|
|
Post by Killix on Aug 15, 2011 15:34:20 GMT -5
I was bullied at school all of the time, and it never helped me. :/
|
|
|
|
Post by Gelquie on Aug 15, 2011 15:40:01 GMT -5
Hmm, don't get me wrong, I'm all against bullying and I do anything to stop it when I see it if I can. However, I do see the merit of situations adding to a person's character. No one can really stop bullying; even with the most sound and solid bully program, things are going to slip through the cracks. I do know everyone is different; some are tougher than others. To me, how things are acted upon can determine how a person grows from that. If nothing happens to stop the bullying, then it's left entirely up to the person, and how it affects them widely varies by personality. If something does happen and there's intervention, then there's a better chance that the victim will develop more positively from the experience.
I'm kind of in-between on how effective schools are at quelling bullying though, or even workplaces. Taking a personal anecdote, I was bullied in my middle school years. I was too weak to handle it myself, so I tried to bring the issue to the school officials, the bus driver, etc etc. I filed a lot of reports. And nothing happened. That felt so much worse. I even heard rumors of some of the officials laughing at me behind my back. So there I was, a 7th grader, who felt like she had no one on her side, and I was forced to take new branches in my personality to deal with it. Some were better than others, really; I was still immature at the time. The situation could've been handled a lot better. But it wasn't. Either they just didn't care or it was something that slipped through the (in my opinion, big) cracks.
Unfortunately, places ineffective in bullying are still going to exist. Probably even if a law was passed. Even in schools, there's only so many teachers around to handle all the cases, especially given each teacher's effectiveness of handling the issue. It's too big a job. I think probably the best way would be to teach anti-bullying techniques, in case they're trapped in a place like that. Of course, that's still easier said than done, and public service announcements only go so far (and have the opposite reaction for some people). But something to strengthen the person in question in case something can't or won't be handled.
As for the bullying side, some of them could just be having other problems, sure. But that doesn't excuse the fact that they're acting like bullies. And yes, I have had occasions where I have acted like a bully. I'm not proud of them. I would've fully deserved a talking down for those, or even a punishment, and I would've understood getting one. I wouldn't expect any sort of exception because of whatever problems were in my life at the moment. Talking to them may help the situation, sure, I agree. But unless they're really sorry and it obviously shows, I'm not very soft on them; they have to be shown that they're not being nice.
Mind, I know there are degrees of bullying. I'm not talking minor ones. There are minor issues that just help a kid grow and learn a lesson and aren't really that big. My post here was mainly dealing with bullying big enough for psychological damage. That's when it gets really troublesome and when something needs to be done.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2011 15:54:42 GMT -5
As for the bullying side, some of them could just be having other problems, sure. But that doesn't excuse the fact that they're acting like bullies. And yes, I have had occasions where I have acted like a bully. I'm not proud of them. I would've fully deserved a talking down for those, or even a punishment, and I would've understood getting one. I wouldn't expect any sort of exception because of whatever problems were in my life at the moment. Talking to them may help the situation, sure, I agree. But unless they're really sorry and it obviously shows, I'm not very soft on them; they have to be shown that they're not being nice. Yes, but as I said before, what if the cause isn't insecurity? What if it's something very serious, like abusive parents/guardians or receiving life threats/similar from another bully? If someone was being mistreated at home or threatened into bullying, yes, I would tell them that they weren't being nice, but I would also cut them a little more slack, since someone like that is most likely traumatized and has no other way to deal with it that they know of. They need help, not punishment. |
|
|
|
Post by Terra on Aug 15, 2011 16:15:48 GMT -5
All I can say is this: "meanness" is not something that, in my opinion, can or should be somehow banned from school/work/life. It's a pretty natural part of social interaction, and there are occasions that call for it. I don't even know what somebody would grow up like if they'd never heard a mean word in their life! However, anything approaching assault, property damage, racial slurs or physical abuse is obviously not okay in a school setting. While I agree with you about the property damage, racial slurs and physical abuse thing, I don't think there's any occasion where the only way to get out of it is by being nasty. For instance, if you're caught in a heated debate, there's a perfectly nice way to state your opinion. For example, you could say "Personally, I think that such-and-such should/shouldn't be so because blah blah blah", and it's a much nicer way of saying it than "This is the way it should be and anyone who says otherwise is stupid/delusional/satanic". This is kind of an extreme example, but what if someone is attacking you? If someone just hit me, I wouldn't have any problem with hitting back to get out of the situation. If someone's pointing a gun at me...I'd injure that person any way I could to stop him/her from