Karma: The Who, The What, The Application

[Jacob]

I'll be blunt: I don't believe Karma really exists. From the very simple understanding that I've been taught second hand, it's all about good and bad actions being rewarded in like. I punch someone, I'm likely to get punched down the road. I nurture somebody wounded, and I'll be cared for as well when I'm hurting.

To me, this seemed a little too much like magic, as if someone somewhere is keeping score on who did what, and will be punished or rewarded for what they did.

Then I reasoned with it a bit, and thought it had more to do with cause and effect (and of nature), where positive actions will more likely bring about positive to all, and eventually to the original perpetrator. I eventually gave up on that idea as well, because in the end it's not about what actions I give to another, but on the choice they make. Sure, I could continue to do harm/good to someone and thereby bring about a higher chance of a certain effect, but it could very well never come about. Good or ill, it's on the whim of the individual, and not science.

What I've come around to thinking at least (among other things). Thing is and as I've already stated, I don't know that much about the true intention and wording of Karma. I once got into a small discussion on Karma with a few others, but it ended prematurely when someone blurted out something or other and then just went back to his business, no one else wanting to participate. Something about harmonious something or other? He considered himself a druid, so it may had something to do with that for all I know.

So...a little help please? I was hoping to do a written report on what I felt Karma was like, and then came to the conclusion I would need more data before I could even begin writing. So what do you think?

Created a poll for this this just for the heck of it. Feel free to put your vote down, though I'm sure you already know mine considering this post.

[Stal]

The question I have is what do you actually want to hear about? The religious/philosophical concepts of karma coming out of India (which isn't necessarily as usually popularized) or the common view of it?

[Gav]

I was about to go on a big speil on how good things should ideally be done because they're the right thing to do, but I'm gonna echo Stal here before I end up putting up irrevelant opinions.

[Nimras]

I'll take a stab, since I think I get where you're going with this.

I do not believe that there is some neutral cosmic force that merits out punishments and rewards based on how you act.

That said, I do think the idea of karma is something that bring about on themselves with their own actions upon/around the people around them. If you're a jerk, people are going to be less willing to help you out when you need help. If you're nice, people will like you more and be more willing to go out of their own way to help you. Not cosmic force, but simply social networking or cause and effect. If you drive like a jerk, (hitting the breaks and then punching the gas, lots of sharp turns) the damage done to the car via this rough treatment will make it break down more often - not because some cosmic force made your car break to "punish" you for driving like a jerk.

I hope that helps?

[selmette]

everything usually comes down to what you define it as. i take karma to mean the principle simply that when you do good, good will come to you, and when you do bad, bad things will happen. not as if there is some cosmic scorekeeper favouring kinder people over others, but as if the universe is trying to balance itself out. pretty much any way you try to look it at, i don't believe karma actually exists.

i wholly support the idea of karma though, or something closely related. i think the purpose of karma is to keep people from doing stupid things that would have lasting or unfavourable(or i guess both) consequences. even with philosophy and religion(or because of, depending on how you look at it) you can see there's still a lot going on that isn't right with the world. i don't want to imagine what life would be like if people had no moral guideline. as long as karma serves a functional purpose, i have no problem with belief in it. it's just not something i can easily accept.

i hope that was at least somewhat relevant and coherent?

[Sock]

The thing that bothers me about karma is that there is a victim blaming element to it. Believing if you're a good person good things come to you is all fine and dandy, but do people who have awful things happen to them deserve it because they weren't good enough? Even in the Buddhist philosophy where it's because of something you did in a past life, it still bothers me. I don't like to think that people who have awful things happen "deserve it" somehow because they had bad karma.

[Huntress]

Sept 17, 2011 11:57:11 GMT -5 Sock said:

The thing that bothers me about karma is that there is a victim blaming element to it. Believing if you're a good person good things come to you is all fine and dandy, but do people who have awful things happen to them deserve it because they weren't good enough? Even in the Buddhist philosophy where it's because of something you did in a past life, it still bothers me. I don't like to think that people who have awful things happen "deserve it" somehow because they had bad karma.

