Ginz is the arsonist and that she lied about her own dousing, to be honest. No one else mentioned any other dousings that round or challenged it, and I think someone actually doused would be quick to do that. (Although I guess someone doused could also have died by the mafia that round, but the chances of that seem really small to me.) I'm also not sure if the sorcerer is the most important role we need to kill. Not that we shouldn't kill them eventually, but if there's any chance that we're wrong, we're killing a townsperson for a less deadly role. I'm more concerned about the killing roles, especially the arsonist, who has already doused at least 3 people. If nothing else, we could take the risk, but if anyone has ideas on who the other killing roles might be (I don't have any really solid ideas right now), we should probably discuss that now while we can. Yeah I think we need to lay off the whole "Kill the sorcerer" thing.... It's not a role we NEED to worry about. Sure they can cause a little trouble, but they aren't outright killing us like other roles. So totally a WASTE of time. Now those who are determined to hunt down the sorcerer/ess... You guys sort of sound suspicious wanting to attack a role that won't totally hurt you. Downside is, I sort of have no clue on anyone else around here... Maybe some of the more quiet people? The ones who aren't defending or pointing fingers as much? The quiet ones are always dangerous. Now if you don't mind.... *fills GLQ's room with cats*
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Post by Kristykimmy on Jan 22, 2015 18:23:30 GMT -5
Well, I have no clue what happened tonight (not to mention what with everyone being so hush-hush about specifics like it's a plot puzzle or something), but unless anyone's got a better idea, I still think it'd be advantageous to execute Ginz since we're pretty sure she's the Sorcerer and was probably involved in this tragic death of two townies somehow. (Or it could be random bad luck. But we still need to burn the witch. D:<) So, if she weighs the same as a duck... she's made of wood... and therefore A WITCH!Recap of said train of logic: 1. The Arsonist visits Christos on the first night. 2. Ginz claims that Cassie visited Christos that night, suggesting (by omission of another name that the Spy would have access to) that Cassie was the only visitor that night. 3. Making such a claim pins Ginz as the Spy or the Sorcerer, or that she was informed by the actual Spy or Sorcerer. 4. Cassie confesses that she was controlled by the Sorcerer and was not given info on who she visited that night, other than that they were an innocent. After we executed her, it turns out she was the Detective. 5. That means Ginz is not the Spy, or else she would have known both visitors (Cassie and the mystery Arsonist), and in the best interest of the Town, would have shared both potential Arsonist suspects from the get-go. 6. This leaves her as either the Sorcerer (in which case she was telling the truth about knowing that Cassie visited, not necessarily knowing her role though), or the Arsonist (in which case she lied about her own dousing and blaming Cassie was self-preservation, either blind and lucky or informed by the actual Sorcerer who did it, since Cassie confirmed having been controlled that night), or else Ginz followed instructions from a definitely suspicious third party (who hasn't been mentioned whatsoever).
The most likely case is that she's the Sorcerer. Even if not, she could still be the Arsonist, who also needs to die. So I propose that we execute Ginz, but if anyone has more reasonable suspicions as to the real Sorcerer or who would be better to kill than the Sorcerer right now, please make them known. I would agree that Ginz has been rather suspicious, especially seeing that she hasn't (to my knowledge) explained how she knew that Cassie visited Christos. Whether she was lying or not, if she doesn't give a defense on that end, I'd keep my suspicions on her.
I'd also like to point out though that there are some players who haven't spoken a word on some of the chats, which to my knowledge can be considered suspicious. At least, for players who haven't notified people that they'd be gone. Like Kristykimmy I've noticed has not said much, and I haven't seen any notices from her saying she'd be gone.
I've only not said much because life was yucky at the start of the game, and after that the chat was kinda established with characters I can't get into it. I've been about saying my piece when I've wanted to. Everyone knows I'm here, pretty much everyone who frequents the bloids knew about my life problems, so I did notify people I wasn't around. You should come by the bloids, I don't think I've ever introduced you to my bazooka, have I?
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Post by Twillie on Jan 22, 2015 18:34:27 GMT -5
I would agree that Ginz has been rather suspicious, especially seeing that she hasn't (to my knowledge) explained how she knew that Cassie visited Christos. Whether she was lying or not, if she doesn't give a defense on that end, I'd keep my suspicions on her.
