A foreign content debate - Subs or dubs?

[Jessica Coconut]

I felt it's time to have a fun or silly debate. More of a discussion really.

For all of you who watch Foreign Content on TV, from any country that doesn't speak your language, which do you prefer, the subtitled version, or the dubbed version (where they get voice actors to speak over the old ones that most viewer's can't understand)?

I'm kind of curious, as I'm an avid anime fan (just got back from Anime Evolution on saturday, YAY!) and a lot of people are saying that the more serious ones watch subtitled anime in the original language, because it's "better".

Not quite the current debate boards style, but I feel that every once in a while we should have a more fun debate. But then, I also have crazy ideas that perhaps for every topic we post on the banter board, we should try to post something on the Positive thoughts board too.

[KittyKadaveral]

I'm a big time Pokemon fan (as if you couldn't tell from the tattoo pic I posted and my siggy) and I would much rather watch the episodes in their subtitled versions with the original Japanese talking because the English ones are all messed up. I watched Card Captor Sakura in Japanese and wow what a difference compared to the wussed out and stupid Americanized storylines. You get a better gist with the true story and since they dont have to revamp it to make the mouth flaps match you can follow things more true. They also don't have to hide the true story as much as they do when they show them dubbed here.

Trust me...there's a Pokemon episode that has James sporting a pair of inflatable boobies for a bikini contest and he actually blew them up and jiggled them at a shocked Misty. For obvious reasons they cut that out. He's also more vocal about his feelings for Jessie, so yeah, I would much rather have the subtitles.

As for Card Captors, there was so much subtle homosexuality in that show and one would never know it with the dubs. In fact, I saw the one episode that showed something 'naughty' but they dubbed it so you just were like huh, but the true meaning behind it I knew and couldn't understand why they didn't just cut it out instead of butchering like they did.

Sorry if this makes no sense, but my head is swimming for a good reason and so I'll leave now.

But yes...I'd rather have subtitle anime than dubbed.

[Ikkin]

Subtitled versions are always closer to the original. But dubbed versions can be decent too, as long as the company doing the dub wants to keep it as close as possible. The problem with most dubs is that they are edited. A completely unedited, un-Americanized dub in which character voices are chosen wisely based on personality and original voice, would be nearly as good as a subtitled version, and some people would enjoy it more, since they didn't have to constantly read.

Dub should not be the equivilent of butchered. Unfortunately, due to the companies that do the dubbing, it has been made that way.

I myself usually watched dubbed versions of anime because I'm lazy, subs cost more, and I have PG-rated sensibilities. However, there are many things I'd like changed with them, such as the dumbing down factor, (companies seem to think little kids can't handle anything- Pokemon example Myuutsuu to Ai, [called Origin of Mewtwo in English, but that also refers to a teeny segment in the movie itself] which only showed up in the DVD of the made-for-video Mewtwo Returns. Probably didn't think the little kiddies could handle it) idiotic edits (Root Beer, fruit punch, etc. in place of alcohol, burning toothpicks, and the editing-out of tears)
and rampant Americanization ("I thought Vikings didn't exist anymore!"/"They only do in Minnesota!") Changing these things makes dubs much more tolerable.

Anyways, Subs are always the more pure version, but Dubs should be able to stay close (not that they do) If they have to edit for violence, they should aim to stay as close as possible (It seems that they have much more leeway than most use. For example, Rurouni Kenshin got away with several things edited out of Dragon Ball Z, and they aired on the same channel with the same rating[Cartoon Network, both as Y7])

Just my two cents... *walks off grumbling about how much more subtitled versions cost, and the inavailability of subs for Myuutsuu No Gyakushu (Mewtwo Strikes Back [Americanization or not? You decide!]}*

[Princess Ember Mononoke]

I watch mostly dubbed anime - for the longest time I'd never even seen ANYTHING subbed - and let me tell you, I got a few shockers when I went to websites about Yu Yu Hakusho run by fans dedicated enough to watch it in the original Japanese. However, there was only one major change in the plot - and that of only one episode - and to be completely honest, I prefer the American version of the plot. It went something like this:

