A foreign content debate - Subs or dubs?

[Buddy]

Well, I'm far far from an expert on the subject. Really, I only watch one anime show - Inuyasha - and I watch it on cable, not on DVD or anything.

Though I've heard stories about them editing things before. Like how they've taken guns out of Pokemone and stuff. And actually, it does make me curious as to what the Japanesse versions look like, or if they're any better.

The one thing that does get on my nerves is video games. Like Final Fantasy X. I'll tell you, it really gets to me at times how badly the voices match the lips. I mean, it's understandable I guess - unlike anime animation, you can't just edit things in a video game cut-scene to make it fit, you would have to actually go in and redo the cut-scene. So I can't really hold it against them. But still... it's almost worth playing American games like Grand Theft Auto just to see the lips match the voices.

I know it's not really their fault, but still... It really gets on my nerves!

[The Wanderer]

Subbed.

But! I do believe that it is worth watching it dubbed, if the english voices actually have talent. But in 99% of the anime's that I watch, I watch them subbed.

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was so much better subbed, that I even got into a fight about it with an annoying guy in school.

But still, I do enjoy being able to watch the foreign stuff, without reading what they are saying, as opposed to hearing it.

I'm going to say I am 50/50 on preferences.

[Oily]

Buddy said:

The one thing that does get on my nerves is video games. Like Final Fantasy X. I'll tell you, it really gets to me at times how badly the voices match the lips. I mean, it's understandable I guess - unlike anime animation, you can't just edit things in a video game cut-scene to make it fit, you would have to actually go in and redo the cut-scene. So I can't really hold it against them. But still... it's almost worth playing American games like Grand Theft Auto just to see the lips match the voices.

I know it's not really their fault, but still... It really gets on my nerves!

Oh, FFX *shiver* They are really so out of sync. Mind you, I'd rather have voices than text boxes. It kind of ruins the atmosphere to have:

"Ohh.....I don't know. I'm not in love with you." or something equally climatic, written down in text.

[The Wanderer]

Of course, come to think of it, I think some anime fans are a wee bit too picky when it comes to choosing subtitles, and dubbed anime. It's really all the same. Plus, if you get an anime collection on DVD, you have the luxury of watching both versions.

[TheEaterofWorlds]

The better you understand Japanese, the worse dubs are. I promise. In any dub there will be things that are left out. What gets it worse are puns. The more 'Japanese' a series is in it's sensibilities, the more they'll dumb it down. Take AzumangaDaiO. I love that show, and I'll admit they did try their best but so many jokes are butchered or gone in the English version.

Or Shamanic Princess. I tried to watch it years ago dubbed and I didn't understand a lick of it. Watched it subbed, made perfect sense.

Also; Steel Angel Kurumi one of the worst dubs ever and hands down the worst dub not made for TV. *bristle* Poor Saki, they murderized her voice.

Also if a character has a regional accent, forget it. It'll be replaced with a bad southern accent if they actually include it at all.

Also some American voice directors *CoughEricStuartCough* will decide to take the acting in a 'different direction'. Which basically means they'll ruin everything. Like Kojirou (James) from Pokemon. He's crazy and sort of suave in Japanese. Stuart looks at him and goes "Hmm... I'll play him gay." (I'm not guessing, he really admited that.) So now so many people think James is gay and I can't convince them otherwise. (I used to run a site sort of large Team Rocket site. Now Mr. Stuart is a nice guy and all from what I got through E-mail, but as a voice director... Let's put it this way. He directs for YuGiOh and does Seto Kaiba's voice. And Pegasus. I can tell a Stuart Voice from a mile away.)

Also, how many American voice actors have you seen that can't even pronounce their own character's name? Waaaaay too many.

I never had a problem with reading subtitles and looking at the screen. I read very fast, and if the subtitles run too fast you can always pause it.

Plus, if you watch subs you're more likely to pick up new Japanese words. I've picked up plenty like tabun, (from Saiyuki) 'oshieru', 'tojiru', 'aho', iroiro' and many others. Plus it helps your listening skills and pronounciation.

I haven't watched a dub in a looong time. Trigun had an okay dub, and I'm told Haibane Renmei's is alright.

Keep in mind that many American voice actors are still in acting school. (ADVision....) While Japanese seiyuu are pros with far more experiance and vocal range. Many can also sing.

So... maybe I'm a little stuck-up about it, but really... dubs make my ears bleed.

