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Post by Rider on Nov 1, 2004 19:56:25 GMT -5
So many things have been said that I disagree with that I'm not going to even attempt to argue with them. All I have to say is I fear for our country. I really, really do. No matter who gets elected, half of the country's going to be overjoyed, and the other half will be POed. I think I can make a safe bet that most Republicans and Democrats tomorrow couldn't care less about the future of our country, as long as their candidate gets elected. There's been so much backstabbing and hate on both sides of the issue. Most commercials don't say, "This is why you should elect me." No, it's always "This is why you should NOT elect the other guy, because they're bad and did all this evil stuff and now I'm going to make up a bunch of lies to make them look bad!" I don't know the whole truth about either Bush or Kerry, because the candidates and their little media buddies have distorted it so many times. If I studied, I could and would gladly learn that truth, but I don't have the time. But come on, most Americans won't do that, they'll just follow what the media tells them. Frauds and scandals abound. This isn't a real election, it's a mud-slinging party. The previous election took place when I was in fourth grade, so I wasn't paying too much attention to it. Are they *always* this bad? I hope not. So that's why I'm scared. Because both main parties seem concerned that if the opposing candidate wins, the world is going to blow up some way or another. America is divided in hatred right now... bitter hatred. Seriously, people are getting so angry at people because of their differing political views. Whatever happens tomorrow night, there are going to be some angry, unforgiving people. Maybe I can move to Canada  [glow=red,2,300]Three words: Welcome to politics.  [/glow] |
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Post by Buddy on Nov 1, 2004 20:18:58 GMT -5
But there's still massive progress and work being made there. A fight with North Korea would be an extremely tough thing. We even tried to avoid war with Iraq and argued about things for over a year before this happened. No, there is no progress. None. Right now, last thing I heard, they are attempting to organize talks to decide when to begin the talks which broke down a while ago. First, we had France in the Revolution. In fact, had France not gotten into the war, we might not have even one. Remember Yorktown? Now, for your question - no. But we will gain nothing and lose everything if we go about it with the attitude of "Well, we hope you agree with us, but if you don't, well, screw off." We have to defend ourselves, yes, but if you think America will remain a super-power if everyone hates us, you're living in a dream world. Oh, and the wars you listed? Fought on our own soil. Iraq? An invasion. Whether or not you think we went to Iraq to defend ourselves or not, it doesn't matter - the rules are drastically different. Even you can admit that. Heh. Meh bad. Wasn't sure what you were trying to say there.  Alright, I conceede - that is a good way to look at it. Or, if nothing else, a good way to spin it. I can't help but laugh at that comparrison! |
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Post by mrsfluff on Nov 1, 2004 20:19:57 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]Three words: Welcome to politics. [/glow] *sigh* Yeah, I guess so. No wonder I hate politics in general I guess I'll just try to forget all about the election tomorrow and pray for the well-being of America, no matter what. |
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Post by Rider on Nov 1, 2004 20:28:31 GMT -5
*sigh* Yeah, I guess so. No wonder I hate politics in general I guess I'll just try to forget all about the election tomorrow and pray for the well-being of America, no matter what. [glow=red,2,300]Ditto. I think that Kerry is the lesser of two evils, but if all we're voting for is evils, then the world's on a path to Hell. [/glow] |
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Post by Stal on Nov 1, 2004 20:34:38 GMT -5
No, there is no progress. None. Right now, last thing I heard, they are attempting to organize talks to decide when to begin the talks which broke down a while ago. I mean there's still progress in the works. Not necesarily at the moment, but it's still progress from having to invade. You missed my point. My point was we acted with very little to no support from other countries. We won. And the Spanish-American war? Not fought on our own soil. Still, I was getting at that by your standards, we shouldn't have done what we did then, by acting without the support from the other countries. Think about that. [ Heh. You can say spin, but I challenge you to show I'm wrong. No, seriously. Well it's true. |
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Post by Ducky being lazy on Nov 1, 2004 21:08:29 GMT -5
(I have not read ANY of those, just so you know.)
I am Pro- Kerry. He has a plan for America, he's going to FUND NCLB (then my school won't have to get rid of a vast majority of our electives because we're low on money cause we're technically a "failing" school. I don't think this takes into account the fact that 1/3+ of our students are recent immigrants). There's many other reasons too; tort reform, Patriot act, etc.
