Christian Support Club

[Coaster]

Prayer is unfortunately frequently thrown about as an excuse for a pious "no but I don't want to make you feel bad" (a step up from "we should have lunch sometime") and pious gossip ("Please pray for Steve, because did you hear he did such and such?"), so I'm not all that surprised about the irony.

Breakingchains pretty much said the main point that I would have, and (Bible thump incoming) Paul puts the role of tongues/prophecy/rolling on the floor nicely in 1 Corinthians 14.

Fortunately, the only problem I've seen with its use in prayer groups is that it can tend toward Christians following the signs (because weird experiences are supposed to be spiritual?) instead of signs following the Christians.

I have been in settings where it was overemphasized and really only caused chaos, but in others, it was the catalyst for someone being delivered from an addiction, or being saved outright. Still, while speaking in tongues is primarily described as a one-on-one-with-God thing unless there's someone to interpret, it also has its place in public (i.e. Pentecost in Acts).

Personally, I've found prophecy a lot more encouraging and rewarding, especially when it comes from someone with that gift, because you can tell they're speaking words to you such that there's no way they could have pinpointed exactly what you needed to hear just by them thinking really hard. Especially so when several people are thinking of the same thing.

Still, anything can go out of hand. Someone I know well was very turned off of the Holy Spirit moving when he went to a camp and was locked in a closet by the co-ordinators until he came out speaking in tongues. _{(I think he went with the old standby of "shoudabotahondabutibotakia"; say it really slow and you'll get it.)}

Ultimately, you REALLY need to be sure that the group is spiritually mature and actively seeking God in order for things like tongues and prophecy to be valid and helpful.

[Komori]

Mm, my sister is totally into going to the church group meetings where they speak in tongues and prophecy, but the whole idea just sort of makes me feel uncomfortable. It's probably just because I reallyyyy dislike touchy-feely-ness or touching or being up in somebody's biznazz who doesn't really want it. .... I'm also a very private person, so there's that. XD

And sometimes I feel like people -think- they're prophecying (prophesizing? prophet...ing) when they're just sort of saying things that they expected would happen. Mostly my sister, who seemed to insist every time I had an interview or animation test or sent an application that that was "the job God had planned for me." Including the three times I got close to being hired by Neopets.

Turns out the job I got (and totally love) came months after I stopped telling any of them about my job hunt (and honestly months after I'd given up praying to God to "show me" where I was supposed to be). Can't say I've believed much in it since.

[Coaster]

I'm just now finding it a bit more puzzling, the (seemingly) common practice where when we (seldom) pray, we don't listen for a response, or when we do, we just ignore it if it's something we don't expect or want to hear or assume it's just our head distracting us, and then suppose that God doesn't speak anymore or only wants to speak to super-spiritual people.

[♥ Azzie]

Hi guys, can I make a prayer request? My mom's boyfriend had a stroke around two this morning and he's still in the hospital. We've got a prayer chain going but I figured any extra support would help.
Thank you guys. I love you all.

[Coaster]

♥ Azzie: I'm a little late to this (still, consider him prayed for), but how's he doing?


Incidentally, them Bible flicks. Anyone seen Noah/Heaven Is For Real/God's Not Dead?

I haven't heard much good about the former (and much the opposite), but I just got back from the latter, and
despite the usual flaws in many such movies

SPOILER: Click to show

(such as the utterly polarized moral separation of believers (or obvious conversion) and unbelievers (who all have some strong personal or cultural resistance to God), somewhat pithy arguments, and frequent instances of bad acting (most noticeable to me when the guy was fighting with his girlfriend and both were relatively calm and perfectly articulate and used big words flawlessly))

I thought it was a good watch and well-spent. Definitely an emphasis on making one's faith public, which is always good to see in a mainstream cinema.

I may edit this later with more thoughts. >_>

[Kozma]

I feel that it might be good to revive this thread so I'm going to try and do so. It seems like everyone's going through some trying times currently, myself included, and I think it would be most beneficial if we could come together and offer support to one another. It's hard to watch anyone face their trials alone; it can be even harder to bear your own by yourself, so I would like to get this old thread started up again. Hopefully we all can benefit from this.