I'd also like to point out though that there are some players who haven't spoken a word on some of the chats, which to my knowledge can be considered suspicious. At least, for players who haven't notified people that they'd be gone. Like Kristykimmy I've noticed has not said much, and I haven't seen any notices from her saying she'd be gone.
I've only not said much because life was yucky at the start of the game, and after that the chat was kinda established with characters I can't get into it. I've been about saying my piece when I've wanted to. Everyone knows I'm here, pretty much everyone who frequents the bloids knew about my life problems, so I did notify people I wasn't around. You should come by the bloids, I don't think I've ever introduced you to my bazooka, have I? Alrighty, that clarification does help X)I don't think I'm familiar with this bazooka.
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Post by Kozma on Jan 22, 2015 18:40:59 GMT -5
Hey guys; I really think we need to be voting here. We had two townies killed last night and I believe if we don't do anything this round then things will get very disastrous.
I'm with Coaster in that we should aim to lynch the sorcerer. Despite what you think, the sorcerer can be a very important role for the mafia if they work together.
But seriously; VOTE guys - the outcome of this whole thing could very well be settled if noone gets lynched tonight.
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Post by Celestial on Jan 22, 2015 19:13:33 GMT -5
Robert: *ears flatten* This Sorcerer...they must be a Ranumgenist. Or Ranumgen himself? Ranumgen is a god known for his mischief and tricks. And while I would not fear Ranumgen, knowing the Lord Woo will grant me my salvation, I can only fear Ranumgen getting into the hearts of devout Wooists and forcing them to kill. People like the Warden and Vigilante...they are good people but they can be driven to terrible sins by the mischief of Ranumgen! *trots nervously in place* I don't know what to do. ;_; I'm scared, so scared...Woo, protect us! *barely stops from bolting*
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Post by Draco on Jan 22, 2015 19:15:00 GMT -5
Hey guys; I really think we need to be voting here. We had two townies killed last night and I believe if we don't do anything this round then things will get very disastrous. I'm with Coaster in that we should aim to lynch the sorcerer. Despite what you think, the sorcerer can be a very important role for the mafia if they work together. But seriously; VOTE guys - the outcome of this whole thing could very well be settled if noone gets lynched tonight. Any role can be important to Mafia if they work together! Imagine a backstabbing Spy working with them, not a good thing. Or a dirty detective? So in the end, it's not a role we should bother worrying about. Or maybe the Arsonist is a good thing to worry about? Maybe someone doused is LYING to cover their tracks? I mean, why hasn't the arsonist actually BURNED anything yet?
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Post by Gelquie on Jan 22, 2015 19:29:45 GMT -5
Hey guys; I really think we need to be voting here. We had two townies killed last night and I believe if we don't do anything this round then things will get very disastrous. I'm with Coaster in that we should aim to lynch the sorcerer. Despite what you think, the sorcerer can be a very important role for the mafia if they work together. But seriously; VOTE guys - the outcome of this whole thing could very well be settled if noone gets lynched tonight. Any role can be important to Mafia if they work together! Imagine a backstabbing Spy working with them, not a good thing. Or a dirty detective? So in the end, it's not a role we should bother worrying about. Or maybe the Arsonist is a good thing to worry about? Maybe someone doused is LYING to cover their tracks? I mean, why hasn't the arsonist actually BURNED anything yet? I don't really see a town role like the spy or the detective defecting to the mafia; it wouldn't work with the town win condition. Although I suppose it's possible someone could've lied about being doused. But I kind of doubt that considering that no one else seems to have any contradictory douse claims. That said, I'm not sure why the arsonist hasn't burned anyone yet. Hmm... As for voting, I'm still trying to think of who could be a killing role, since I still think they're more important to lynch. I might vote eventually, but not until I've thought about things more. We still have until tomorrow afternoon.
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Post by Coaster on Jan 22, 2015 20:02:54 GMT -5
Okay, let me rephrase... the Sorcerer is a killing role by now.