[KittyKadaveral]

TheEaterofWorlds said:

Also some American voice directors *CoughEricStuartCough* will decide to take the acting in a 'different direction'. Which basically means they'll ruin everything. Like Kojirou (James) from Pokemon. He's crazy and sort of suave in Japanese. Stuart looks at him and goes "Hmm... I'll play him gay." (I'm not guessing, he really admited that.) So now so many people think James is gay and I can't convince them otherwise. (I used to run a site sort of large Team Rocket site. Now Mr. Stuart is a nice guy and all from what I got through E-mail, but as a voice director... Let's put it this way. He directs for YuGiOh and does Seto Kaiba's voice. And Pegasus. I can tell a Stuart Voice from a mile away.)

Yup, that's one of the main thing that annoys me with dubs. Voices that make a person cringe. I myself never really felt James was gay, I just thought he had the snobby voice of some dopey rich guy. Mr. Howell from Gilligan's Island sort of comes to mind. ((Just because he wears womens clothing as a disguise hardly makes him gay, Jessie wears males clothing for the same reason and I dont see anyone ripping on her ) I would LOVE if they had uncut Japanese versions of Pokemon out there, but as of yet I haven't had too much luck with searching on Ebay.

I'll disagree with the 'dubs can be just as good as subs." Yeah, to a point, but yet not fully. I think you lose the true story in a sub and the voices get tiring after a while. I think I for one would love to smack the snot out of Ash from Pokemon for more than one reason. If they could translate and dub over that would be one thing, but they don't. They make the dialog match the mouth flaps so that in itself screws things up.

Having trouble reading AND watching the movie at the same time shouldn't be that big of a drama deal either. I mean, if you watch the thing enough and learn the story you shouldn't have a need to watch the subtitles. I sat here one day watching The Right Stuff on a Spanish channel. Now, I know NO Spanish, but the movie I literally know by heart so it didn't make a bit of difference that they were speaking another language. Heck, sometimes that can be fun.

[The Wanderer]

Japanese is a hard language to learn. I had a hard enough time learning Spanish. And that language is Latin-derived, meaning it is similar to the Englsih language. (I don't even know how to say 'hello' and 'goodbye' in Japanese.)

I always liked watching the Japanese version second. Reason being, is because I want to see the differences in dialogue. The main reason some dialogue is changed, is because there are English actors, or script-writers who think it would be better for 'effect' to modify it a little.

I do tend to think that anime fans are purists, in that they'd rather have it original, than in English. As I said in an earlier post, I liked Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon subtitled, and ditto for Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away.

But on the flip-side, try to imagine what dubs for old cartoons like Mickey Mouse, and Looney Tunes may sound like in Japanese, (if they exist).

[Stal]

The said:

Japanese is a hard language to learn. I had a hard enough time learning Spanish. And that language is Latin-derived, meaning it is similar to the Englsih language. (I don't even know how to say 'hello' and 'goodbye' in Japanese.)

I always liked watching the Japanese version second. Reason being, is because I want to see the differences in dialogue. The main reason some dialogue is changed, is because there are English actors, or script-writers who think it would be better for 'effect' to modify it a little.

Well, English is more Germanic, but we have plenty of Latin based words. ^_^

By the way...it's "Konnichiwa" and "Sayanora"

I can tell you good morning, too "Ohayo Gozaimasu" (I think. I probably messed up there)

[ashketchum173175]

I've never seen subtitled anime. Reason? I can't find any. It sounds, though, that the storylines work, at least. Still, it seems that they had good reasons for dubbing the shows (protect the eyes of our youth? Maybe. But then, why is there still smut on the 'Net then?). Oh well. Life in landlocked Minnesota...

("I thought Vikings didn't exist anymore!"/"They only do in Minnesota!")

That has got to be the one of the most dumb things Ash has ever said. (and I LIKE the first few seasons of the show!)

[The Wanderer]

AK-17 said:

I've never seen subtitled anime. Reason? I can't find any. It sounds, though, that the storylines work, at least. Still, it seems that they had good reasons for dubbing the shows (protect the eyes of our youth? Maybe. But then, why is there still smut on the 'Net then?). Oh well. Life in landlocked Minnesota...



That has got to be the one of the most dumb things Ash has ever said. (and I LIKE the first few seasons of the show!)

I don't know about the Japanese version, but Ash IS a complete moron in the American version.

