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Post by Dju on Nov 20, 2011 11:49:30 GMT -5
Last Friday I went to a neurologist to give feedback about how I was doing (I have Attention Deficit), and I always hate going there because the waiting room is quite...uncomfortable. It's filled with hyper children who won't stop throwing things on other people and crying, confusion, anger...it's really awkward. So the neurologist mentioned that parents with children that have conditions sometimes are overprotective, she told us about a girl whose parents let her miss school for months, she already failed 4 years now because of that, she has some kind of syndrome but from what the doctor told me, she functions well.
So I thought this would make a nice discussion, it's a really blurry topic to me, I never thought about it much so...yeah. XD
What do you think about parents that protect their children with conditions? Is it necessary to an extreme even if the child is almost completely dependent? How should parents deal with this? What are the consequences?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2011 16:05:43 GMT -5
My mother was a single parent for the majority of my childhood, and while she wasn't overprotective to the point of smothering, she was certainly very cautious with me due to my sight, and I suppose also somewhat the way I look, too. I think she realized quite early on that I was inevitably going to be bullied and ostracized, and she worried constantly about how I was going to cope. As a parent, she naturally wanted to shelter me from a lot of brutal truths about the world. I am very grateful that she had a large and close-knit extended family who, despite being up north, were able to render support, advice and encouragement that allowed her to make many of the decisions that would later shape my life and who I was to become.
One of the biggest choices she had to make on my behalf was where I was going to attend school. My biological father's step-mother remained very close friends, and she was also fairly well off money-wise. She offered to pay my school fees for Fendalton Primary, a fairly posh and well-to-do school with a really good education program and average disability support. The alternative was a school whose name I can't remember, but it was a specialized school for children with mental and/or physical disabilities. It had amazing facilities, support and care, but the majority of the students who attended were severely mentally disabled and would usually never be able to sustain what could be called a "normal" life. (I sincerely hope I'm not offending anyone by this, I'm just having trouble finding the perfect words for things right now)
So she eventually sent me to the first school where I didn't get much support, got physically bullied very badly (it landed me in hospital once) and which offered me the minimum support legally required of them for my in-class assistance. It was the best choice she could have made, because through all that trouble I learned some very valuable lessons. Firstly, that I was different, and that the world is cruel to different people, but that it didn't have to be, and that I was part of that "world", so I had a choice to either be like my bullies, or be kind. This lesson took a long time to fully sink in as, like every other kid, I had my moments of cruelty to other children, all of which I remember and regret very much. I learned that I could be much more than what my teachers expected of me, and I learned that flying their expectations made me feel really good. I learned that working hard made me feel good because no one expected me to be able to do a lot of what the other kids were doing. And I learned that I have limitations. I was so determined to be "normal" that I often got myself into trouble trying to do things I now know I can't do. But once I learned to accept rather than fight against my disability, I was able to find alternate ways of doing things.
And very recently, I have learned the humility of asking for help when I need it, which is the completion of my acceptance and a milestone in my adaptation to the various difficulties life will continue to throw at me.
Peer learning is an important aspect of child development. Had I attended the school for the disabled, I would have learned from my peers that screaming gets you attention, that you don't have to work hard or ask for help because you can be entirely dependent on the care of others, that I can achieve any goal but only if I want to and I don't really have to try too hard at it. And I would have learned no good social skills and a lot of bad ones.
There is an important contrast to see here - that of the mentally disabled and the physically disabled. Physical disabilities are plain to see much of the time, they are obvious and it is therefore easier for them to find help, to adapt and sometimes even to become inspirational. Mental disabilities are often subtle, unseen and overlooked,or treated with such stigma that it becomes almost impossible for the mentally disabled person to achieve as well as some physically disabled people. Heck, a lot of mental disabilities go undiagnosed for years, and by the time a diagnosis is given it's too late for any effective intervention, so all they really get is the bombshell and the stigma.
And we have to take into consideration the fact that there is a certain class of mentally disabled people who are simply incapable of adapting or altering their lives in meaningful ways. I don't mean to offend anyone here, but part of what I learned was that, no matter how adaptive, innovative, determined and earnest I am, there are some things I simply am not able to do, even when I try to find alternative ways of doing them. Likewise, other disabled people will have things that they are incapable of doing or being. I will never work in the medical profession, which was something I wanted for the longest time when I was quite young. Some mentally disabled people will be very very limited in everything they do, and unlike a lot of miner mental and physical disabilities, there's just no overcoming a brain that refuses to cooperate. Perhaps there will be in the future, but as of right now there are a class of people who will get no benefit from school of any kind.