shooting me. I think it's too limiting to say that there's never a situation in which you have to do something that's "nasty". Also, there are some situations in which standing up for yourself is more important than being polite. If someone is being consistently rude and offensive toward you, and the polite approach isn't working, I think a few strong words would be necessary. I generally agree with the people who have said that bullying isn't really okay, though, no matter how character-building it may sometimes be. People who triumph over adversity may become stronger, but that doesn't mean that people have the right to bully and abuse other people. Honestly, I think that allowing people to be bullies with the justification that it's "character-building" would be disastrous. What kind of lesson would that be to the bullies to teach them that it's okay to go around hurting people? As a homeschooler, I don't have a ton of familiarity with the effectiveness of various bullying-prevention strategies in schools (though for the few years that I did go to school, I never felt like I had much support on that front). I think there are ways of decreasing bullying, but not of preventing it completely. In situations where the bully is being mean due to personal issues, it's important to address that if possible, but it's also important to protect the victim (I'd say more important, generally). *shrug* I can see how it's difficult sometimes, though. Teachers can only do so much. |
|
|
|
Post by Gelquie on Aug 15, 2011 16:22:43 GMT -5
As for the bullying side, some of them could just be having other problems, sure. But that doesn't excuse the fact that they're acting like bullies. And yes, I have had occasions where I have acted like a bully. I'm not proud of them. I would've fully deserved a talking down for those, or even a punishment, and I would've understood getting one. I wouldn't expect any sort of exception because of whatever problems were in my life at the moment. Talking to them may help the situation, sure, I agree. But unless they're really sorry and it obviously shows, I'm not very soft on them; they have to be shown that they're not being nice. Yes, but as I said before, what if the cause isn't insecurity? What if it's something very serious, like abusive parents/guardians or receiving life threats/similar from another bully? If someone was being mistreated at home or threatened into bullying, yes, I would tell them that they weren't being nice, but I would also cut them a little more slack, since someone like that is most likely traumatized and has no other way to deal with it that they know of. They need help, not punishment. Point. But there's only so many ways for the officials to know that, school or otherwise. If the situation were that dire, then I agree that they should be talked to. That would require more work on their part to investigate, though. Which probably should happen, but the question is whether or not it happens in practice. I'm still worried that cutting them some slack would encourage them. There still has to be more than "hey, you're not being nice" in order for the message to sink in. Habits are hard to break, and that goes for bullying habits too. And on a side-note, it might seem insulting to the victim that the bully is just getting a wrist-slap for what they did. But okay, if I were the person in charge of talking to them, maybe I'll cut them a little slack, but that doesn't change their actions on others and how that has affected things. Can't just leave that alone with nice words. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2011 16:53:35 GMT -5
While I agree with you about the property damage, racial slurs and physical abuse thing, I don't think there's any occasion where the only way to get out of it is by being nasty. For instance, if you're caught in a heated debate, there's a perfectly nice way to state your opinion. For example, you could say "Personally, I think that such-and-such should/shouldn't be so because blah blah blah", and it's a much nicer way of saying it than "This is the way it should be and anyone who says otherwise is stupid/delusional/satanic". This is kind of an extreme example, but what if someone is attacking you? If someone just hit me, I wouldn't have any problem with hitting back to get out of the situation. If someone's pointing a gun at me...I'd injure that person any way I could to stop him/her from shooting me. I think it's too limiting to say that there's never a situation in which you have to do something that's "nasty". Also, there are some situations in which standing up for yourself is more important than being polite. If someone is being consistently rude and offensive toward you, and the polite approach isn't working, I think a few strong words would be necessary. Well, if it went that far, of course I would do anything to protect the people I care about (and myself, too, but family and friends first). Though if I did end up having to kill or seriously hurt someone in self-defense or defense of those I love, I would be utterly broken by it. I don't know if I could go through the rest of life knowing I'd done something like that. I echo what Professor Slughorn (from Harry Potter) said about killing ripping the soul apart. I think that's exactly how I would feel. Fortunately, I've gone through 17 years of life without absolutely having to engage in any kind of physical combat, so I don't think that's ever gonna happen. |
|
|
|
Post by Dju on Aug 15, 2011 17:19:13 GMT -5