American: Miyuki is a rare female warrior. Yusuke is forced to fight her. After taking a beating and nearly getting killed, Yusuke manages to turn the tables to his advantage. He has Miyuki crumpled up and lying at his feet and is about to deliver the final blow when Kuwabara grabs him and screams at him for fighting a girl, to be a gentleman, etc. etc. and just generally looking like he's about ready to kill someone. Yusuke tells him to take a close look at Miyuki, and informs him that her injuries aren't as serious as she's been pretending. It was a hoax to make Yusuke faulter or, failing that, get Kuwabara to turn against him, either of which would have given her a chance to kill them. Miyuki rises to her feet and say that yes, she was faking. But that all her life she'd been considered inferior, been treated like a weakling - and why shouldn't she take advantage of that? Yusuke tells her that all this time he'd been fighting her like he would any other opponent, and that if what she wanted was equality, well, that's what she'd get - and kills her.

Japanese: Yusuke is forced to fight Miyuki. After taking a beating and nearly getting killed, Yusuke manages to turn the tables to his advantage. He has Miyuki crumpled up and lying at his feet and is about to deliver the final blow when Kuwabara grabs him and screams at him for fighting a girl, to be a gentleman, etc. etc. and just generally looking like he's about ready to kill someone. Yusuke tells him to take a close look at Miyuki, and informs him that - have you guessed it, yet? - Miyuki is actually a man. Yusuke had been getting some weird vibes, and, whenn he got the opportunity "checked" Miyuki and confirmed his suspicions. It was a hoax to make Yusuke faulter or, failing that, get Kuwabara to turn against him, either of which would have given Miyuki a chance to kill them. Miyuki rises to <i>his</i> feet and says that, yes, it was a hoax - that he had seen how men think of women, heard the mantras about not hitting girls, and figured it was the perfect scam. Yusuke tells him that he's a sicko to take advantage of chivalry - and kills him.

So, yeah, American meddling isn't ALWAYS a bad thing, though most of the time it is best to stay true to the original. I, for one, LOVED Miyuki's story in the American version - it was one of my favorite subplots in Yu Yu Hakusho and I considered writing a fanfic backstory for her. When I found out what the original story was, well, it ruined it for me. Femninist Gone to the Dark Side > Opportunistic Transvestite. That's all I have to say.

[Eggz]

Subbed all the way. I love hearing their cute little Japanese voices and the original expressions they're supposed to be in. Plus, sometimes in dubbed anime names or Japanese words are horribly mispronounced.

[Kiddo]

Subbed, definitely. Radical Edward just ain't Ed with the high-pitched female American voice. *cringes in pain*

[Princess Ember Mononoke]

Actually, that's NOT all I have to say.

If the dubbing is decent, I really do prefer it to subbing, partly because having to read the subs detracts from your ability to read the art. And there ARE occasions when the dubbing team does an excellent job. Take my favorite movie, "Princess Mononoke." That was absolute perfection. I would not believe that the original Japanese voice actors could have done a better job. Haboshi's American voice actress was especially brilliant - the perfect picture of understated evil.

On the other hand, you have "Poltergeist Report," the Yu Yu Hakusho movie. I bought it on a DVD that has both subbed and dubbed tracks, and first tried to watch it on the dubbed track. I was dismayed to find that they had different voice actors than in the show - and bad ones, at that. Just ten minutes of it made me want to strangle someone - preferably the woman who did Hinageshi's voice. Really, I'm sure she would say something stupid like "Ah. Help. I'm being murdered" in a really platonic tone, because I get the impression she doesn't even know what emotion IS. I stopped watching it, and tried it again on the subbed track, and the difference was AMAZING. It still wasn't as good as the show - mainly because the plot itself was somewhat subpar - but all in all it was a pretty solid piece of anime, and pretty enjoyable.
Although there were still pparts of MyST quality.
Hinageshi: Hiei's going to turn evil!
Me: You really don't know him that well, do you dear?