If the parent of any such child did as my mother did, it would be a great cruelty, in my opinion. I could benefit from attending a regular school, some could only benefit from attending a special school which was better equipped for their needs, and some will not benefit from any school, no matter how well they're cared for or how patient the teachers are. In my case it was appropriate to push me, in other cases it's appropriate to let them work at their own pace, and in some cases it is appropriate to protect the child from all that the world will throw at them, because they are not, and cannot ever be ready to handle it.
So yes, some kinds of protectiveness are very appropriate, but it depends entirely on the child involved. And there is one other thing I would like to point out which my mother told me - you can quip all you like about parents of disabled children, but you will never understand how devastating or how hard it is until you walk a lifetime of agonizing choices in their highly burdened shoes. Parenthood is hard enough as it is without the added weight of trying to guide a disabled child into a world which will likely as not chew them up and spit them out.
The worst possible thing you could do for a disabled child is to perpetuate the notion that they are normal. Adaptation involves acceptance, and that's the best way to conquer. ^_^
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Post by Dju on Nov 20, 2011 17:02:19 GMT -5
That's amazing, Sarn! you have an amazing point there!
I couldn't agree more here. XD
I have attention deficit, I'm glad it's not really serious and I am really thankful I have it, because it made me who I am.
But it was diagnosed like...I dunno, six months ago? For my entire life teachers and colleagues called me dumb at my face, they said my brain was small and I felt as such. I didn't knew what was wrong with me, why I couldn't focus even if I forced myself to hear everything the teacher said, it was so hard to keep up. People called me lazy and crazy (yay, rhyme!) and even now days they do, telling me that this is just an excuse for my "dumbness".
But when the Neurologist diagnosed me, it was a sort of...relief. It meant it wasn't my fault, I finally understood my limits and how to do things better, adapting myself in my own way other then the rest of the world. And now I believe I am just as productive as the rest of my colleagues! ^U^
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2011 18:43:17 GMT -5
That's amazing, Sarn! you have an amazing point there! I couldn't agree more here. XD I have attention deficit, I'm glad it's not really serious and I am really thankful I have it, because it made me who I am. But it was diagnosed like...I dunno, six months ago? For my entire life teachers and colleagues called me dumb at my face, they said my brain was small and I felt as such. I didn't knew what was wrong with me, why I couldn't focus even if I forced myself to hear everything the teacher said, it was so hard to keep up. People called me lazy and crazy (yay, rhyme!) and even now days they do, telling me that this is just an excuse for my "dumbness". But when the Neurologist diagnosed me, it was a sort of...relief. It meant it wasn't my fault, I finally understood my limits and how to do things better, adapting myself in my own way other then the rest of the world. And now I believe I am just as productive as the rest of my colleagues! ^U^ <3! I'm so glad, Dju! And you're right, expecting you to compete school in exactly the same way as everyone else without any kind of assistance is just unreasonable in the same way it is unreasonable for someone to point at something and expect me to be able to see it. I'm glad you have a diagnosis and hopefully with time people will become more accepting and understanding of your circumstances. But I gather that, like me, the majority of your difficulties have served only to make you stronger and help you understand, which is something that a lot of "normal" people never get to experience fully. x3 We speshul. =D |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2011 21:10:59 GMT -5
The worst possible thing you could do for a disabled child is to perpetuate the notion that they are normal. Adaptation involves acceptance, and that's the best way to conquer. ^_^ Umm...I think the better thing to do is to call the child "special" rather than"disabled". Blind people, I believe, can hear better, so they may be better singers. If my child were blind and had a singing passion, I would tell her, "You have the gift of song, and that makes you important. There are few people who can sing like you do." I would never tell a child (s)he was disabled, even if someone else did. I'd point out all the good things and remind them that they are not normal for a reason: they're so much better than that. They're special and a wonder of the world. (I don't really believe in "normal", anyway. Everyone has their own sets of ups and downs, and all that makes a unique, beautiful person.) |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2011 21:28:30 GMT -5