Hmm, don't get me wrong, I'm all against bullying and I do anything to stop it when I see it if I can. However, I do see the merit of situations adding to a person's character. No one can really stop bullying; even with the most sound and solid bully program, things are going to slip through the cracks. I totally agree with you, I also warned the officials of my school and they never moved one single finger to help. >_> The only time I saw they take position was when the school's owner (It's private, most schools are private here, so it has an owner XD) son accused tons of my friends of bullying, and the worst part was that they didn't even knew him.  I mean, seriously? While a bunch of kids were being hit by volleyballs and having their heads flushed in the toilet, this kid simply feels as if we're looking at him differently and makes a scandal. Bullying it's a complicate thing... |
|
|
|
Post by Joker on Aug 15, 2011 20:19:40 GMT -5
All I can say is this: "meanness" is not something that, in my opinion, can or should be somehow banned from school/work/life. It's a pretty natural part of social interaction, and there are occasions that call for it. I don't even know what somebody would grow up like if they'd never heard a mean word in their life! However, anything approaching assault, property damage, racial slurs or physical abuse is obviously not okay in a school setting. While I agree with you about the property damage, racial slurs and physical abuse thing, I don't think there's any occasion where the only way to get out of it is by being nasty. For instance, if you're caught in a heated debate, there's a perfectly nice way to state your opinion. For example, you could say "Personally, I think that such-and-such should/shouldn't be so because blah blah blah", and it's a much nicer way of saying it than "This is the way it should be and anyone who says otherwise is stupid/delusional/satanic". Well, maybe I'm just a nasty person, but I have to say life would be kind of flavorless without the occasional meanness. And besides, if someone is obnoxious enough, it gives me a lot of personal satisfaction to be outright rude. xD More importantly, the world can be a harsh place - you have to prepare for that at least a little in childhood or you'd be eaten alive. Although, just to clarify, I'm still not saying that gangs of kids should be able to corner little five-year-olds at school and beat them up! |
|
|
|
Post by Zieloh on Aug 17, 2011 4:29:08 GMT -5
Jeez, looking at all these replies makes mine look so puny. @_@
I just kinda think that if you never get bullied, you won't have full empathy for other kids that get bullied.. In other words, you won't always know how other kids feel. Maybe its just me, but I like experiencing just about everything, even the bad stuff. The more you know, the more you can empathize.
But of course, like I said earlier, there are huge limits as to what people can take. Some people have no tolerance for it, and it can end up seriously hurting them in the end, even if it was nothing intended to be serious. Maybe the person you just threatened to run over had a traumatic accident in the past that followed the death of a loved one. Everyone has their reasons, and no one has the right to be picked on.
The thing that irks me the most is when people that bully have the audacity to say "Well I have freedom of speech."
Kids that bully are either too young to know better (as what Saeryena said) or have had problems in their life. That, or they think it makes them more popular. The scary thing is, nowadays, it actually does.
People that bully are thought of as "powerful" in a sense to other people... and somehow they get a kick out of seeing some kid get his guts punched out or being completely degraded in front of a crowd. It's just absolutely terrible how some people actually enjoy this, and how rare it is for someone to actually buck up and help the victim. That's why I ever-so-much despise those commercials they do about bullying and how unrealistic they make them.
My point: Bullying and harassing is definitely bad, even if it wasn't intended to be serious. It can in the end, for some people, build a little character and wisdom and empathy for others, but definitely not for all. Unfortunately... no one has a choice. People that can't tolerate it as opposed to ones who can will end up getting bullied anyway.. and at the time of being bullied myself, I didn't happen to be one of those people that could tolerate it. :/
|
|
Abigail
Full-Timeser
owo
Under construction!
Posts: 707
|
Post by Abigail on Aug 17, 2011 9:45:02 GMT -5
When I was really little (I'm talking late preschool to early Kindergarten), I was bullied by my neighbors. Each time they'd come apologize and ask if we could still be friends. I fell for it, being the little girl I was, not knowing any better.
The bullying stopped when I got older, after two of them moved and one of them left our school. The one left started bullying my friends, which is something I don't recommend you try to do unless you want a very angry Echo on your case.
I agree with Zieloh that not everyone gets something good out of bullying. I was unfortunately one of those people who was bullied and left with nothing but self-worth issues and the unhealthy want for revenge (believe it or not).
|
|
|
|
Post by Pacmanite on Aug 18, 2011 8:11:58 GMT -5
But if a school can't eradicate bullying, that doesn't mean they shouldn't at least try!
Even where there's the best police force, you can say there will still be murderers. But that doesn't mean the state doesn't have an obligation to protect its citizens.
I feel that the school has an obligation to protect its students from each other. The damage that can be done to students as a result of bullying is very real, and very damaging. And from personal experience (or lack thereof) I don't think that bullying is necessarily an inevitable aspect of school life.
So the anti-bullying commercials are lame and unrealistic? Fair enough. That doesn't mean that a non-lame and more realistic video couldn't do a better job.
