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Post by Torey on Sept 2, 2004 9:10:33 GMT -5
The results of the GCSE's (exams) were in the newspaper today. The people who always worked hard at school got the top grades, the people who played truant and didn't bother to do school work got bad grades. However, do you think that some people are born clever or do you think that people do have to work hard to achieve good grades? I worked hard at school, I only had time off school when I really ill, and I tried my best at my exams. I didn't get good grades though. So I think that some people are born clever, and others have to work hard, and I think some people (like me) are just average with hardly any skills. What do you think about all this?
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Post by aakfish on Sept 2, 2004 9:25:52 GMT -5
I think people are born clever but they have to work for it to make sure they work to the best of their abilities. However people who are not very clever can improve through hard work.
Also about the GCSE's. I hate the league tables because obviously only let B students are going to be at the top. Then people forget about schools who let anyone in and still do really well.
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Post by Tracy on Sept 2, 2004 9:37:50 GMT -5
50/50. I think some people are born with the ability to learn more efficiently, to concentrate more, and to memorise things. These people can get through life easily, and always get top grades.
Then there's people who are not going to be very clever, no matter how hard they try. Some people have disabilities that hinder them, others just simply can't perform to the same level as others.
Now if the people who are born clever just try to slide by with minimum effort, they might still do well, but not as well as they could. People who are born with the potential to be extremely clever, and work hard at it, well... they can do exceedingly well.
People who don't have the natural ability generally take 2 courses. There's the minority who try hard, and learn to the best of their potential. Then there's people who skive off, and just admit defeat before they even begin. They're the ones you'll get in your classes who just feel it necessary to say something stupid and disrupt the lesson.
Of course, smart people can do that as well. I know someone who's top-set everything, and she bunks off, gets in trouble, hangs around in gangs. She recently got suspended for burning her schoolbag, with all her books in it. If she gets a good job in the future, I'll eat my computer.
Likewise, people who have difficulties in learning can achieve great things. It's just where your strengths and weaknesses lie. Not all jobs require extensive Maths, Science and English.
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Post by TheEaterofWorlds on Sept 2, 2004 10:51:21 GMT -5
Actually your intellegence depends a lot on your enviroment. There's a pretty famous study in which there were two groups of women, one average and one very far below average, and each group where given infants to care for. Each group could care for the babies well, that's not to say that the less smart women were worse nuturers in anyway. However, when the children were tested the children given to the mentally disabled women were not a far in their mental development as the children in the other group. Part of that whole 'Nature vs. Nurture' debate.
However when the children from the one group her given to the 'average' group, they caught up with the children in that group. An IQ, expecially at such a young age, is something that can change. It's your capacity to learn. I think that even if you were raised in an enviroment that didn't exctally promote a huge IQ, you can still be a very smart person, you just have to work harder. There's also the question of learning disabilites, etc.. so some people just have to work harder.
So I don't think you're born clever, but I think maybe you can be raised that way...? I'm not sure though. I think it's partcially genetics and part enviroment. There are those child prodigies that far surpase their own parents, so there has to be more than one part to it.
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Post by Stal on Sept 2, 2004 11:17:30 GMT -5
I, for one, actually agree with TEoW here. Of course with the prodigies, they're probably the closest thing to being "born clever" that there is. That they can do things so much easier. Steven Hawking, Einstein, etc. Little known trivia fact about me was that when I was about 4 (or so) I went through these battery of test type things that I only barely remember myself. But I found out a few years back, that the lady giving me those tests and everything was trying to convince my parents to put me in MENSA. As in, I'd become one of those Harvard graduates by like 13.  My parents declined because they wanted me to have a childhood and enjoy it. Technically, I was supposed to graduate High School early, but I wasn't ready for college (in neither my opinion or my dad's), plus I was missing a couple of the classes I needed. Little known facts about me. Hehe. |
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Post by Crystal on Sept 2, 2004 11:19:48 GMT -5
50/50. I think some people are born with the ability to learn more efficiently, to concentrate more, and to memorise things. These people can get through life easily, and always get top grades. Then there's people who are not going to be very clever, no matter how hard they try. Some people have disabilities that hinder them, others just simply can't perform to the same level as others. Now if the people who are born clever just try to slide by with minimum effort, they might still do well, but not as well as they could. People who are born with the potential to be extremely clever, and work hard at it, well... they can do exceedingly well. People who don't have the natural ability generally take 2 courses. There's the minority who try hard, and learn to the best of their potential. Then there's people who skive off, and just admit defeat before they even begin. They're the ones you'll get in your classes who just feel it necessary to say something stupid and disrupt the lesson. Of course, smart people can do that as well. I know someone who's top-set everything, and she bunks off, gets in trouble, hangs around in gangs. She recently got suspended for burning her schoolbag, with all her books in it. If she gets a good job in the future, I'll eat my computer. Likewise, people who have difficulties in learning can achieve great things. It's just where your strengths and weaknesses lie. Not all jobs require extensive Maths, Science and English. I agree with Tracy on this point. And I've been (alas) slacking off the past year... Well, actually I haven't. Just that I've been doing the same amount of work I always have and the expectations have gone up. And about exams - I will now state that I am exceedingly jealous of lil' miss Oily. ^^ |