The worst possible thing you could do for a disabled child is to perpetuate the notion that they are normal. Adaptation involves acceptance, and that's the best way to conquer. ^_^ Umm...I think the better thing to do is to call the child "special" rather than"disabled". Blind people, I believe, can hear better, so they may be better singers. If my child were blind and had a singing passion, I would tell her, "You have the gift of song, and that makes you important. There are few people who can sing like you do." I would never tell a child (s)he was disabled, even if someone else did. I'd point out all the good things and remind them that they are not normal for a reason: they're so much better than that. They're special and a wonder of the world. (I don't really believe in "normal", anyway. Everyone has their own sets of ups and downs, and all that makes a unique, beautiful person.) If someone called me "special" I'd flip the bird at them and tell them to go learn some manners. "Special" to me is just a sissy way of saying "you're different so I'm going to be as nice to you as possible because I feel sorry for you and I feel the need to make you feel good about yourself because gawsh it must be so terrible to be you", and that to me is the ultimate offense. The simple plain fact is, I am disabled. There are things I can't do no matter how much I want to believe I can. I made that mistake too many times and it cost me a lot of energy I could have poured into doing things I know I can do. And no, not every disabled person has some special gift that makes up for their disability. My other senses are no better than those of anyone else. In all other aspects of my physicality I'm just average. I'm not going to delude myself that just because I can't see so well, that somehow makes me more "special" or better than someone who has all their visual faculties, that's just obnoxious and haughty. Now, there is something to be said for the extra attention I pay to my other senses - I rely on my hearing more than my sight so I devote more brainpower to it. It has nothing to do with my ears being in any way better, simply that I concentrate more on what I hear than on anything else. And Sae, in principle I agree with you - everyone is different and "normal" as an everyday construct simply doesn't exist, but "normal" in a scientific context certainly does exist. There are certain constants which nature observes, and so to with humans. Most humans have what is called "normal" eyesight, and the only way I was able to be diagnosed as having a disability (a diagnosis which led to assistance which allowed me to do many things I wouldn't have been able to without it) was by establishing what is considered "normal" eyesight and putting me outside of that. Whenever a debate about disabilities crops up, Sae, you always come in with this argument against the definition of "disability" and the same arguments are typed back to you in turn. You obviously have trouble accepting the notion of differences because you look too much at the stigma rather than the inspiration. I am in no way special on my own, what makes me special is not my abilities, but my willingness to fully accept that, yes, I am disabled, I am very different and some people will inevitably tease or exclude me because of that, but I will not deny that I am disabled, nor will I pretend that I have any sort of special ability that no one else has. I am good at singing, but so are half the other people in the world. What makes me special is that I accept and embrace my disability and turn it into new kinds of abilities, while still acknowledging that I'm not able to be a brain surgeon. I would suggest to you that you focus more on the topic at hand than on the issue of definition and your own personal acceptance (or lack) of said definitions. It'll save you a lot of hurt and drama. |
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Post by Fj0rd on Nov 20, 2011 22:11:12 GMT -5
I have mixed feelings about the whole "overprotective" thing. It's hard to make sweeping generalizations about it, because every case is so individual.
My parents put a lot of restrictions on me as a child. A lot of them were, sure, for my own safety. Were that many restrictions good for me? Was it a good thing that my first anaphylactic allergic reaction (since I was a tiny child) happened when I was halfway across the country from my parents--or would it have been better if I had been on a looser metaphorical leash and had had anaphylactic reactions before that, and knew better how to deal with them? I don't know. I certainly would've liked it more if I had gotten to do more things, but many of my parents' concerns were based in fact.
Part of the annoying things was that my parents simultaneously said that I could do anything (career goals! life plans!) while implying that I couldn't do a lot of things that "normal" people could do (go to friends' houses, have sleepovers, go out for meals with friends, live on my own/outside of a bubble). When my dad dropped me off at college, over a thousand miles from where I grew up, he told me that when I was an infant he and my mother hadn't expected that I would ever be able to leave home. They weren't sure how independent I could be. Up until the year before I left for college, my mother was telling me I should stay in the same city, live at home. (And, well, here I am.) Until my dad told me that, I never dreamed that my parents had seriously thought I wouldn't be able to leave home--my mother is a comprehensive worrywort, so I just assumed her fears were more of that, but if my dad had thought that too...