This is off topic, but does Bush remind anyone else of a potato? And John Kerry looks like Herman Munster and Andrew Jackson.
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Post by Buddy on Nov 1, 2004 21:20:10 GMT -5
You missed my point. My point was we acted with very little to no support from other countries. We won. And the Spanish-American war? Not fought on our own soil. Still, I was getting at that by your standards, we shouldn't have done what we did then, by acting without the support from the other countries. Think about that. Of course we ddin't need support - I seriously doubt we needed support from other countries when British troops were marching through the streets of Washington. Your comparrisons are wrong. Those are situations in which we were defending ourselves ON OUR OWN SOIL! There was no invading of other countries (even if this case was, as you are sure to say, for self-defence. Because, let's be honest - there's a difference between defending your country when British war ships are in your harbor, and defending your country with the tactic of "premptive strike", and invading other countries, presumably, to prevent them from ever attacking you. There just plain is.) However, I can give you a war which is far closer to this one - Vietnam. A war we lost. Gimmie some time... |
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Post by Ducky being lazy on Nov 1, 2004 22:12:54 GMT -5
You just reminded me of how the Spanish American war and Iraq are totally similar.
S.A.W.
Reason it started: The U.S.S. Maine exploded in Havana Harbor and, because the U.S. was having previous troubles (though non-military) with Spain and because of yellow journalism. Turns out the Maine exploded from an internal failure. No bomb, no Spanish. We knew this, went to war anyways.
Spain also controlled Cuba and we wanted to help "liberate" them. Eventually, the U.S. wins, Cuba becomes free, yadda yadda. Under the conditions that they don't go into debt, that we can establish a Navy Port there, and that our troops can come and go as we please.
Iraq:
Reason it started: Claims of WMDs. War. Proven False. We "liberate" them. They don't seem too liberated and free when we're still over there.
Did we have a real reason to fight Spain? No. Real reason to fight Iraq? Nope.
*sigh* This post makes absolutely no sense...
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Post by Kikala on Nov 1, 2004 22:34:17 GMT -5
*whispers* I can't beleive I'm posting this.
Anyway, in two years I'll be able to excercise my right to vote, or not to (Which will most likely be the case)
I would say, I would vote for Bush. I'm sorry, but... the whole, "I was in Vietnam, look at me! I've got a three purple hearts. I've been on the battle field and know more about war then Bush does." just rubs me the wrong way. I hate it, I know Bush is a flip flopper, but I think Kerry is much more of one. *sigh* If I keep going on about how much I hate Kerry, no one here would like me any more so I'll just keep my mouth shut.
So, yeah... and the popular vote doesn't count anyway, so why bother? *shrug*
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Post by kittygirl on Nov 2, 2004 11:55:31 GMT -5
I must aggre with rider and go with the lesser of two evils.
Bush: Oh yes Iraq has every thing to do Afganistan. Who cares that we were so close to getting Osama Ben Laden We need to fight a poinless war! Not to mension we were already in a war against thoughts in people's heads.
Kerry: I want something. I don't want it never mind. I'm for something. Never mind I'm against it.
Yes I exagerated. I agree with getting osama but we just can't get rid of terrorism. Bush trys to make up a reson for every mistake he did. He knows he did something wrong but yet dosn't addmit it. Kerry knows when to change his mind and he admits to it quickly and changes the subject. I hope that Kerry dosn't pull out of Iraq to early. And if you haven't gotten it I'm for Kerry. He is the lesser of two evils. And my message to bush: FACE THE FACTS!
