Brushes and textures are cheating?

[Dju]

Okay so...

There is this girl at my class who is an amazing artist, she draws anime with ink, pencil, and when she colors things it looks digital, but it's all hand made. She is somewhat egocentric, and makes a lot of insinuations that she is better than me because I make digital art instead.

She thinks that using photoshop brushes and textures is not being a real artists, I can't help but feel offended. But since she told me that I always hesitate on using brushes and textures...I feel guilty. And worse, I feel even MORE guilty for considering what she says.

I dunno...I really wanted to know how you guys feel about textures and downloaded brushes, if it's 'cheating' or simply using a technique just like in painting in the old style.

[Deleted]

I think that they can both be considered art, and actually, computers have opened doorways for many people who dream of being artists, since some people are hopeless with a pencil and yet can do digital art amazingly well (and vice versa).

Dju, I think this girl is just being mean, and she might be a little jealous as well. It doesn't matter what kind of art a person does, they have every right to be proud of it and call it art.

[Dju]

Thanks Sae! :') I don't think she's jealous because...trust me, someone like her can't be jealous. >.< She's waaay too confident.

[Deleted]

It's just her feeding her ego. Lots of people like to go "only a TRUE _______ would do this" when they want to exclude others and feel "special".

Though I prefer traditional media--they're easier for me to get into--when I do use Photoshop, I like using brushes that imitate real, physical media, like pastels and pencils. I found this fantastic pencil brush a while ago and it's made sketching in Photoshop feel a lot more natural. =D Really, drawing is drawing is drawing.

[PFA]

Jul 16, 2011 13:53:49 GMT -5 Dju said:

Thanks Sae! :') I don't think she's jealous because...trust me, someone like her can't be jealous. >.< She's waaay too confident.

Actually, according to my psychology-studying dad, putting other people down is actually a form of insecurity. Something about having to put other people down in an attempt to make yourself look better. Though the people who do it probably wouldn't look at it that way.

That aside, I wouldn't worry about it. I say use whatever art tools you feel comfortable using.

[Deleted]

There was a recent discussion on dA made by a staff member, about what and what isn't art, using a photo of a wall covered in used chewing gum.

I'll reply to you here as I did there:

Anything that can be created, no matter the tools, can be considered art. The tools are just... tools. It's what they create that matters.
Some people sell paintings that only took them a few splashes of paint, for thousands of dollars, and that is considered high art.

So do not worry yourself, Dju.
YOU be the mature one and care not for what she thinks. Like PFA said: If she has a desire to make herself look better than you, she is covering up for insecurities. It may not be the insecurity of her own art, but it could be something else. Who knows. Maybe she has a mother or father who do not appreciate anything she does, so she feels that she must put others down to make herself feel good about herself. One can only guess.

But do not doubt that what you do is art. Knowing how to use the tools is a part of the process. So thumbs up to you, my friend =)

[Komori]

ROFL. Only new artists ever use the phrase that such-and-such technique is "cheating." There's no cheating in art. Heck, if Duchamp can turn a urinal on its side and have me learn about it in my college art history class, then all's fair in art.

If you're a professional artist, you know that it's all about getting the best result in the most time-efficient way. If one process takes 10 hours, and another takes 1 hour, and they produce the same results, then you obviously should choose the quicker process. Faster turnaround means more revinue, and even if you don't sell any art, it still means you can produce more art. It doesn't make you more "noble" by taking the more traditional path, or by not using the best tools for the job.

Digital art isn't cheating. Photoshop brushes and textures aren't cheating. Using reference photos isn't cheating. All these tools are used by professional artists infinitely more talented than your classmate. XD



And, by the way, I'm not even saying digital art is always superior in speed/efficiency than traditional art. There are some techniques not easily replicated digitally, and of course there's always the tangible quality of dried paint on a canvas. It's all about what result you want, and what does it quickest and best.

[Dju]

That's really comforting, even thought it's a debate! I don't feel guilty by using paint brushes any more, nor textures..I tell myself that a object can become art in right hands, you guys are amazing!

[Pacmanite]

I never got why there's such a pervasive notion that digital art - really anything made in photoshop, or especially in any 3D rendering program - is somehow drawn by the computer and not by the human user. It's like when people used to say that photographers are not artists because they make images with the help of a "machine". (And as if our computers had an imagination.)

A tool is a tool. Is it cheating to use a ruler to draw a straight line? Is it cheating to smudge your pencil shading with your finger to make the gradient look smooth? Granted, using these techniques doesn't always produce the result that you really want. (Sometimes the finger-smudged pencil shading looks tacky, IMO). And sometimes when you use digital effects like brushes and textures, it ends up looking not the way you intended, or just icky and fake. But as an artist you learn how to use your tools properly, and once you've gotten the hang of it, these techniques must surely enrich your art-making ability, rather than detract from it.

[Cow-winkle]

I have to vehemently disagree with everything that's been said: In fact, I believe that even using a pre-manufactured pencil is cheating. If you're not cutting down your own cedar tree, mixing your own graphite, and attaching a ferrule and eraser you made of your own flesh and blood, then you have no right to call yourself a real artist.

Incidentally, I also think writers are cheating if they use pre-existing words to write their stories. I think I speak for everyone when I say I'm tired of words like "the" and "or" and "because" -- so cliché!

(I'm kidding, please don't kill me!)

