The possibility of time travel

[Jessica Coconut]

I will say this now.

I have not read the previous posts in depth. But I will make a point.

If anyone manages to go back in time, or to the future, and I ever find out or realise the difference, I will personally murder the person. Or at least go back and stop them from going forward.

Why? Because they will screw up the whole universe. A little game I used to play before, kind of with myself, often alone,I would pick a situation in the past that I'd have liked changed, change it the way I want, and look at the possibilities of what could happen. It helped calm me, by allowing me to think about how bad the world could be if I changed it. Sometimes it's cool, but more often than not, its horrible.

If you go back in time, every step you take, every life you influence, in the tenniciest way, every motion (or not, for that matter, if you choose to stay still) will affect the future.

What if you go back, and decide to say hi to someone? You start chatting. You end up making that person (or yourself) late. Endless occurances, depending on what you or your friend had to do. What if they were late for a college exam? What if they were supposed to be at their post, waiting for an alarm, like ambulence drivers? What if they have some deadly experiment in which something must be done before a certain time when it blows up? OK, it might not go that far, but you never know what they were doing that possibly couldn't wait.

What if all the wars today could be averted if someone said "Sorry"? We don't know. Maybe the world would be twice as overpopulated. Maybe a big percentage of those that happened to have died in those wars would actually have grown up to be Hitlers that don't care for stupid apologies? NOBODY KNOWS. I don't even care if someday I die, and if something could have been done to prevent it but wasn't. Why? Because if it happened, it was meant to happen. It's the balance of the universe.

How can I prove it? It's right here on Neopets. The Neo Adventure Generator. See what happens when you redo an action just a teeny bit different? OK, not every little thing we do in the world seems to make a big deal, but maybe that's because we only get to do it once, and we have no idea what would or could happen had it been done differently. I would like to go back a few days to stop (or at least find out) whatever made my paint spill that day, but I have no idea what it was. What if it was a giant mutant rat? What would I have done had I encountered it? I don't know, you tend to act differently if you think on your feet. What if I took a broom, took a thwack at it, and knocked over my table, and in the process of trying to stop it ended up making things worse.

And you can't call it unrealistic because like I said, I only had the opportunity to do it once, so anything could have happened had I made a tiny different move. It's not real, and I forbid it ever to be.

The world could be so much worse, or for all we know, not exist. Isn't it true that at a time, there was enough explosives and nuclear weapons to destroy the world?

I'm very firm on this and make this argument every time I discuss time travel.

[ruben]

Jessica said:

I will say this now.

I have not read the previous posts in depth. But I will make a point.

If anyone manages to go back in time, or to the future, and I ever find out or realise the difference, I will personally murder the person. Or at least go back and stop them from going forward.

Why? Because they will screw up the whole universe. A little game I used to play before, kind of with myself, often alone,I would pick a situation in the past that I'd have liked changed, change it the way I want, and look at the possibilities of what could happen. It helped calm me, by allowing me to think about how bad the world could be if I changed it. Sometimes it's cool, but more often than not, its horrible.

If you go back in time, every step you take, every life you influence, in the tenniciest way, every motion (or not, for that matter, if you choose to stay still) will affect the future.

What if you go back, and decide to say hi to someone? You start chatting. You end up making that person (or yourself) late. Endless occurances, depending on what you or your friend had to do. What if they were late for a college exam? What if they were supposed to be at their post, waiting for an alarm, like ambulence drivers? What if they have some deadly experiment in which something must be done before a certain time when it blows up? OK, it might not go that far, but you never know what they were doing that possibly couldn't wait.

What if all the wars today could be averted if someone said "Sorry"? We don't know. Maybe the world would be twice as overpopulated. Maybe a big percentage of those that happened to have died in those wars would actually have grown up to be Hitlers that don't care for stupid apologies? NOBODY KNOWS. I don't even care if someday I die, and if something could have been done to prevent it but wasn't. Why? Because if it happened, it was meant to happen. It's the balance of the universe.

How can I prove it? It's right here on Neopets. The Neo Adventure Generator. See what happens when you redo an action just a teeny bit different? OK, not every little thing we do in the world seems to make a big deal, but maybe that's because we only get to do it once, and we have no idea what would or could happen had it been done differently. I would like to go back a few days to stop (or at least find out) whatever made my paint spill that day, but I have no idea what it was. What if it was a giant mutant rat? What would I have done had I encountered it? I don't know, you tend to act differently if you think on your feet. What if I took a broom, took a thwack at it, and knocked over my table, and in the process of trying to stop it ended up making things worse.