EDIT:

Ninja said:

Well, English is more Germanic, but we have plenty of Latin based words. ^_^

By the way...it's "Konnichiwa" and "Sayanora"

I can tell you good morning, too "Ohayo Gozaimasu" (I think. I probably messed up there)

Yep... not only does the script look hard to learn, but so are the words, and pronunciations. *sighs* *mulls over taking a Japanese class*

[Speck]

Subtitles. There is no doubt about it.

For once, dubbed anime have the following quirks:
- They butcher the name of almost all the characters on the show. (For Yu-gi-oh!, I can understand how they got Joey from Jounouchi, but how on EARTH do you get Tristan from Honda?)

- Many funny/important parts of the plot are edited out... Or, in some cases, the names for things are changed. (Onigiri, aka rice balls, DO NOT equal "doughnuts"!!!)

- The majority of the voice acting for dubs isn't done well. Isn't it funny how we can find moderately good voice-actors for our own cartoons, but take the job half-seriously when trying to find actors for dubbed anime?


There are only two cases in which I will watch dubbed anime. The first would be if I have an anime-loving friend with bad eyesight. She/he won't be able to read the subtitles, so you switch it to dubbed.

The second case would be if it's extremely late at night.

[KittyKadaveral]

The same goes with a lot of the Chinese movies I used to watch on Chinese Action Theatre years and years ago back in Ohio. They ALWAYS had one lamer voice and he was usually the bad guy lackey or something. I remember this one movie had a scene with a girl running from something and two twin males jumped out at her. Mind you this is a live action movie, not a cartoon. Well, the startled girl jumps back and is like Who are you? Honest to the All Mighty they said in a goofy voice, My name is Hor and my name is Ne put us together we're very HOR-NE Ummm you get the picture x.x She beat the snot out of them with her Kung fu and she ran away. For the life of me I dont remember the name of that movie, but all I kept thinking was how the heck did that translate to that? and how did it pass the censors? LOL

[TheEaterofWorlds]

The said:

Yep... not only does the script look hard to learn, but so are the words, and pronunciations. *sighs* *mulls over taking a Japanese class*

(Close Stal, it's Sayonara)

I guess it's hard, but mostly it's fun. The pronunciations aren't bad because unlike a lot of languages I've had to deal with, Japanese stays constant in it's pronunciation. A will always be said 'ah' no matter what letters it's near or word it's in. ^___^

Kanji takes a lot of time to learn, but Hiragana and katakana you can learn in a little over a week. (Hint: mkae flash cards) Once you know some kanji you'll miss it when it's not there. Japanese is very contextual and it can take the guess work out of which word is meant.

Unlike German or French words have no gender! That makes me dance with happiness. No 'der die oder das'. Congigating words is tricky, but once you learn the patterns it's cool. Grammer is also a little easier then some languages. (You don't have to change sentance structure to make a statement a question. That's so cool.) Plus it's easier to make puns. ^___^

(I disagree with the statement that dubs and subs are basically the same. Here's one right off the top of my head. Ghost in the Shell. Dub; Sorry, there's some static in my brain. Sub; It's that time of the month. Pretty big difference. Steel Angel Kurumi completely re-did the episode previews and made Saki a loudmouth. I've even seen dubs take an open ended erm.. ending and make the desicion of what happened for you, when it was supposed to be left for the veiwer. Dubs tend to insult your intellegence.)

As for Mickey Mouse in Japanese, probably is funny sounding. I know the Simpsons is. It's not a case of 'it must be Japanese' for me, I just want to hear it in the original language. I watch tons of movies in languages I can't understand. French, Chinese, German, Punjab... The English version is always missing something. Not because English can't convey emotion or something silly like that, it just doesn't do it in the same way. When you only allow yourself to hear emotion being expressed in one way, in one language, you're robbing yourself.

Edit: Oh yeah...

"unlike anime animation, you can't just edit things in a video game cut-scene to make it fit, you would have to actually go in and redo the cut-scene" They don't actually edit the animation when redubbing anime really, I've seen the process (on video, not in person) They write the dialouge to fit the mouth movements and the actors try to match up when they talk. Sometimes they pad and sometimes they cut words. The word density is so different though, that it sometimes just doesn't work.

[belldandy213]

Sub! Sub! Sub! Sub!!!!! ;D

I hate dub. They usually change things when stuff are dub, and in some cases, change the whole PLOT!!!!!