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Post by Oily on Sept 2, 2004 13:57:21 GMT -5
And about exams - I will now state that I am exceedingly jealous of lil' miss Oily. ^^ Pffl, you don't want to be jealous of me. I think you can be born clever, but IQ at younger ages does have lot to do with nurture. Like getting children to play in certain ways or read in certain ways can really help. But my parents raised all us the same kind of way. I turned out clever, my brother average-ish, and my sister's kind of in between us. You can be born clever and coast along; be clever and work hard; work hard and get better grades etc etc. Natural intelligence is great, but hard work can make up for it to some degrees. My school is private, so it selects people on basis of ability. But you still get a huge range. Some people are in lower/middle groups but will work extremely hard and get excellent results. I think the GCSE grades depend more on the quality of teaching at your school, how well you're prepared etc. I am clever, I work hard, but I couldn't pass History without my teacher. I probably couldn't even pass English. That's because you have to learn all these ways to answer the questions and what the examiners are looking for. It is about potential really. Good teachers, hard work etc enable you to reach your full potential. But even with 1-to-1 coaching and hours of revision, a less clever person won't necessarily pull the top grades, because they're not capable of reaching them. (Though you can be so prepared for GCSEs that it's ridiculous. Intelligence comes through on questions where they give you an unknown type of thing, and you have to work it out.) |
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Post by elfreak2 on Sept 3, 2004 15:48:51 GMT -5
I think that it depends on the person, and on it's enviroment, though ones are fast learners, others are not. Ones are better on the arts, others on math (eww!)
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Post by Jessica Coconut on Sept 4, 2004 1:58:39 GMT -5
Actually, in a way you can! Think about this. Some studies have been done, where they had all of these mother's to be. One group played soft classical music to their unborn babies (like Bach) and another group didn't. A while after they were born, they had their "IQ's" tested. You know, like they'll see if they can recognize two of the same shapes, or if they can follow a pen or something. Anyway, the ones that had been played music had a higher "IQ". Still.... I don't think thats what you guys actually meant... Anyway, I found it interesting. Of course, it has it's flaws, but they say that if you play a baby classical music, it'll grow up smart. |
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Post by TheEaterofWorlds on Sept 4, 2004 2:03:05 GMT -5
What if you play it Metallica's 'Unforgiven' on a hammer dulcimer? .... Sorry. Just popped in my head. I see what you mean though. |
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Post by althechia on Sept 6, 2004 1:54:29 GMT -5
What about Einstein? He wasn't exactly the brightest kid. Everyone thought he'd turn out as dumb as a brick. People said his head was too large. He was actually thought to have had mental disabilities. And he's now the definitive icon of scientific intelligence.
I heard that when he died, upon dissection of his brain, they discovered a little gland of it was a little bit fatter than most parts, which was probably why he was able to learn things so well.
The physiology of the brain has as much to do with intelligence and personality as how you are raised does. How you inherit and develop your brain play major factors in how intelligent you will be. You could be the brightest person in the world and still be a vegetable.
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Post by Torey on Sept 6, 2004 2:15:28 GMT -5
He was actually thought to have had mental disabilities. He apparantly had Asperger Syndrome. It doesn't make you any less clever. It sounded a bit like you were saying having a mental disability prevents you from knowing a lot, but that's not true at all. |
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Post by Stal on Sept 6, 2004 2:23:27 GMT -5
He apparantly had Asperger Syndrome. It doesn't make you any less clever. It sounded a bit like you were saying having a mental disability prevents you from knowing a lot, but that's not true at all. Right. In my opinion Einstein was always very intelligent, but other's perceived him to be dumb as a child. Just because he had some difficulty and all. Sure, some of the stories/rumors about him make him seem dumb, but in my opinion his mind was always just...busy with other stuff? Can't describe it, really.... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2004 5:50:19 GMT -5
I was too lazy to read through all the posts since I'm leaving for gym class in three minutes, so I'll have to hurry up.
As for me, I think you don't get born clever, but you inherit some intelligence from your parents. Enviroment play a role, but whether it affects you negatively or positively depends on you.
There are those people who can slide by with a minimum amount of effort and still get super-good grades (Yes, I'm one of those people.) and then there are people who have to work hard. I wish I was a hard worker, but I'm not and I still get good grades because I dare to speak and have a knack for remembering.
But also, in the work area it will be very hard to find jobs just because you're good at English and math. You have to be social too.
Got to post more, but I'm really low on time here.
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<---- Misty the fennec fox, thanks Sarn 