And you can't call it unrealistic because like I said, I only had the opportunity to do it once, so anything could have happened had I made a tiny different move. It's not real, and I forbid it ever to be.

The world could be so much worse, or for all we know, not exist. Isn't it true that at a time, there was enough explosives and nuclear weapons to destroy the world?

I'm very firm on this and make this argument every time I discuss time travel.

I suggest you read my last post.

- Ruben V.

[KittyKadaveral]

Belgian said:

If we didn't have time, we wouldn't exist.

- Ruben V.

So...are you saying that all the ancient tribal folks that didn't have clocks and stuff don't exist because they didn't comprehend time? I read in Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee that the white men were always getting ticked off because the Native Americans always came to the white meetings late, but they HAVE no concept of those foolish numbers and things so since they didn't worry about white man's numbers and gears and gizmos to harness time, are you saying Indians didn't exist or other cultures that didn't have clocks?

[ruben]

KittyKadaveral said:

So...are you saying that all the ancient tribal folks that didn't have clocks and stuff don't exist because they didn't comprehend time? I read in Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee that the white men were always getting ticked off because the Native Americans always came to the white meetings late, but they HAVE no concept of those foolish numbers and things so since they didn't worry about white man's numbers and gears and gizmos to harness time, are you saying Indians didn't exist or other cultures that didn't have clocks?

Erm... I meant time as the thing that is here forever... I was meaning that if we didn't have time (hyper hypothetical) then we wouldn't exist because time ages us, time lets us be, time separates us, time is everything...

- Ruben V.

[Crystal]

Jessica said:

I will say this now.

I have not read the previous posts in depth. But I will make a point.

If anyone manages to go back in time, or to the future, and I ever find out or realise the difference, I will personally murder the person. Or at least go back and stop them from going forward.

Why? Because they will screw up the whole universe. A little game I used to play before, kind of with myself, often alone,I would pick a situation in the past that I'd have liked changed, change it the way I want, and look at the possibilities of what could happen. It helped calm me, by allowing me to think about how bad the world could be if I changed it. Sometimes it's cool, but more often than not, its horrible.

If you go back in time, every step you take, every life you influence, in the tenniciest way, every motion (or not, for that matter, if you choose to stay still) will affect the future.

What if you go back, and decide to say hi to someone? You start chatting. You end up making that person (or yourself) late. Endless occurances, depending on what you or your friend had to do. What if they were late for a college exam? What if they were supposed to be at their post, waiting for an alarm, like ambulence drivers? What if they have some deadly experiment in which something must be done before a certain time when it blows up? OK, it might not go that far, but you never know what they were doing that possibly couldn't wait.

What if all the wars today could be averted if someone said "Sorry"? We don't know. Maybe the world would be twice as overpopulated. Maybe a big percentage of those that happened to have died in those wars would actually have grown up to be Hitlers that don't care for stupid apologies? NOBODY KNOWS. I don't even care if someday I die, and if something could have been done to prevent it but wasn't. Why? Because if it happened, it was meant to happen. It's the balance of the universe.

How can I prove it? It's right here on Neopets. The Neo Adventure Generator. See what happens when you redo an action just a teeny bit different? OK, not every little thing we do in the world seems to make a big deal, but maybe that's because we only get to do it once, and we have no idea what would or could happen had it been done differently. I would like to go back a few days to stop (or at least find out) whatever made my paint spill that day, but I have no idea what it was. What if it was a giant mutant rat? What would I have done had I encountered it? I don't know, you tend to act differently if you think on your feet. What if I took a broom, took a thwack at it, and knocked over my table, and in the process of trying to stop it ended up making things worse.

And you can't call it unrealistic because like I said, I only had the opportunity to do it once, so anything could have happened had I made a tiny different move. It's not real, and I forbid it ever to be.

The world could be so much worse, or for all we know, not exist. Isn't it true that at a time, there was enough explosives and nuclear weapons to destroy the world?

I'm very firm on this and make this argument every time I discuss time travel.

I agree with Jessica about this.