We could be looking at two more dead townspeople if the Sorcerer doesn't die tonight (three if the Mafia doesn't overlap), because the only way to get that type of death count at this stage of the game (and I have the logic worked out if anyone wants to read it) is for the Vigilante to have attacked someone the Bodyguard was protecting and been healed at the same time. Worst-case, they both screwed up on their own moves, and the Vigilante was lucky enough to get healed while the Bodyguard died in defense. More likely, one of the two was controlled.
Most dangerous, and (from what I gathered behind the scenes) most likely, is that the Sorcerer already knows who the Vigilante is, and with both the Healer and Bodyguard out of the way as of last night, there's not much stopping the Sorcerer from using the Vigilante to kill an innocent and cause the Vigilante to die of guilt at the same time (or to kill a neutral the Sorcerer doesn't particularly care for and then kill an innocent the next night). Even if by some miracles the Blacksmith manages to target perfectly and keep everyone alive for the next two nights (or the Diversionist inadvertently helps the Town), it's a waste of Vigilante bullets and Blacksmith vests, which would be really helpful in late-game when we have more clues as to who Mafia might be.
And even if the next-best thing we have a potential lead on is the Arsonist, we still agree that that's a role that is dangerous and needs to die because they can also cause mass casualties at any night now. (And, since roles with night actions can take a night off whenever they feel like it by just not sending in a move, it's a pretty good practical move for the Arsonist to do nothing once and say they were doused themself to ward off suspicion, especially early-on when they're just one of 25 random players.)
I don't think it's possible for an innocent role like Spy or Detective to defect to the Mafia or else they're violating the rule about game throwing (gotta stay loyal to your alignment, even after dying). If it isn't Ginz, I do have secondary suspicions as to who the Sorcerer or Arsonist could be, but really, at this point, the most substantial evidence we have of anything is that Ginz is evil. xD
please don't let Cassie have died in vain, guys, wasn't this dilemma what the whole execution was about? <_<
EDIT since I keep on editing: I know that as townspeople, neutrals, and even Mafia, we're scared of performing executions when they're not necessary because we might kill an innocent (or in the latter case, might kill someone evil)... but we can't forget the fact that there are still five roles dead-set against the Town winning, and they can keep doing whatever they want after each day we're too cowardly to come to a decision.
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Post by Draco on Jan 22, 2015 21:13:53 GMT -5
Okay, let me rephrase... the Sorcerer is a killing role by now. We could be looking at two more dead townspeople if the Sorcerer doesn't die tonight (three if the Mafia doesn't overlap), because the only way to get that type of death count at this stage of the game (and I have the logic worked out if anyone wants to read it) is for the Vigilante to have attacked someone the Bodyguard was protecting and been healed at the same time. Worst-case, they both screwed up on their own moves, and the Vigilante was lucky enough to get healed while the Bodyguard died in defense. More likely, one of the two was controlled. Most dangerous, and (from what I gathered behind the scenes) most likely, is that the Sorcerer already knows who the Vigilante is, and with both the Healer and Bodyguard out of the way as of last night, there's not much stopping the Sorcerer from using the Vigilante to kill an innocent and cause the Vigilante to die of guilt at the same time (or to kill a neutral the Sorcerer doesn't particularly care for and then kill an innocent the next night). Even if by some miracles the Blacksmith manages to target perfectly and keep everyone alive for the next two nights (or the Diversionist inadvertently helps the Town), it's a waste of Vigilante bullets and Blacksmith vests, which would be really helpful in late-game when we have more clues as to who Mafia might be. And even if the next-best thing we have a potential lead on is the Arsonist, we still agree that that's a role that is dangerous and needs to die because they can also cause mass casualties at any night now. (And, since roles with night actions can take a night off whenever they feel like it by just not sending in a move, it's a pretty good practical move for the Arsonist to do nothing once and say they were doused themself to ward off suspicion, especially early-on when they're just one of 25 random players.) I don't think it's possible for an innocent role like Spy or Detective to defect to the Mafia or else they're violating the rule about game throwing (gotta stay loyal to your alignment, even after dying). If it isn't Ginz, I do have secondary suspicions as to who the Sorcerer or Arsonist could be, but really, at this point, the most substantial evidence we have of anything is that Ginz is evil. xD please don't let Cassie have died in vain, guys, wasn't this dilemma what the whole execution was about? <_<EDIT since I keep on editing: I know that as townspeople, neutrals, and even Mafia, we're scared of performing executions when they're not necessary because we might kill an innocent (or in the latter case, might kill someone evil)... but we can't forget the fact that there are still five roles dead-set against the Town winning, and they can keep doing whatever they want after each day we're too cowardly to come to a decision. You say it's not possible to defect, but it totally is XD Even if it's not good for them XD (best not to guys, don't >.>). But since the Fluffle Trials, it's been nonstop Sorcerer this and Sorcerer that, kill Ginz this, and kill Ginz that! It's pretty annoying now. I honestly don't believe Ginz is Sorcerer or Arsonist. And I find you guys more suspicious every post. (and this isn't just because it's Ginz... I honestly have no doubt in her at this time.)