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Post by sollunaestrella on Nov 2, 2004 13:57:48 GMT -5
Yes I exagerated. I agree with getting osama but we just can't get rid of terrorism. Bush trys to make up a reson for every mistake he did. He knows he did something wrong but yet dosn't addmit it. Kerry knows when to change his mind and he admits to it quickly and changes the subject. It wouldn't be half so bad if that was all - that Kerry honestly changed his mind. The thing is - he changes his mind in order to get ahead politically. Whichever way the political wind is blowing - he's going after it. His morals and values change. As far as I know, he's never admitted to making any mistakes either. John Kerry took a poll about Osama Bin Laden. Why on earth does anyone need a poll about Osama Bin Laden? I don't think anybody needs a poll to tell him/her how to feel about that man. Not to mention - Osama's little "speech." He basically said everything the U.S. liberals wanted to hear - basically, that Bush was a horrible president. And people are listening! Honestly, this man would love nothing more than to kill us all! Of course he doesn't want us spending so much money on security! Of course he thinks we should mind our own pretty little businesses and domestic issues and nothing else! That's exactly what we had been doing before 9/11. And look where it got us to! And the phrase I think he used the most often during the debates was "I have a plan." Yet he never said what his plan was. Tell me exactly what you're going to do, Mr. Kerry. I actually went on johnkerry.com for history class to look up his policy on the environment. a direct quote off the site: Sounds great, right? But HOW? Where will the toxins go? How are you going to take on sprawl? How are you going to clean up the environment? And I do think that his message to our troops - "This war is WRONG; help is on the way!" - is helping anybody. Those soldiers aren't drafted - they volunteered. They volunteered to serve their country! And now a man who wants to degrade what they're fighting for is running for president? If I were a soldier over there in Iraq, his message would offend me. The more people criticise George Bush the more I think that he's the better candidate. Just think - so many of the world's greatest leaders were controversial. Take Winston Churchill - take even Abraham Lincoln. He was not a popular guy during the Civil War. Many people then thought that the Civil War should not have been fought. Just think about where the world just might be if the Civil War had not been fought. There was a larger anti-war movement in the 1940's during WWII than there is now. There were people in our country who thought that the Nazis and the slaying of thousands of people was not our problem at all, that it wasn't affecting us, that as long as we were confortable today everything was fine. Is that right? What if we had never entered into WWII? Do you know what kinds of things may have happened? And what if we had never entered Iraq? Things definitely could have happened. Saddam Hussein was dangerous. I really, truly pray that John Kerry is not elected. And I wish I were old enough to vote. |
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Post by Oily on Nov 2, 2004 16:11:00 GMT -5
Oily -- That's interesting, see, that must be pretty recent because I seem to recall you saying that yes, everyone had the same intelligence reports which all indicated they were there. and yeah, by UN Lapdog I mean I want our country to be able to act on it's own accord, even if it steps on toes at times. Haven't you noticed that in my own life? That I will act unilaterally? Oh, and they weren't drug into the war. They still had choices and stands to make. In the end it was there decision to finall ally with us. Plus I was referring to the first part of the e-mail which showed Kerry's blatant hypocrisy and flipflopping. Yes, we had intelligence going "Oh, Iraq has WMDs". But there was a general air of uneasiness and no one was convinced. Then came claims the Government massaged the figures, then came claims it was flawed, and the Government did nothing about it. The UN inspection team had already found nothing, with a reasonably co-operative Saddam. So, yes, we had intelligence reports indicating that they were there and ready to launch within 15 minutes, I think it was? And, yes, no one believed it here But there's stepping on other toes, and there's influencing the way the whole of the Islamic world perceives the whole of the West. Sometimes, it's important to listen to others, because I think Iraq will have far reaching effects on all of us. Oh, and I agree, Kerry just flip-flops a lot. I'm quite similar in fact |
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Post by Bacon on Nov 2, 2004 22:20:19 GMT -5
I want to know who you would or will choose to be the president and why. I would say Kerry. I highly disagree with Bush's views: 1- I am for gay marriage (lol, i live in san francisco, go figure!) 2- I am pro-abortion 3- Bush's views are too highly based on Christianity. I am jewish. I am exactly the opposite. And look who's winning at the moment anyways. |
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Post by Bacon on Nov 2, 2004 22:22:51 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]Ditto. I think that Kerry is the lesser of two evils, but if all we're voting for is evils, then the world's on a path to Hell. [/glow] If all we're voting for is evils, we're electing Kerry and Nader. ;D ;D ;D (EDIT: Boy are a lot of people going to yell at me!) |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2004 15:42:30 GMT -5
Well, Kerry conceded, and now I hear that he definitely lost Ohio.
I really wanted him to win, but I don't suppose it will be too bad with Bush.
I'm just mad that Propositions 1 and 2 were both accepted in my state. They're both bullcrap.
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[/glow]