I'm not sure how my life would've gone if my parents had made different choices. Certainly the restrictions frequently chafed. But my memories of them are all a child's memories, so it's hard for me to tell in hindsight whether my parents were justified or not in any particular instance.
Not sure if this post has a point, sorry. Mostly I just wanted to say that it can be very complicated, and that having protective parents can be a neutral thing--not good or bad, particularly, but something to deal with. I've fought off a lot of the restrictions my parents put on me, and it turns out I can deal with more than they thought, which rocks. But if I'd been wrong, I'm not sure what would have happened. It's all on shaky ground.
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Post by Gav on Nov 20, 2011 23:18:23 GMT -5
Mmhm, just remember guys that there is a separate thread for discussion of disabilities here, right? ^__^ Otherwise, just agree to disagree on that.
My dad is a little protective I think, but I don't think he's to the point of overprotectiveness. He prefers it when I call him if I'm going out, etc. Which, while it is a bit annoying considering how old I am, I can understand from his point of view. After all, a phone call for his peace of mind isn't a big deal to pay.
But yeah, schools have to deal with a lot of overprotective parents. They're handing over a significant part of their kid's life to them, and if they don't feel that it's in their best interests, they're definitely going to put up a fight.
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Post by Crystal on Nov 21, 2011 0:32:57 GMT -5
My parents have been singularly unprotective my whole life, so I don't feel like I have a lot to contribute to this discussion.  But I do agree that parenthood to a child is one of the hardest things; and to a disabled child even more so. I don't really think I'm in a position to criticize a parent for how they handle their children, unless it's somehow blatantly brutal or clearly wrong. Everyone does their best, and even if your best is not always good enough, it's still all you've got to work with. Sae: I think Sarn's mostly being pragmatic here. I'm sure you don't mean it that way - in fact most people don't - but what you've described can easily be interpreted as 'coddling' or 'pitying' someone. Many disabled people have had to go through very tough times in their life; they are people who have had to work extra hard to overcome the difficulties that come from not being 'normal'. People who have really struggled to accomplish something are often proud of what they've done to get as far as they have. They're proud of their challenges, difficulties, and hurts, because they've overcome them and made themselves stronger through them. We don't brag about lifting a book - that's normal. We brag about lifting cars, or 5000-pound trucks, or something. That's why to call someone 'special' can actually be a demeaning term, because in a way, you're belittling their struggles, accomplishments, and hard work by suggesting that they didn't have a barrier to begin with. You can definitely call your child 'special' if you'd like to, and tell them all the good things about themselves. Every good parent should do that. But do remember that if you call someone else 'special' it can actually be just as offensive as the term 'disabled', so use either term with respect to the situation. You musn't let yourself be so caught up in the good things that you overlook what someone can't do - because those are also things that have to be faced, handled and dealt with in life. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2011 1:04:29 GMT -5
My parents have been singularly unprotective my whole life, so I don't feel like I have a lot to contribute to this discussion. But I do agree with Sarn that parenthood to a child is one of the hardest things; and to a disabled child even more so. I don't really think I'm in a position to criticize a parent for how they handle their children, unless it's somehow blatantly brutal or clearly wrong. Everyone does their best, and even if your best is not always good enough, it's still all you've got to work with. Sae: I think Sarn's mostly being pragmatic here. I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but what you've described can easily be interpreted as 'coddling' or 'pitying' someone. Many disabled people have had to go through very tough times in their life; they are people who have had to work extra hard to overcome the difficulties that come from not being 'normal'. That's what being disabled is. Furthermore, they're often proud of what they've done to get as far as they have. To call someone 'special' can actually be a demeaning term, because in a way, you're belittling their struggles, accomplishments, and hard work by suggesting that they didn't have a barrier to begin with. You can definitely call your child 'special' if you'd like to, and tell them all the good things about themselves. But do remember that if you use it in public it can actually be just as offensive as the term 'disabled'. You musn't let yourself be so caught up in the good things that you overlook what someone can't do - because those are also things that have to be faced, handled and dealt with in life. <3 My hero. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2011 15:10:01 GMT -5
Since I was also identified as gifted, I was really pushed to excel. I don't know how my situation would have been different if I didn't have the… above standard level of academic prowess, I suppose. I will say that it is a good thing I was challenged to the best of my abilities, but unfortunately the way it was handled made me feel that my self worth was tied to my grades. I still feel that way with my parents a lot of the time even now.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2011 8:29:30 GMT -5
And Sae, in principle I agree with you - everyone is different and "normal" as an everyday construct simply doesn't exist, but "normal" in a scientific context certainly does exist.  |
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Post by Robyn on Nov 30, 2011 8:59:01 GMT -5
Haha, I have ADHD too, Dju! -high five- As well as a horribly complicated, unpredictable, hard-to-explain genetic medical condition that definitely qualifies as a disability. Lol. XD
I've been wanting to post here for a while now but haven't really had the energy or time to compose what all I've wanted to say, but I know I have some good personal background with this because of my unique situation, so let me have at it here for a second.