From a purely objective standpoint (that is, logical, analytical and totally emotionless), if you stopped every war that ever happened we'd be waaaaaay overpopulated here...

Dimensions are a bit too weird. Dimly possible, but why in the world would you want to send yourself to a totally different dimension? Oh, yay, dimension of ____. How do we get back now? What do dimensions have to do with time? If you send yourself to a totally different dimension in an attempt to change something (and there'll have to be a HUGE amount of dimensions for that, infinite actually, since every single action ever done will lead off into another totally different dimension, so every single action done by every single human being on the planet will be different. Heck, why stick to humans? Every action done by every animal down to the last sewer rat, down through all the generations will have a happy different dimension!), how the heck are you going to get back to your own dimension? So you'll have the dimension no. 2 you and the dimension no. 1 you stuck in one dimension, and in the other you just poofed.

The paradoxes just hurt my head...


_{But on the other hand, if time travel worked, possibly I could go back to a dimension at the beginning of time, watch Lucifer being kicked out of heaven, and do research for my comic! Like for instance, does the angel Gabriel really have a ponytail!}

Just ignore that... ^^;

[ruben]

Ninja said:

I agree with Jessica about this.

From a purely objective standpoint (that is, logical, analytical and totally emotionless), if you stopped every war that ever happened we'd be waaaaaay overpopulated here...

Dimensions are a bit too weird. Dimly possible, but why in the world would you want to send yourself to a totally different dimension? Oh, yay, dimension of ____. How do we get back now? What do dimensions have to do with time? If you send yourself to a totally different dimension in an attempt to change something (and there'll have to be a HUGE amount of dimensions for that, infinite actually, since every single action ever done will lead off into another totally different dimension, so every single action done by every single human being on the planet will be different. Heck, why stick to humans? Every action done by every animal down to the last sewer rat, down through all the generations will have a happy different dimension!), how the heck are you going to get back to your own dimension? So you'll have the dimension no. 2 you and the dimension no. 1 you stuck in one dimension, and in the other you just poofed.

The paradoxes just hurt my head...


_{But on the other hand, if time travel worked, possibly I could go back to a dimension at the beginning of time, watch Lucifer being kicked out of heaven, and do research for my comic! Like for instance, does the angel Gabriel really have a ponytail!}

Just ignore that... ^^;

Simple. You will probably not get back right in the same dimension, probably a few seconds diffrent, but that person exists in every dimension and he, in every dimension travels in time, so then we have a circle, and you will ALWAYS come back at the right spot.

- Ruben V.

[sollunaestrella]

Belgian said:

Simple. You will probably not get back right in the same dimension, probably a few seconds diffrent, but that person exists in every dimension and he, in every dimension travels in time, so then we have a circle, and you will ALWAYS come back at the right spot.

- Ruben V.

What do you mean by dimensions? Do you mean alternate realities created whenever somebody goes back in time and changes something? In that case, time travel to change the past would be completele pointless becuase everybody would keep on exactly the same in their own dimension.

It almost sounds like you're saying one dimension is one instant in time, which doesn't make much sense. The reason why people believe in the possibility of time travel is because time is its own single dimension in itself; if an object doesn't exist for a period of time, regardless of its three-dimensionality, then it doesn't exist. Obviously, we can move at will through three dimensions - and, if time is the fourth, then people believe that we should be able to move freely through it as well. Now, if time is made up of an infinite number of dimensions, it gets messy - you wouldn't be able to travel at will through dimensions but to dimensions instead.

And I had the exact same thought that Oily did the other day - that travel to the future might be possible but by that method travel to the past is not. If you go faster than the speed of light, why in heck would physics suddenly allow you to go backward when it's been throwing you forward whenever you've gone fast? And - I hold to this - to go faster than the speed of light is to be faster than material itself - and so one traveling that fast may cease to be material. Light is the universe's speed limit as of now. And we, mere humans, would be able to change that law of physics? I'm not sure if it's possible.

So to go into the past, what could we do? An object can't have a negative velocity in that sense (of course it can travel to the left or "down, but the negative value placed on those directions is completely arbitrary and the magnitude would stillbe the same as if it were traveling upward or to the right). An object can't have a speed less than zero. So to travel to the past, is that what we would have to do - get an object to move more slowly than lack of motion itself? A similar challenge to traveling faster than light.

[Oily]

Jessica said:

I will say this now.

...

