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Post by aakfish on Sept 22, 2004 17:15:10 GMT -5
We were talking about this in Business Studies ( the only thing in Business we don't talk about is Business) and the teacher was telling us about how she believed in the conspiracy theory. Not so much that the US and allied governments set it up but that they allowed it to happen so that it would become the new Pearl Harbour , giving us an excuse to go to war. I actually now think it is possible, it makes more sense then anything else. I was just interested in what you guys thought, if you think it is just an evil attack of terrorism or if its much, much darker than that?
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Post by TheEaterofWorlds on Sept 22, 2004 17:38:03 GMT -5
As much as I may distrust/have problems with the current administration, I cannot believe that they would allow a flagrant loss of life just so they could go and cause more loss of life. The terrorist attacks had very little to do with the war in Iraq, and much more to do with Afghanistan. Why would the goverment allow Afghani extremists kill Americans just so they could go make a regime change in Iraq? That's hard for me to swallow.
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Post by Tahu on Sept 22, 2004 17:40:22 GMT -5
Hmm... I do find it suspisious that 15/19 hackers were Saudi, and president bush is in the pocket of the saudis...
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Post by Stal on Sept 22, 2004 17:42:03 GMT -5
Hmm... I do find it suspisious that 15/19 hackers were Saudi, and president bush is in the pocket of the saudis... Liberal propaganda. Please, if you're going to discuss something use facts or at least say that you only believe that's true... |
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Post by TheEaterofWorlds on Sept 22, 2004 18:02:57 GMT -5
Here's my general thinking. I dislike Bush as a President largely. I think he did some stupid things on purpose and some stupid things by accident, or as a result of wanting to do good. That's him as a President. I have no problem with him as a human being. Sure he comes across a little dense. He's very religious, but that in and of itself is not a fault by any stretch of the imagination.
I still do not think that, as a person, Bush is a bad and evil person who would kill hundreds of people through his actions, just to validate a war.
The current war is very bloody, there is a high loss of life. However, this was not *expected* when we went in. America thought this was going to be a wham/bam/thank you ma'am type of a situation, going on a few months at best. So yes human lives are being lost due to Bush's decisions, HOWEVER, it comes from a situation being different than expected, rather than a feeling on Bush's part that over throwing Saddam was worth any amount of American lives.
It just doesn't make sense to me. Bush's arguement against Iraq boils down to this logic; Iraq is dangerous, it's actions could kill Americans. (Yes, Americans, because America is concerned primarily with America for good or bad) So would you really think the government rationale would be;
"Oh no, they could kill Americans, we better let a few hundred Americans die so we can stop them from killing any!"
I don't think that's the case. I'm not naive, I know that the government is not a saintly thing that would *never* put personal profit over the lives of it's citizens. It's done just that in the past. However, I don't think that is what's happening in this case.
A thought that comes to me (That I hope is not the case either) it sure seems like people are spreading this kind of thing to De-humanize Bush and get him out of the White House more easily.
That's how you defeat an oppenent, that's how you sway public opinion; you tell them that the 'enemy' is an evil monster. In WWII we were told things about the Germans, while in Germany citizens were being told that the Jewish ate children. (They were even portrayed as literal monsters in children's books from Germany at this time. Many examples of this can be seen at the Holocoust museum in DC) My point is, the thought that the conspiracy is being spread to discredit a controversial president in a very close election is much more believeable than the conspiracy theory itself.
My thoughts on Bush? I'd rather not get into it, but let's say he's not getting my vote this fall. However, if this really turns out to be propaganda spread to help get him out, it really will make my stomach turn. Both sides are using the biggest tragedy in recent memory to bring people to their side- which is dispicable.
'9/11- We'll never forget' is the 'Remember the Main' of this century. Take every thing you hear about it with a grain of salt.