In my case, my condition leaves me on the cusp of being a pretty much all-around regular person until I push myself too hard-- whether this means stressing myself out over something going on in my life or physically just doing too much and wearing myself out, it doesn't really matter. I can completely crash and be out of commission for days. My mother suffers from the same condition (it being genetic and all), and she is EXTREMELY protective when it comes to what all she feels I can and cannot do. What would be 'too much' for me, in a sense.
She was the one who, after two trips to the ER after three weeks at college, finalized the decision for me to come home and sit out the rest of the semester. Was this her being overly protective? In my dad's eyes, yes. XD Was this also a wise choice? I think so. I wasn't lasting over there and I was kidding myself if I was thinking I could've just kept pushing on through in an environment that clearly wasn't working for me. In that case, it was good for her to be protective as a mother who wants what's best for me as her child.
But the flipside of this is that I am also taking my first steps into true adulthood. I'm going to be 19 in March, and a large part of me feels like it is time for me to take the reins of how I deal with my illness. I'm signing up with a community college right next to my house, and I'll be taking courses there next semester if things work out properly. I'll probably go there next year as well. I'm also looking around town for a job, so that I can hopefully get some work experience and added social interaction when I'm not at school. I'm excited to be gaining more independence and being able to stand on my own two feet.
However, when my mom gets TOO protective, it feels like she's trying to drag me back down and make me sit again. My dad and brother desperately want me to start reforming my eating habits and to take up an exercise plan. We were talking about it over dinner one night, and they suggested I start benching a little with the equipment we have upstairs (with their guidance and help, of course). Mom was adamant that I call the doctor before I do /anything/ like that. Jogging, weights, riding a bike-- nope, better call the doctor first. She constantly wants to have me get checked for vitamin deficiencies and thyroid levels and medication functionality... It's actually become quite a divisive issue between my mom and my dad, but that's a different story altogether.
It gets to be a little much. Sometimes it feels like half the conversations we have are about medications and doctors and being sick. I know she means well, but this is something I'm going to have to handle on my own someday, and I know I need to start taking care of myself BY myself now. Partly because she's bugging me (XD), and partly because her worrying about me is just putting a lot more pressure on HER shoulders, needlessly. I love her and am so grateful for all she's done for me already, but I think it would do all of us a whole world of good if she started to ease up a little.
So, Dju, I guess what I'm trying to illustrate here is just one example of how parental protectiveness towards illnesses can affect a family. There is a time when it's appropriate, a time when it's not, and a time when a parent finally needs to let the child stand on their own, if that time ever comes. I know all situations are different, but that's just how it's been with me so far.
PHEW. FEELS GOOD TO GET ALL THAT OUT. <3
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2011 15:59:58 GMT -5
And Sae, in principle I agree with you - everyone is different and "normal" as an everyday construct simply doesn't exist, but "normal" in a scientific context certainly does exist. Sorry but ... what was the point of repeating what I said? |
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Post by Killix on Dec 1, 2011 8:58:09 GMT -5
*runs in and cactus thwacks Spambot into ban-hammer space* Sorry but ... what was the point of repeating what I said? Repeating random lines from random posts is a favourite passtime of some Spambots. *nod* |
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Furgo 
Michael. 
But I do agree that parenthood to a child is one of the hardest things; and to a disabled child even more so. I don't really think I'm in a position to criticize a parent for how they handle their children, unless it's somehow blatantly brutal or clearly wrong. Everyone does their best, and even if your best is not always good enough, it's still all you've got to work with.