[KittyKadaveral]

I'm desperately trying to find the Japanese versions of ANY Pokemon episodes. Ebay's no help for some reason. Are they not out or something? Yeah, I know subtitles cost more, but I'm sure more people that are die-hards would appreciate the effort and buy them.

I know some storylines make no sense and yes some anime does better being Americanized, but I shudder with some voices. Yu-gi-O could be SO much better without the idiotic, dramatic booming voices and the voices with no emotions. They all sound the same in that show so it's hard for me to attatch to it.

[Killix]

Subbed. I like hearing them all talk in Japanese, it sounds better...but it's kinda hard to watch and read the text at the same time....or maybe I'm just crazy. I dunno XD I just really don't like when they take the big ol' edit axe and chop something's storyline to bits and some of the english voices sound way off...

*thinks of Siren and everyone's horribly fake British accents* ;_;

[Torey]

I prefer subtitles. I love to hear them speaking Japanese and it doesn't bother me to read the subtitles at the bottom. And the thing I don't like about the dubbed versions is that all the characters have American voices. There are hardly any English speaking ones (apart from a few villains and wise folk :, and I've never heard any Australian, Welsh, Scottish or Irish voices. This is nothing against America, it's against the people that create the dubbed programmes. Do they think that Americans are the only ones who exist? It kind of makes me mad.

Hehe, sorry for putting a bit of a damper on this whole discussion.

[Jessica Coconut]

Ginger said:

I prefer subtitles. I love to hear them speaking Japanese and it doesn't bother me to read the subtitles at the bottom. And the thing I don't like about the dubbed versions is that all the characters have American voices. There are hardly any English speaking ones (apart from a few villains and wise folk :, and I've never heard any Australian, Welsh, Scottish or Irish voices. This is nothing against America, it's against the people that create the dubbed programmes. Do they think that Americans are the only ones who exist? It kind of makes me mad.

Hehe, sorry for putting a bit of a damper on this whole discussion.

Some animes do it for a reason. Sometimes, to make a clear distinction in personalitys.

Take Sailor Moon. I believe in the subbed, Luna is more teenager like, and not so naggy. In the dubbed, Serena's is obviously american, but they made luna like a nanny. Furthering that, she has a BRITISH ACCENT!

See? Sometimes they just want them to fit in. If they look of a different nationality, I hope they try to get an accent that works.

By the way, I just watched my first episode of Sailor Moon. Not episode 1, but I have 10-12 episodes in both. Watched them in English first, then with the Japanese. Hmm. The most I can say about it is I'll have to get used to it. But I absolutely LOVE hearing the Japanese voices in song. It's so brilliant. But the speech is kind of hard to get used too. I actually have the ones where Hotaru appears, and I can safely say that her voice is the one I can adjust to best. (She's my fav character, but I've only seen her once on screen before I bought the DVD's last saturday at Anime Evolution) They got a good VA for the american version.

[aakfish]

I'm obbsessed with Japanese films - Battle Royale, Ring etc, but I would never watch a dubbed one. Subtitles all the way for me.

[Oily]

I think I'd rather subbed. I like hearing the original voices better. Dubbed is good, if it's faithful, but so many aren't. I'm sick of Americanisation of certain things too - they're eating rice balls, and calling them sandwiches

For foreign language films, I definitely prefer subtitles. It's meant to be cinema death, so they try to dub them, but I like being able to pick out words in the original language and hear the original emotion.

And on foreign TV channels, I like being able to put on subtitles, because I can translate written Spanish and French far more easily ^^

[Deleted]

I prefer dubbed.

First of all, I don't like reading while watching. Sometimes the text is too fast.

Second, sometimes you can't read the text because it's colour blends in which the background.

However, I don't like how dubs are Americanized. I cringed when I watched DBZ episodes. They mentioned Einstein and Elvis, who didn't even exist in the DBZ world (and yet, the Japanese themselves screwed up with one of the movies, in which Hitler came back from the dead). I also don't like how anime dubs are generally aimed at parents, while subs are aimed at older teens and adults. That makes it so the adults and older teens can't enjoy the dubs as much, because they've been childized.

[thegreenmooseofdoom]

Subbed. I want to hear it as it was meant to be heard.