It's been a bit of a tough week for me with my doubts and anxieties and I could use some support. The past few days have left me quite exhausted and feeling ready to give up on my job and on my faith. I've been so frustrated having to deal with life and not finding any satisfactory solution to my problems. I know I need to remain strong and endure the race set before me but how am I to endure it when hope cannot be found?

To put it simply, I'm struggling with the assurance of my salvation. This might come as a surprise to some of you; how could the incredibly sweet and kind Kozma have doubts about being saved? Well, guess what? I've been facing these kinds of doubts for many, many years and they can be quite convincing. I'm not perfect; I'm a sinner and I struggle with a variety of sins from anger and selfishness to envy and worldliness. My life has been one big mess and I can only blame it on my poor choices. There is still one big choice I can make; I can choose to follow Jesus. I do believe I am saved but I have a lot of doubts as to whether this is true or not. Do I truly believe in Jesus or am I just fooling myself?

This has been an ongoing thing for me. I have family that assures me that I am saved and that it is evidenced by my fruit but the doubts are always with me. I could use some support; going on with these doubts is so unbearable. There is probably a lot more that needs to be said but I don't think a revival post should be a large textwall.

I guess this is all that I'll say for right now. I know I should follow my own advice but I just want everyone to remain strong in the face of the troubles that lie ahead. Things will be better someday but until then we'll need to support each other. I can only hope that things will be better for all of us.

[Reiqua]

Kozma - can I just say that I love, love, love the decision to revive this thread! I didn't even know it was a thing, but I'm glad that it is (:


I wonder though if it would be appropriate to enlist the help of an admod to move this thread to the Banter Board (which I understand is members only?). My reasoning being that people might sometimes want to share semi-personal things here, which we might not want the whole world to be able to stumble across. I also figure this thread is quite likely to be equal parts rants and hugs, so maybe it does have a place on the Banter Board?
Perfectly happy if others want to disagree on that suggestion, though


As to what you were saying Kozma: you're so right, that's so tough. <3
I think it's really important for us as Christians to support one another in the face of uncertainty. 1 Peter 5:8 says:

Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

And I think that's so true. Satan himself can plant doubts in our mind and try to take us away from our faith, but the very next verse tells us to resist him and stand together in that:

... because you know that your brothers and sisters throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings.

So yeah, let's do this thing together!!


Kozma, you said:

I've been facing these kinds of doubts for many, many years and they can be quite convincing.

I think Satan can be so convincing in telling us we're not good enough for God. But in the end, the truth is that God is more powerful than Satan, and He will never let go of us. I'm thinking of John chapter 10 which we looked at on Monday night in Bible study. It says: 

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.

I guess it's just reminding us that no matter what Satan does (or what we do even!) God is greater. He wants to hold onto us, and nothing we do, or nothing anyone does is going to stop Him from doing that!


I should also mention the end of that section in 1 Peter that I was talking about. Right after Peter tells us to resist Satan and support one another in our faith, he then says:

And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.

Basically it's the same thing over again - God's the one who keeps us strong in our faith until the last day.


I hope that's encouraging to you, Kozma, and I want you to know that I'm always ready to listen. Even if it's the same concern over and over, day in and day out, I'll happily listen and pray <3
And I guess the short version of my post if you take out all the quotes and whatnot is just this:
Don't give up on God, because He'll never, ever give up on you. And coming from God, the most powerful being in the universe, that means something!!

[Kozma]

Reiqua - I was hoping you'd be the one to respond and I'm so glad you did! Thank you! ^^ It makes me feel a whole lot better having your support.

Usually, when my doubts and anxieties get real bad I turn to my dad for Biblical advice. A lot of what you said reflects what he's been telling me for years. Satan desires to take us away from our faith, God is more powerful than Satan and will not let us go as stated in John 10, God is the one who strengthens us in our faith. It's reassuring to hear all this again.