I'm very firm on this and make this argument every time I discuss time travel.

I actually read a book like that. A tiny little action in the past had altered, so that Hitler died. Someone who was meant to have saved him on the battlefield later and died in the attempt ended up more evil than Hitler and was not defeated. It alternated between the two different futures, and the same man managed to leave a message for himself in another dimension by using a pigeon hole o_0 It was a little odd, but good.

And I really don't understand the dimensions argument. Plus, think of all the threats to our world that we might not even know about. A billion, trillion dimensions must be being born and destroyed every single millisecond, by the tiniest of our actions. Think of every single possible ramification - if I itch my cheek now, if I type this letter rather than that. I can't even comprehend that many dimensions...

[ghostision]

*Agrees /entirely/ with Jessica* If there was a suddenly such thing as a time machine, I'd go and smash it with a hammer, smash the person who built it with a hammer, then incinerate his notes. As interesting as your theory might be, Ruben, it's just that, a theory. We don't know what it will, or will not mess up, and is it really worth it? We'd be like cavemen, messing with things in the modern world: are you playing with a stove, or an atom bomb? How would a caveman know? We don't know what would happen if we mess up time, then there's that grandfather thing: if you go back in time and kill your grandfather, what would happen? Is it even possible, or would it mess up the universe? Somehow, I can't really imagine the universe being messed up by something like that.

I sort of consider time an escalator that builds a wall behind you, as it goes forward. You can hang on to something, or whatever, and maybe slow down a bit, (which I still doubt) but I don't think you can go back. The wall's already built. But then again, that's just my conception, and I'm wierd. Don't bother refuting this part, I don't take it seriously anyway.

And Oily, what book was it? I'm curious now.

[Jessica Coconut]

I'm glad that someone agree's with me. They should not exist. The only way it could be safe is if we knew exactly every peice of matter's place and current motives, and motives behind those motives and were watching every action and interaction everything makes, and knew the effects of what would happen if we took away or moved any amount of the group. Right down to the tiniest of Electrons. And there's no way we can know all that at once. Maybe even God above doesn't know for sure. We have no way of knowing and we should never risk altering forces we don't understand. That means Nature too for all of you Genetically-altering-happy-cloning-folk.

The world is in perfect balance right now. Why? Because time is supposed to be a constant, always moving forward. Never stopped, never going the wrong way, never speeding to fast or slow (though it often feels that way). Time doesn't seem to be distorted right now, but if it was, other dimensions would be distorted too.

[KittyKadaveral]

I know it probably just sounds cool that you COULD go back in time, but I know I wouldn't do it. Personally, I think things teach you in the present so you can be stronger in the future. I mean, I can sit here and feel horrible for yelling at a friend and they end up not speaking to me anymore, but would going back in time to repair that really solve anything? I think the reasoning behind this is you can't go back simply because you can't learn anything from your mistakes then. What's stopping you from say, robbing a bank and killing everyone, establish something and then going back to redo it? Pointless. Back to the friend thing, you keep those bad thoughts with you so perhaps in the future you know how to handle things differently. I know I can't take back any of the bad things I've said or done to my now exboyfriend, but I at least have those memories to know not to ever say or do those kind of things again to someone else.

::hopes that makes sense since her mind is muddled from the events that happened a few hours ago::

[Ikkin]

Heh, I'm getting into this time travel thing again... It's interesting, but drives me insane. I guess I'll just summarize some of the major 'theories' about what would happen if someone theoretically went back in time(although not really theories in the scientific sense, more along the lines of 'this would go good in my book,' since there would be little anyone could do to prove any of them) just to make things easier. So, here's my list (complete with examples!)

1) Continuous timeline, nothing changes (Harry Potter)
Basically, anything that a time-traveller changes has already been changed (for example the end of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, when pre-time travel Harry was saved by time travelling Harry's Patronus) It makes logical sense, (as much as time travel can) as it isn't really character based (I'll explain what I mean when discussing the other continuous timeline theory) and thus makes more sense for the real world (although I don't think past time travel is possible. It seems to preclude free will, although it does not necessarily have to. It wouldn't be totally worthless, as it might seem, (for example, going back to Harry, he would have had his soul taken if he hadn't travelled back in time) and there is no way the universe could get out of balance (which it could with the other continuous timeline theory) The biggest problem with this theory is how confusing it is!
Grandfather Problem: In this setup, it would be impossible to kill your grandfather before your father was born (or any uncles, either) because your interference would have happened before you were born anyways.