As far as I remember my theological studies, it's not about deserving, it's about earning. The idea of karma is more or less that you earn the things that happen to you with your actions. Do good things and you earn good things. Do bad things and you earn bad things.

I'm more or less with Nimras on this. Even leaving aside the Buddhist ideas of the karmic reincarnation cycle, it tends to work out this way in life anyway. If you act in a way that the society at large would consider reprehensive and get away with it, you'll sooner or later run into someone who won't let you get away with it. Whereas if you're the kind of person who treats other people well, you're also likely to be the kind of person who makes other people want to treat you well.

[Stephanie (swordlilly)]

I think Sock is saying that if you believe too deeply in karma, you might end up being uncaring/judgmental. Like when you see someone with cancer, you might think: "She must have eaten unhealthily," or when you see a young person struggling with mental illness: "His parents must have raised him improperly." People aren't always responsible for the bad things that happen to them.

Which leads me to another point - If you think that some cosmic balance-scale will put everything in order, then you might become more morally passive. Like when you see someone begging on the street: "If he works hard, he'll get out of this situation eventually." Or when you see someone getting bullied: "That bully will suffer for his actions eventually. And that victim will be compensated eventually." You'd be less likely to lend a helping hand.

Some food for thought.

[Komori]

I often wish karma DID exist, but I don't believe it does. Least, not in my beliefs. I believe everyone will have to answer to their actions on Judgement Day, but until then, there'll be lots of bad things happening to good people, and vice-versa.

[Gav]

Really though, there's the whole thing about context as well. I've done good things for people just because my heart told me to, but gotten flak/in trouble for it because it was the wrong thing to do in a situation, or it wasn't the best choice.

Doing good things is well, but sometimes it's not always the right thing.

[Sock]

Sept 17, 2011 20:18:52 GMT -5 Stephanie (swordlilly) said:

I think Sock is saying that if you believe too deeply in karma, you might end up being uncaring/judgmental. Like when you see someone with cancer, you might think: "She must have eaten unhealthily," or when you see a young person struggling with mental illness: "His parents must have raised him improperly." People aren't always responsible for the bad things that happen to them.

Which leads me to another point - If you think that some cosmic balance-scale will put everything in order, then you might become more morally passive. Like when you see someone begging on the street: "If he works hard, he'll get out of this situation eventually." Or when you see someone getting bullied: "That bully will suffer for his actions eventually. And that victim will be compensated eventually." You'd be less likely to lend a helping hand.

Some food for thought.

This is exactly what bothers me about karma.

[Crystal]

Sept 17, 2011 13:58:17 GMT -5 Huntress said:

Sept 17, 2011 11:57:11 GMT -5 Sock said:

The thing that bothers me about karma is that there is a victim blaming element to it. Believing if you're a good person good things come to you is all fine and dandy, but do people who have awful things happen to them deserve it because they weren't good enough? Even in the Buddhist philosophy where it's because of something you did in a past life, it still bothers me. I don't like to think that people who have awful things happen "deserve it" somehow because they had bad karma.

As far as I remember my theological studies, it's not about deserving, it's about earning. The idea of karma is more or less that you earn the things that happen to you with your actions. Do good things and you earn good things. Do bad things and you earn bad things.

I'm more or less with Nimras on this. Even leaving aside the Buddhist ideas of the karmic reincarnation cycle, it tends to work out this way in life anyway. If you act in a way that the society at large would consider reprehensive and get away with it, you'll sooner or later run into someone who won't let you get away with it. Whereas if you're the kind of person who treats other people well, you're also likely to be the kind of person who makes other people want to treat you well.

What if you were a manipulative jerk and treated other people 'well' for the wrong reasons?

[Deleted]

I don't think karma exists. But I really wish it did.

Through the hardship I've been through, I'd like to think that I've done plenty of good things. And when I've been the most frustrated with my situation, I've found myself looking to the sky, asking ''why? What did I do to deserve this?''
... but then the anti-drama queen inside me kicks me in the butt and I move on.