So, while I understand that God loves me and that He wants 'none to perish,' the thing that's currently getting to me is this belief that I could be rejecting Jesus in my heart, therefore God will reject me on the Day of Redemption. These anxieties are bolstered by my various inabilities and failings in my walk with God. For some reason, I'm unable to convince myself that I'm still a work in progress; I'm still in the flesh and fallible. I keep thinking that if I am accepting Christ, sin would no longer be an issue for me. But I am faced with many struggles and I am unable to be perfect so my anxieties often convince me that I am not saved.

There is a whole lot I could write about my anxieties; probably a novel's worth. I'm not sure how much I want to post on this thread, though and I'm wondering if we should start up a PM conversation. That's is if you'd like to. I appreciate the support and I hope I won't burden you too much with my problems.

[Reiqua]

Awh, thanks so much for the kind words, Kozma <3 You do know warm fuzzies are done for now, right? There's no need to make me feel quite that warm and fuzzy! 

I'd be more than happy to keep this up as a PM conversation, I think it's great having that sort of chats! You can expect a PM from me very soon, or feel free to PM me yourself - if I don't send one this evening it's probably because I've fallen asleep in front of my screen (which is actually very likely to happen any moment now) xP

I will just jot a few thoughts while I'm here though:
Those sorts of doubts make absolute sense to me, and I can assure you I'm not free from them myself, though it doesn't tend to eat away at me as much. But one thing it put me in mind of was the apostle Paul who says in Romans 7 that he also struggled with having sin, and continuing to be sinful even after accepting Jesus into his life. He says:

For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me.

(Now I realise that I've taken that passage somewhat out of context, because the point that he's actually making is more about how the law interacts with our sinful nature to show that we're sinful, but...) It also works to make my point that Paul also fought within himself, wanting conversion to mean a complete stop to all sin, but then finding that it wasn't like that.

Also, this is possibly another thing that you've heard many a time, but the fact that you want to be saved is actually a very sure indication that you are saved.
If I may share a semi-personal thing myself, I grew up in a Christian home and so I was always aware of Christianity and kind of assumed I was a Christian. If I could date my 'conversion', it would be a day when I was about seven years old, and I realised for the first time that being a Christian wasn't automatic, and it was actually a personal thing to become 'friends with God'. I definitely knew that I wanted that, so that's when I "prayed the prayer", and so far as I was concerned, I was a Christian from that point on. A very young Christian, certainly, with some very messed up ideas about having to ask forgiveness for each one of my sins individually, but I've grown a long way since then, and it's not finished yet!
Looking back though, I think that I was probably saved before that day, because I actually already wanted to be a Christian. I had done for as long as I can remember. And I think that's the truest measure of whether God has saved you - wanting to be saved!

I could get really deeply bogged down in discussions about Calvinism right now, but instead I'll just say this: I think that if God has made you want to be a Christian, he's also made you saved. As in, I reckon it's impossible to reject Jesus in your heart accidentally if you really don't want to do that.

I hope you'll come back at me again on this one, because nothing is quite that straightforward, and especially not when you have doubts assailing you. But as you say, PM would be a great medium for this discussion

[Twillie]

Reiqua

We thought we'd let you know that we saw and discussed your suggestion to move this thread to Banter Board, but we've come to the agreement that it's fine in its current placement. Banter Board is more suited towards threads that let off some steam, and while this thread is likely to have some rants on it, moving it would significantly change the thread's tone. As was mentioned before, this club has equal parts hugs and rants, so it does just fine in a neutral location.

The Mods

[Allison]

Oh my goodness. I decided to have a "nostalgia" night, and found this that someone liked to for me when I first joined here. I'm so happy this is getting revived! And as of right now, I really have nothing else to add. Ha!

[Reiqua]

--Spiritual talk--
((Just a warning for if you stumble across this amongst recent posts and you're not comfortable with that kinda thing))

So I guess recently I've been in... a better place spiritually... but not an easy place.