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Post by TheEaterofWorlds on Sept 22, 2004 18:05:16 GMT -5
Liberal propaganda. Please, if you're going to discuss something use facts or at least say that you only believe that's true... Oh darn it Stal. I'm a liberal, and I only want truth being used to debate and determine this election! If that means my side will lose, that's the price you pay. A victory gained through cheating and lying isn't a victory at all. |
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Post by Tahu on Sept 22, 2004 18:07:03 GMT -5
Liberal propaganda. Please, if you're going to discuss something use facts or at least say that you only believe that's true... Stal, that was a joke. Despite bushs many shortcomings, I don't think that he would kill that many people. As TEOW said, he is very religious, and the first commandment is "Thought Shalt Not Kill." Now, that is not to say that the government had nothing to do with it. I do think it would be tough for a guy hiding in a cave in afgahnistan on diyalisis could coordinate those attacks. I just don't think that bush had any part in it. |
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Post by Stal on Sept 22, 2004 18:14:09 GMT -5
Oh darn it Stal. I'm a liberal, and I only want truth being used to debate and determine this election! If that means my side will lose, that's the price you pay. A victory gained through cheating and lying isn't a victory at all. I didn't say all liberals use it. I said that line is liberal propaganda. And you know it, as well. I just highly dislike when someone makes a claim like that, in any form of propaganda on either side, and that's all they say. Tahu, you claim it's a joke, but that tone isn't evident in your post at all. It's also a well known fact (especially on my end in IMs) you hate Bush and look for any little thing to rake over him. *laughs* Also, the first commandment is "You shall have no other god before me." "Thou Shalt not murder" is commandment 6. And yes he is religious. But, as much as I hate to say it, there are people who claim to be religious in today's world yet they are not. Bush isn't one of them. I've heard enough stories (one, in fact, from someone I know personally who got to meet him on a campaign) to know this to be true. And I think you're wrong on how well Bin Laden is able to adapt to situations. Remember, it was us who helped him overthrow the soviets in Afghanistan. Think about that. Bin Laden is smart, there's no denying it. The government had little to do with what happened. I think that mostly comes from people who just can't bear to believe that America is not invincible and not capable of stopping every attack made on her... |
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Post by Tahu on Sept 22, 2004 18:18:50 GMT -5
I didn't say all liberals use it. I said that line is liberal propaganda. And you know it, as well. I just highly dislike when someone makes a claim like that, in any form of propaganda on either side, and that's all they say. Tahu, you claim it's a joke, but that tone isn't evident in your post at all. It's also a well known fact (especially on my end in IMs) you hate Bush and look for any little thing to rake over him. *laughs* Also, the first commandment is "You shall have no other god before me." "Thou Shalt not murder" is commandment 6. And yes he is religious. But, as much as I hate to say it, there are people who claim to be religious in today's world yet they are not. Bush isn't one of them. I've heard enough stories (one, in fact, from someone I know personally who got to meet him on a campaign) to know this to be true. And I think you're wrong on how well Bin Laden is able to adapt to situations. Remember, it was us who helped him overthrow the soviets in Afghanistan. Think about that. Bin Laden is smart, there's no denying it. The government had little to do with what happened. I think that mostly comes from people who just can't bear to believe that America is not invincible and not capable of stopping every attack made on her... Hmm... I must make my jokes more obvious. Hey, I'm an atheist, what do you expect? I only know one comandment.... |
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Post by The Angry Artist on Sept 22, 2004 22:37:09 GMT -5
Hmm... I do find it suspisious that 15/19 hackers were Saudi, and president bush is in the pocket of the saudis... Liberal propaganda. Please, if you're going to discuss something use facts or at least say that you only believe that's true... Bottom of the middle. www.guardian.co.uk/september11/story/0,11209,1006075,00.html Ignore the first part (I think it’s bogus), but read the last paragraph. story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/20040905/wl_nm/security_graham_saudi_dcAgain, read the last part. www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/11/attack/main572610.shtmlThe last part. www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/29/bush.saudis/Sort of in the middle. I had no idea that The Telegraph, The Guardian, Yahoo!, CBS, and CNN were all liberal propaganda machines. Oh dear, they are all in the hands of the Democrats. What will I do? Maybe I can confide in Fox, my dear Republican news friend! But wait! Hark! Sad news approacheth us! www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,44073,00.html Even Fox mentions that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis. I guess even Rupert Murdoch is a die-hard liberal! Oh lackaday! |
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Post by Stal on Sept 22, 2004 22:40:23 GMT -5
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/07/22/wtc22.xmlBottom of the middle. www.guardian.co.uk/september11/story/0,11209,1006075,00.html Ignore the first part (I think it’s bogus), but read the last paragraph. story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/20040905/wl_nm/security_graham_saudi_dcAgain, read the last part. www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/11/attack/main572610.shtmlThe last part. www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/29/bush.saudis/Sort of in the middle. I had no idea that The Telegraph, The Guardian, Yahoo!, CBS, and CNN were all liberal propaganda machines. Oh dear, they are all in the hands of the Democrats. What will I do? Maybe I can confide in Fox, my dear Republican news friend! But wait! Hark! Sad news approacheth us! www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,44073,00.html Even Fox mentions that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis. I guess even Rupert Murdoch is a die-hard liberal! Oh lackaday! TAA, I'm talking about the latter part. That much is normally pretty obvious. Anyway, I didn't bother clicking the reports as you mis understood the entire point. And, by the way, if my guess is right, they're all done by, what, the AP? *shrugs* Syndicated reporters sell their stories to lots of papers... |
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Post by The Angry Artist on Sept 22, 2004 22:55:54 GMT -5
TAA, I'm talking about the latter part. That much is normally pretty obvious. Anyway, I didn't bother clicking the reports as you mis understood the entire point. And, by the way, if my guess is right, they're all done by, what, the AP? *shrugs* Syndicated reporters sell their stories to lots of papers... *slaps forehead* Perhaps you should have made that clear, or else I wouldn't have posted that. The latter is speculation by extreme liberals (Michale Moore definitely inclusive) and though I don't believe it, I doubt anyone could prove it until long after Bush isn't president (whether or not he is elected) |
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Post by Ember on Sept 23, 2004 13:27:06 GMT -5
That's about as stupid as it gets.
I have little doubt that, once 9/11 happened, Bush wasted no time in twisting it to his purpose. But the idea that he had anything to do with the tragedy actually happening in the first place is beyond absurd. It's those extremist liberals who make all the legitimate complaints about the Bush administration sound suspect, and I'm not going to stand for viscious lies of those sort being spread around. I've said this in debates about women's rights and animal rights and I'll say it again here: extremists are more dangerous to a cause than the opponents themselves. This venomous nonsense does nothing but make liberals look bad.
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