Are psychopaths born that way?

[Fang of the Dead]

Link
It's an interesting article, especially for someone who likes to get into the mindsets of villains when he's writing them. Sometimes, I just like to write a villain who doesn't HAVE an excuse beyond messed-up brain chemistry.

So, basically, are people with antisocial personality disorder born or made?

[Nimras]

I'd say they're born with a tendency, but it depends on how they're raised, and the environment they had to function in to become what people think of as a "psychopath."

I recall reading somewhere the that largest percentage of people who had psychopathic tendencies that had never been in any trouble with the law were.... business start-ups and CEOs. Because it's a field where being manipulative, ambitious, and not empathetic is rewarded. Respected even.

Though what makes one child with psychopathic tendances go off and make a "killing" in the business world, and another to actually go out and start killing people, that's a question that scientists trying to figure out.

[Pacmanite]

I read that article earlier, it was so interesting. It seems to imply that psychopaths are both born and made - that genetic differences and physical differences in people's brains are found in most psychopaths, but only a certain percentage of children born with those traits continue to be psychopaths as adults (or was it "become criminals"? I need to reread the article for that stat).

That surprised me, because I thought psychopaths were completely hopeless cases. It's exciting that they're trying to find ways of treating it in children. I don't know how long it'll be until they're actually effective at it (seems like the summer camp just taught some kids how to better misbehave), but if it's true that some people with psychopathic traits early in life become normal as they mature, then I think there is hope that some day there will be less cold-blooded violent criminals in the world because they got the treatment options they needed.

Psychopaths make for perhaps the most unrelenting, blood-chilling villains in fiction. But well, even though I fear them in fiction, I sometimes feel like because they're supposedly untreatable and it's utterly impossible for them to sympathise with people, I don't really think it would be fair to judge them for what they do, if that's all they can do. So I get frustrated with fictional psychopaths sometimes. I can't condemn them for what they are. If I want a villain to really disturb my senses, I want a villain about whom I can say, "that could have been me."

[Fang of the Dead]

See, I can say "that could have been me" about Kass. I know, it's crazy and all, considering how EEEEEEEEVIL I write him but the thing is... I fear I have sociopathic tendencies. I can be manipulative without even knowing it, I was prone to fits of rage when I was a kid and didn't get my way - sometimes sudden fits of rage or coldness still happen to me - and I'm still impulsive even as an adult and sometimes have trouble empathizing with people.

When I write, say, Xandra, I think "this is someone who's been nurtured - or rather, tortured into being a raving anti-Faerie psycho. However, even though she's done horrible things, she isn't beyond feeling real love towards others and actual empathy - it's just that in her mind, Faeries are all Complete Monsters." And she's justified, 'cause the Faeries in my writing are usually aloof yet condescendingly caring to Neopets at best, and are, at worst, contemptuous and outright EVIL to Neopets. Basically, I write them as the Fair Folk, so there's SOME justification to how messed up she is - the "good" ones look down on Neopets with a condescending love, acting like they're just animals who need protection from a better species. The less said about the bad Faeries, the better.

Kass, on the other hand... Since Neopia is, at most, still in the Victorian era of mental health facilities (They lock insane Neopets up in dungeons in meridell and the Citadel, and put them in asylums at Neoiva)... Well, if he had been on the Space Station, he'd have probably been diagnosed with Callous-Unemotional traits as a cub. As an adult, well... By then, he'd become the most cruel monster in Neopia. And I can still say "That could be me. It could still be me if something hadn't just clicked in my head sometime and kept me from going bad."

Also, apparently ten percent of people on Wall Street are clinical psychopaths. Quelle surprise.

[Deleted]

Fang, I don't think you're sociopathic at ALL. You've been uncommonly nice to me, and to everyone.

What I think...I think it depends partially on whether some kind of insanity runs in the family. In Harry Potter, Voldemort's uncle and grandfather were pretty crazy, and his mother was a bit of a wreck too, so it's not surprising that he was a little twisted from the get-go. But I do think a major factor is love. If any living thing grows without love, he or she will end up with a disillusioned view of the world and their heart will end up quite hard.

It's not just people who experience this. Animals (like cats and dogs) who are neglected and/or abused by their owners become very distrustful of humans. It's not just a human tendency to be "bad". All living things need love to survive mentally, emotionally and spiritually.

I've observed that my parents have raised me with a LOT of love, and thus I'm optimistic, open-hearted, and empathetic. I have so much love in me that I have quite a bit to share. And I've also observed this with my dogs. Our dogs have been trained very gently. If they mess up, they get a stern talking-to but we've NEVER hit any of our animals. My dogs are the sweetest dogs ever because of it.

Now, if my dogs had been horribly treated, beaten, and left out in the rain, then they would probably be quite different.