So the authorities turned a blind eye to bullying? That's terrible. But it doesn't mean that the authorities are actually literally unable to exercise their power. They chose not to take the situation seriously, which is their fault. But, under a better culture of empathy with bullied students and awareness of bullies, a teacher can take it into their power to lecture and/or punish the offenders. At the very least, some form of punishment establishes to the bully (and to the bullied) that bullying is not right and it has consequences.
If the schools are doing a bad job at it, that doesn't mean they shouldn't try harder.
As for the "character building" effect of bullying... I feel that that can not be our excuse for tolerating bullying. Do we tolerate poor hygeine practices because in some cases it can boost peoples' immunities? No, because the risk of serious harm outweighs the possible positive effects of it. Bullying is wrong and we don't need to have it in our schools. I don't need to be dehumanised in order to grow up like a real human being.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nimras on Aug 18, 2011 10:13:30 GMT -5
Physical bullying is easy to spot, and should be fairly easy for schools to spot and at least try to do something about. Often the bullies who bully physically come from homes where physical action is more acceptable (spanking, ect.) but that doesn't mean that they're abused themselves. It just means that they come from a place where more touching, grabbing, and "roughhouse" is acceptable, therefore it occurs to them as being a way to interact with other people to get what they want. One would think that this would be obvious and easy for a school to stop, but that's not always the case. Some schools simply banned touching in any way, shape, or form.Psychological bullying, like psychological abuse, is much harder to spot and even harder to do something about. For the most part, psychological abuse is harder because it's emotional. "People who think like you do are stupid, therefore you have to think just like me." Often the bully does it in such a way that it's almost impossible for the victim to articulate what is wrong, such as always insisting that everyone only plays the games they want, and are only allowed to say nice things to them, and to be their friend you have to agree with everything they say. They blackmail love and friendship as a way to stay in control. It's easy to say, "just don't be friends with them" but often the bully has already worn down their "friend" to the point that the friend is convinced that they're so worthless no on *else* would be friends with them, and how is a school (or even a parent) supposed to put a stop to that?  |
|
|
|
Post by Zieloh on Aug 18, 2011 22:00:10 GMT -5
I just wanted to input that my past middle school has actually had that no touching rule. :/ Not even hugs! Or anything PDA! It was absolutely awful. Going as far as no touching at all is a little bit overdoing it... teachers should be able to realize the difference between friendly touching and bad touching. Maybe things like public kissing too since apparently that's a felony in a middle school environment where everyone's already talking about sex and fights.
|
|
|
|
Post by Moni on Aug 18, 2011 23:02:05 GMT -5
Bullying should definitely be punished. If someone complains about it, investigate it, and give them a serious punishment. Identify and eliminate target.
Okay, before I speak--err, type--let's get this all clear that different people are, uh, different, that means in how they deal with things too. AKA, something I'd cry over isn't something you'd cry over, or something I'd shrug off might be something someone else might commit suicide over. It's an accepted fact that facing tough situations in life helps you with life experiences and all that, but it's also true that that bullying does cause some issues. While for some people, bullying might make them stronger, for others it's the end of the world.
Now, my stance is that the victim receives more harm than good out of bullying, but let's ignore that for a second.
Let's focus on the bully him/her self. Now, suppose a bully gets away with bulling in their elementary (where it's more likely to make a mark, by the way; one out of every four elementary school bullies is going to become a violent criminal, according to a statistic, but even if you don't trust 'em, well . . . it's that age where you're the most impressionable) and middle school years. No one punishes them. At all. Or tells them that what they are doing are wrong. If there's no intervention, guess what happens to them as adults? Do they completely forget their behavior?
That is a big fat NO. For a lot of their lives, these bullies will get used to the fact that they can have it their way. Those bullies grow up to be the irresponsible scum of society, thinking they can have it their way all the time with a few mean words. Maybe a take a few souls while they're at it. Y'know.
Now, assuming the bully has a different reason, like abusive parents or something, the only way people will know is that if they take the bully aside. That won't happen if people turn a blind eye.
Now, let's make it very clear that I don't count children adjusting their social skills as bullying. Something like "ewwwww you have cooties!" or something, while it may be not the ideal thing to say, is something all children grow out of. Serious bullying, here.
|
|
Cow breaking his hiatus
Guest
|
Post by Cow breaking his hiatus on Aug 23, 2011 11:44:43 GMT -5
Re: "Bullying can sometimes be a good thing" - Here's a question for y'all: If bullying didn't exist in schools at all, do you think it would be a good idea to introduce it?
|
|
I mean, seriously? While a bunch of kids were being hit by volleyballs and having their heads flushed in the toilet, this kid simply feels as if we're looking at him differently and makes a scandal. Bullying it's a complicate thing...