[Huntress]

Jul 16, 2011 16:14:14 GMT -5 Komori said:

ROFL. Only new artists ever use the phrase that such-and-such technique is "cheating." There's no cheating in art. Heck, if Duchamp can turn a urinal on its side and have me learn about it in my college art history class, then all's fair in art.

I think Duchamp singlehandledly muddled every single line that there ever was between art and everything else xD (Although lots of people still don't consider all the modernist performances art, and chances are that for every true-blue artist who has a Message in their modern art, there is a cheap hack who wants to cash in on the shock-and-awe factor. But that comes down to the intent of the artist.)

It's probably a matter of all new media, really. For most of the history, art took a whole lot of effort. Then things got easier. And then the art community split into those who embraced the ends-justify-the-means side and those who embraced the no-pain-no-gain side. It's sort of like those folks who think that giving birth to a baby should be completely natural, without any pain medication whatsoever, because that's how it worked for hundreds and thousands of years. In the end, it works for some and doesn't for others but I don't believe anyone has the right to force what they think is the one and only right way on other people.

[Crystal]

Haha, that reminds me of this hilarious debate between watercolour societies (ongoing until today!) upon whether or not using white paint is cheating. One side says that true watercolour artists should only lay down washes and paint, and the other disagrees.

It's true that doing watercolours without using white paint to correct errors requires a higher degree of technical skill, and it's really impressive if you can, but using white paint on watercolours is also a gorgeous technique that can bring out different designs and things. So the whole debate is really a little pointless.



Personally, I'm with Komori. Professional art is making the most beautiful result in the most time-efficient way. Or if you're a renowned artist, it might be making the most beautiful result in whatever way will produce the most beautiful result. And it doesn't really change the basics.

The essentials of art (or at least what most people consider art, urinals aside ) are colour; anatomy; perspective; proportion; imagination and dedication. And a few others. Or some of the above, because I've seen some truly lovely abstract art. If you have the basics, you can draw well in many mediums. I'm certainly not saying that a professional oil painter can digitally paint as well as a professional concept artist, but because he has such a strong foundation, it would be much easier for him to quickly pick up the medium of digital art than say, a kid who's never tried before in his life. And although most people find a favourite and stick with it, switching between mediums and genres of art also gives you a great deal of insight into art, as a whole.

It may be true that your friend's way requires a great deal of technical skill. You probably couldn't do it. However, your way also requires a great deal of skill, and she also probably couldn't do it... which is why your artwork is so different. =D And special.



Although I must say, in your friend's behalf, that a lot of people do tend to feel like "their way" of doing things is superior, especially if they're good at what they do. As a programmer, for instance, I think that people who use Visual Basic (a drag-and-drop GUI sort of programming for beginners) aren't as talented as people who hack out their code in C... using vi. (Like me! ;D) Us programmers are a bit strange about it, though, because we actually do like gathering together and talking impolitely about it, feeling superior in our little nerdy packs.

Anyway, it's not polite, and it's not all that mature either, but it's not uncommon. People do like to compare, contrast, and feel superior... it just sort of happens. Maybe she'll grow out of it.

[Nimras]

Jul 17, 2011 9:57:35 GMT -5 Cow-winkle said:

I have to vehemently disagree with everything that's been said: In fact, I believe that even using a pre-manufactured pencil is cheating. If you're not cutting down your own cedar tree, mixing your own graphite, and attaching a ferrule and eraser you made of your own flesh and blood, then you have no right to call yourself a real artist.

Incidentally, I also think writers are cheating if they use pre-existing words to write their stories. I think I speak for everyone when I say I'm tired of words like "the" and "or" and "because" -- so cliché!

(I'm kidding, please don't kill me!)

I must agree with Mr. Cow on this one.

Also, if you're not producing the light photons yourself to provide the light while you produce your masterpiece, and are instead stealing them from the sun, than you're not really really an artist either. Seriously, either make art in the dark, or produce your own life. The sun is for posers.

(In other words, not being an artist, Nimmy had nothing to add, but wanted to show her general agreement.)

[random desert supporter]

Jul 18, 2011 18:54:08 GMT -5 Crystal said:

As a programmer, for instance, I think that people who use Visual Basic (a drag-and-drop GUI sort of programming for beginners) aren't as talented as people who hack out their code in C... using vi. (Like me! ;D)

Using butterflies to program would be pretty cool, if it worked. In a way related to art, using lousy tools is more impressive. I've seen videos of people making impressive pictures with MS Paint. I think a copy of the Mona Lisa was one of them.

But when you just look at the end product, no one cares how it was made. Also, it is wasteful to not take advantage of the shortcuts you have. If it does what you want, use it. Like using the light from the sun.

[Crystal]

Jul 18, 2011 22:02:55 GMT -5 random desert supporter said:

Jul 18, 2011 18:54:08 GMT -5 Crystal said:

As a programmer, for instance, I think that people who use Visual Basic (a drag-and-drop GUI sort of programming for beginners) aren't as talented as people who hack out their code in C... using vi. (Like me! ;D)

Using butterflies to program would be pretty cool, if it worked. In a way related to art, using lousy tools is more impressive. I've seen videos of people making impressive pictures with MS Paint. I think a copy of the Mona Lisa was one of them.

Good old XKCD. Cracks me up every time. xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDd Like I said... we love our little nerdy packs.