[Fang of the Dead]

Thanks, Sae.

I just have a feeling that if my parents hadn't raised me so well, I would have ended up becoming a monster.

[Deleted]

As with most personality disorders, you can't really generalize it. It's a complicated thing with a multitude of possible origins. Some may have an innate predisposition towards it. Some develop it solely due to life events. Some naturally lean towards it and then be pushed further into it by life events. :S But...I'unno.

Also, quick note: psychopathy is not necessarily synonymous with antisocial personality disorder. It's more like a subset.

[Deleted]

May 14, 2012 21:01:54 GMT -5 Fang of the Dead said:

Thanks, Sae.

I just have a feeling that if my parents hadn't raised me so well, I would have ended up becoming a monster.

There's a big difference between having some character flaws and actually having a personality disorder, much less one like ASPD. Only about 3% of males are identified as having the disorder and they're usually diagnosed with conduct disorder as children. The main characteristic of ASPD is a continued disregard for (or violation of) the rights of others and honestly I don't think that's you at all. Especially since it's possible to exhibit all the symptoms of a disorder at different stages in any human life without ever having anything psychologically wrong. Everyone can violate someone else's rights at times.

[Dju]

Hmm...that's interesting to think about. I suppose it depends pretty much on each person's personality and the way they deal with their mental disorders.
John Forbes Nash, for example, had paranoid schizophrenia and managed to deal with it using his logic. His intentions beat his biologic issues.

But psychopathy...it's a very complicated disorder, with endless possibilities. they feel no guilt or regret, according to some studies... X__x
As far as I know, psychopaths have parts of their brains that are bigger than a regular person's, so they tend to be very intelligent and great strategists. You never know what to expect from them, they might be serial like Jack the Ripper or act forever undercover.

I read an interesting article about why psychopaths can't feel guilt or regret over here: www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2065161/Psychopaths-arent-just-mentally-different--brains-physically-deformed-prevent-feeling-fear-guilt.html

medicalxpress.com/news/2011-11-psychopaths-brains-differences-function.html

[Lex Luthor]

I've written, read and discussed this issue in great length. For reading on the subject I would suggest "The Science of Evil" by Simon Baron-Cohen. Hes a professor of Developmental Psychopathology at Cambridge.

Essentially the book describes the notion of empathy on a bell curve. There will be one extreme of those with zero empathy and another extreme with those with an abundance of empathy. The vast majority of individuals will of course fall somewhere in the middle. B-C writes a good number of pages on the idea that those with zero empathy in that an individual will have "no awareness of how [they] come across to others, how to interact with others, or how to anticapate their feelings or reactions."

B-C argues however that once at zero empathy, there is a split between zero-positive and zero-negative, in that those with 0- generally are the violent, manipulative and socially destructive individuals labeled psycho/sociopaths. Those who are 0+ tend to be those who fall in the autistic spectrum such as those with Asperger syndrome. B-C writes on these 0+ individuals that "their brain processes information paradoxically leads them to be supermoral rather than immoral."

For further reading I would suggest The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout and the Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson. Both give detailed stories about real-life sociopaths whom may or may not have turned violent, but overall scored highly on the PCL-R.

Here is a piece I wrote on the subject for a blog I use to do: fromonepawntoanother.blogspot.com/2011/05/return-to-sociopathy-origin-and-inner.html#more

[Deleted]

Erm...I have Asperger's and I tend to feel quite a bit of empathy. Especially with my mom. When she's angry or sad, I feel it too because I'm unhappy that she's angry or sad.

[Deleted]

It depends on how you define empathy. Is it an ease in identifying another person's emotions and perspective? If so, then yes, folks on the spectrum struggle with that. I find it very hard to pick up on how other people are feeling or how I should respond, which makes me come across as either unintelligent or self-centered. (Although to be fair, I am self-centered. ) If someone is venting about something I can't relate to, I generally don't say anything because I feel that anything I say would be hollow and useless. I forget that, sometimes, it's enough just to give people those words. But if someone clarifies for me how they're feeling, I feel for them, and how. That's sympathy.

I'm not a fan of Baron-Cohen, mostly because of his ideas about autism and the "male brain", but I think it's easy to misunderstand his theory of empathy primarily because people have trouble defining it, and over time it has acquired some terrible connotations. People seem to forget you can be a good person even if you lack empathy. How good a person you are does not depend on how easily you can pick up on others' feelings--that's just unfair. You can't fault someone for something they don't know. It depends, I think, on how you handle others' emotions once you're aware of them.

From what I've seen, some of those with antisocial personality disorder seem to understand other people's thought processes very well. :X The problem is that they don't care. And instead, they'll use that knowledge and manipulate others to their advantage. Most of those on the spectrum will struggle just to pick up on those unspoken words.