I do believe that everything happens for a reason, whether it's good or bad. And a bad situation can be turned for the better eventually.

I don't think karma exists, but I think 'karma' can happen, if that makes any sense.
If I do good deeds over and over, but crud keeps raining down on me, I can choose to keep fighting and eventually something good will happen, and then I can call it 'karma'.
If I treat people like crud, and is generally a nasty person, I may achieve things that are good to me, but in the deep perspective of things, there are bad reasons for making me a nasty person - thus making the 'good things' not that good at all, and I could also call that karma.

Getting good karma requires hard work.
Whereas getting bad karma takes less work but is harder to get rid of.

[Lord Hayati]

In a way, I think Karma exists.

I think there are preset situations everyday that will occur no matter what, and depending on how you handle the situation, is when karma comes into play. if you react well and do good things there, you get good karma, Which also opens up other good situations, where you can improve on it.

Likewise, there are bad choices, which open up more bad situations.

The bad situations have more bad choices to be made, while the good situations are 50/50, which is why there is always a chance of something to ruin your day, and is also why you can't just get out of a bad day.

Then again, I also feel that at the end of the day, the karma you made throughout the day goes into an account, which you can use in order to start out better the next day.

Thats why I feel that after a few bad days, you feel much much better and everything works out.

Then again, it could be a chameleon, which comes and goes.

[Jacob]

Apologies on not getting back sooner. Not only has life caught up with me, but I also forgot to bookmark this. Mostly looking into anything related to karma (with pointers on where my concerns lie), on how people view/use it and how it's described in any written texts. I know I'm not very helpful in that regard, but I think we'll get somewhere eventually. Onward...

Sept 17, 2011 9:11:15 GMT -5 Nimras said:

If you're a jerk, people are going to be less willing to help you out when you need help. If you're nice, people will like you more and be more willing to go out of their own way to help you. Not cosmic force, but simply social networking or cause and effect.

This is what I held onto with my previous belief in what Karma was, and is the logical jump if I ever went back, though I've since scrapped it. I've seen people be horrid to others, only to see those others continue to associate with them. For whatever psychological or obligative reason they stick around, the negative behavior doesn't push them away. As it was in The Matrix, Choice is a factor in this, and it disregards the system (or principle of Karma).

I'd like to say it's as simple as being a good and hard working person, but as it's shown in my case, it's proved wrong. Mind you, is it a problem that I think Karma should be on my side? A problem that everyone has? One of the beefs I have with the use of Karma is that I believe everyone sees that is should be in line with them and what they are doing. Worse, that people feel they are deserving of certain behavior if they act a certain way. Mind you, it's on the whim of another of what you get, even if you do technically deserve good or ill. Am I wrong in thinking this way?

Sept 17, 2011 20:18:52 GMT -5 Stephanie (swordlilly) said:

I think Sock is saying that if you believe too deeply in karma, you might end up being uncaring/judgmental. Like when you see someone with cancer, you might think: "She must have eaten unhealthily," or when you see a young person struggling with mental illness: "His parents must have raised him improperly." People aren't always responsible for the bad things that happen to them.

Which leads me to another point - If you think that some cosmic balance-scale will put everything in order, then you might become more morally passive. Like when you see someone begging on the street: "If he works hard, he'll get out of this situation eventually." Or when you see someone getting bullied: "That bully will suffer for his actions eventually. And that victim will be compensated eventually." You'd be less likely to lend a helping hand.

This. I believe you've hit it on the nose. Belief in Karma has the capacity to deter empathy, responsibility and being proactive. Too many times I've caught myself in patterns of thought which lead me away from going the extra mile and caring about something that should bother me. Instead, I would shift blame/responsibility by thinking the world would take care of it for me. I've since found this to be destructive, and try my best to be the proactive in a world of otherwise uncaring people. I'm failing, but I at least have the idea?

More thoughts in my head right now, but a little tired. This should be enough for the now. And I'm making sure to Bookmark this thread this time. ;D