2) Continuous timeline, change possible (Sailor Moon )
In this theory, going back in time changes the future you come from. Very useful in stories, as it shows the changes the character makes easily, but it wouldn't really make sense for real life. It's sort of 'character based' if you will, making it's effect on the whole timeline at the same time as the things happen in the destination time (meaning there's a time outside of time, if that makes any sense!) I suppose, for this to make sense, the entire timeline must be at a single point in time outside of time itself, which, of course, makes no sense. Biggest problem: time inside time inside time.
Grandfather problem: Either you'd disappear at the exact point in time as your grandfather died, or the universe would implode. Neither option is nice.

3) Multiple timelines, change not possible within timelines (Dragon Ball Z)
In this setup, any changes in time creates a separate dimension in which the changes happened. There would not necessarily be infinite dimensions, (since there would not be infinite time travels) but at least as many dimensions as time travels. For example, as in DBZ, if you wanted to save someone so they could save the world, you could do that for a second timeline created by your time travel, but not in your own timeline. (Note-this isn't really done that well in DBZ, at least with the explanations [no explanation of how the timelines are navigated]) As long as there weren't infinite dimensions, and the technology wasn't used too much, however, navigating the timelines wouldn't be too difficult (if there were only two, and you had the technology, it should be rather simple) and you could get back to your own time without creating a new dimension, as long as you go by the 'time created as it comes' theory. Problem: creating separate universes.
Grandfather problem: You know how some people wonder what the world would be like if they were never born? Here's their chance to find out, in a totally separate world!

Just a poor attempt at some organization of theories. I know there are a lot more, but I just used the ones I've seen in action plotwise. A 'multiple timelines, change within timelines possible' would seem obvious, but it wouldn't really make too much sense.

[Killix]

EDIT: edit'd for more (or less) sense making ability

Ahh, good ol' time travel. I don't think humans will ever have the technology available to be able to time travel, and even if we did I think we wouldn't be able to go back any further in time than the day we were born. *cough Quantum Leap theory cough* Because we can't exist in a time where our parents weren't even born yet. (say goodbye to the grandfather theory)

It would be neat to be able to go back in time and see once and for all how life started, and what colours the dinosaurs really were

In a way, we arw time travelling and in a way we aren't. We exist and life goes on, but I don't think we are going forwards or backwards. Time isn't moving anwhere, it has nowhere to move. It just exists.
You may say "yeah but what about day and night?" The day and night is nothing, it is Earth spinning and the sun shining on it. The whole time system and concept of day and night is something we humans have invented to keep us organised.

Life is one continuous stream of time that never stops (or maybe it isn't moving at all) If that is true, time travel is impossible.

[ruben]

I want to make one thing sure for all of us: The harry potter theory is impossible. Yes, you can see anything 'impossible', but with this theory there is a missing link... How did it start the first time? Well, this will be hard to say in words, but: When they traveled back in time, they discovered that they actually already did it. And so it always went, continiously, but then... How did it once start? There must have been a first time... Or is did the first time just make a vicious circle?...

And to come back on my theory: There aren't infinite dimensions. But as soon as something happened that shouldn't have happened (like time traveling) another dimension unfolds. Like, if they tomorrow would to go the year 1990, they wouldn't go to this timeline's 1990 but they would go to a newly made dimension, resembling JUST the same, but only in another dimension...

- Ruben V.

[Deleted]

Belgian said:

I want to make one thing sure for all of us: The harry potter theory is impossible. Yes, you can see anything 'impossible', but with this theory there is a missing link... How did it start the first time? Well, this will be hard to say in words, but: When they traveled back in time, they discovered that they actually already did it. And so it always went, continiously, but then... How did it once start? There must have been a first time... Or is did the first time just make a vicious circle?...

And to come back on my theory: There aren't infinite dimensions. But as soon as something happened that shouldn't have happened (like time traveling) another dimension unfolds. Like, if they tomorrow would to go the year 1990, they wouldn't go to this timeline's 1990 but they would go to a newly made dimension, resembling JUST the same, but only in another dimension...

- Ruben V.

If alternate dimensions don't exist until you get to them, then how do you get to them in the first place?