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Post by Twillie on Jan 22, 2015 21:26:57 GMT -5
Okay, let me rephrase... the Sorcerer is a killing role by now. We could be looking at two more dead townspeople if the Sorcerer doesn't die tonight (three if the Mafia doesn't overlap), because the only way to get that type of death count at this stage of the game (and I have the logic worked out if anyone wants to read it) is for the Vigilante to have attacked someone the Bodyguard was protecting and been healed at the same time. Worst-case, they both screwed up on their own moves, and the Vigilante was lucky enough to get healed while the Bodyguard died in defense. More likely, one of the two was controlled. Most dangerous, and (from what I gathered behind the scenes) most likely, is that the Sorcerer already knows who the Vigilante is, and with both the Healer and Bodyguard out of the way as of last night, there's not much stopping the Sorcerer from using the Vigilante to kill an innocent and cause the Vigilante to die of guilt at the same time (or to kill a neutral the Sorcerer doesn't particularly care for and then kill an innocent the next night). Even if by some miracles the Blacksmith manages to target perfectly and keep everyone alive for the next two nights (or the Diversionist inadvertently helps the Town), it's a waste of Vigilante bullets and Blacksmith vests, which would be really helpful in late-game when we have more clues as to who Mafia might be. And even if the next-best thing we have a potential lead on is the Arsonist, we still agree that that's a role that is dangerous and needs to die because they can also cause mass casualties at any night now. (And, since roles with night actions can take a night off whenever they feel like it by just not sending in a move, it's a pretty good practical move for the Arsonist to do nothing once and say they were doused themself to ward off suspicion, especially early-on when they're just one of 25 random players.) I don't think it's possible for an innocent role like Spy or Detective to defect to the Mafia or else they're violating the rule about game throwing (gotta stay loyal to your alignment, even after dying). If it isn't Ginz, I do have secondary suspicions as to who the Sorcerer or Arsonist could be, but really, at this point, the most substantial evidence we have of anything is that Ginz is evil. xD please don't let Cassie have died in vain, guys, wasn't this dilemma what the whole execution was about? <_<EDIT since I keep on editing: I know that as townspeople, neutrals, and even Mafia, we're scared of performing executions when they're not necessary because we might kill an innocent (or in the latter case, might kill someone evil)... but we can't forget the fact that there are still five roles dead-set against the Town winning, and they can keep doing whatever they want after each day we're too cowardly to come to a decision. You say it's not possible to defect, but it totally is XD Even if it's not good for them XD (best not to guys, don't >.>). But since the Fluffle Trials, it's been nonstop Sorcerer this and Sorcerer that, kill Ginz this, and kill Ginz that! It's pretty annoying now. I honestly don't believe Ginz is Sorcerer or Arsonist. And I find you guys more suspicious every post. (and this isn't just because it's Ginz... I honestly have no doubt in her at this time.) I'm not saying that I'm on any Ginz bandwagon right now as I have yet to vote, but what do you propose we do then instead of vote for her? Surely you have different plans that would benefit us of you're dedicated to opposing the idea.
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Post by Lizzie on Jan 22, 2015 21:38:00 GMT -5
guys, remember that there's also a retributionist out there. someone whose entire role is about killing an innocent townsperson. i dunno who the sorcerer is or isnt, but i do know that theres someone out there bent on killing one of us besides the mafia. so one of us may be biased.
(well,and arsonist, but nobodys claimed to be doused yet this round iirc...)
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Post by Avery on Jan 22, 2015 22:00:32 GMT -5
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