Being a bit complacent about my relationship with God is easy, but I know I want more than that. And recently I've been learning the hard way to be drawing closer to God. In short, when I have to stop leaning so much on my other supports, I get the choice of being miserable, or leaning more on God. Thankfully I've found myself able to be leaning more on God, but the process of needing to is still a bit painful.

I was thinking of posting this in mini-rants, but it's rather spiritual in focus and it's not entirely a rant either - it's a partial gloat for the good thing that's come out of it, and a partial request (if you guys are into that sort of thing) for prayer.

I guess that whatever I have going on, it's nice too just to rest in the knowledge that God is both good and powerful, so what's the worst that could happen? (:

[patriciagwen]

For me, I've met so many new people lately, opening up after being closed up for months after a break-up that coloured my entire life.

I see each person as being created in God's Image, while at the same time a sinner in need of Christ's forgiveness (myself included). Usually I think, God, what do you want me to learn from this new person in my life?

Haven't been to church regularly for a while now - I went with my grandma during the summer, but now that she isn't staying with us anymore, I don't have an excuse/motivation to go even if I know that it's good for me. Maybe I'll attend a 20s/30s bible study before Christmas … I need to get out more

[Allison]

Bumping this because I thought you might like this.

A couple few weeks ago, I heard a lovely piano medley of "God is so Good" and "O Come Let Us Adore Him." (from the last few lines of "O Come All Ye Faithful.") As I had that lingering in my head, I realized something. Pretty much the entire gospel/life of Christ can be sung in that simple chorus. And I kind of started writing a few verses of my own. Here's what I cam up with. The bolded ones are the original. Any other ideas?


O come let us adore Him
O come let us adore Him
O come let us adore Him
Christ the Lord

He shed His blood on Calvary
He shed His blood on Calvary
He shed His blood on Calvary
Christ the Lord

They laid Him in the tomb
They laid Him in the tomb
They laid Him in the tomb, Oh
Christ the Lord

He rose again the third day.
He rose again the third day.
He rose again the third day.
Christ the Lord.

He saved us from our sin,
He saved us from our sin,
He saved us from our sin, Oh
Christ the Lord

We praise our risen Savior
We praise our risen Savior
We praise our risen Savior
Christ the Lord.

He is Jehovah Jireh,
He is Jehovah Jireh,
He is Jehovah Jireh,
Christ the Lord.

He heals the brokenhearted,
He heals the brokenhearted,
He heals the brokenhearted,
Christ the Lord.

We’ll give Him all the glory
We’ll give Him all the glory
We’ll give Him all the glory
Christ the Lord.

For He alone is worthy
For He alone is worthy
For He alone is worthy
Christ the Lord.

He is the King victorious
He is the King victorious
He is the King victorious
Christ the Lord

The Alpha and Omega,
The Alpha and Omega,
The Alpha and Omega,
Christ the Lord.

We’ll praise His name forever,
We’ll praise His name forever,
We’ll praise His name forever,
Christ the Lord.

[Reiqua]

—Spiritual talk—

I’m not sure what to say exactly but... maybe it’ll help if I focus on the positives?

* For one thing God has been teaching me to really understand that I’m his daughter. Which is comforting when things aren’t going so well with my parents.
* For another thing God has been teaching me to really understand how he fills my loneliness. Even if having the loneliness in the first place is not the greatest fun, at least it’s encouraging to see what God’s doing with that.
* Also God’s love is perfect, that’s exciting Perfect love just kinda negates the hurt in things you don’t wanna hear.
* And I suppose I should be grateful that I have humans who love me even if their love is imperfect and they hurt me sometimes.
* And Jesus took away all my guilt for... well pretty much everything I guess, so at least I can know that those feelings of guilt I’ve been struggling with are a lie - Jesus has already switched out my guilt with his guiltlessness so I don’t need to worry about that one.

Anyway, just a couple of positives to put a bit of a different spin on a fairly rough couple of weeks