Same Sex Marriages?

[Sirius]

Guest-Stal said:

You talk as if God still plays an extremely active role in civilization today. After the rejection He's gotten for hundred's of years, He's taken more of a hand's off role in the world. Let them spiral down to depravity, he'll work with those that care -- for the time being.

I hate how people act like that "Yeah, I'll spit on and curse God all I want, and everything bad that happens is his fault. Why did he let it happen? Why didn't he help out the people who have neglected and ignored his rules -- on purpose -- for so long?"



So can I go out and kill people? Go out and lie? Steal? Etc?

Aye, maybe I should have reworded it. It's the thing in your mind called common sense. Would you go out and kill someone? No. You'd be put in jail. Would you marry someone you love regardless of their gender? Yes. Sure, people may give you odd looks sometimes but it's nothing to go to jail for.

[irishdragonlord]

The said:

You missed my point. There is a separation of church and state because not all people are the same. Leave God out of this. You seem to be under the same impression as white slaveholders in the 1800's; they're different, and they are therefore inferior. That's not how it works. Do you think a black man chooses to be black? It's pretty hard not to accept that. You can tell yourself all you want you're not black, but when you look in the mirror your skin is still brown.

We live in a Caucasian-dominated society. And you still haven't answered my challenge.

Why shouldn't there be a constitutional amendment that disallows heterosexual couples from marrying? I'm playing the devil's advocate here.

If religion and morals are all you can think of, you have a very weak arguement.

Here we have two non-heterosexual forum members, and you are saying point-blank that they shouldn't be allowed to marry. Like they're not people. They are people, too. You seem to think they can choose. I guess that means I can choose too. Look, I'm straight. Bam, now I'm gay! Ooh, back to straight. Gay again! Straight again! Do you really think it works like that?

Do NOT tell me I think some people are inferior. I never have nor will. A lot of people believe in God, so their beliefs ARE influential, as much as everyone else's.

Also, I am sick and tired of people bringing up the ridiculous white-black prejudice argument. THEY HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON.

Your SKIN COLOR is genetic. People DO become gay sometimes. Skin DOESNT change.

Heterosexual marriages should be allowed becuase:

1. Without them, you wouldnt exist.
2. They are undeniably natural and a-ok.


I said it does NOT work like that - I said there are few if any people who could do that, make a conscious effort, and NONE who could switch just by saying it.

[aakfish]

I understand what you mean by saying people become gay but that isn't through choice. You say skin colour is genetic, well how do you no that homosexuality isn't?

[Stal]

Aak said:

I understand what you mean by saying people become gay but that isn't through choice. You say skin colour is genetic, well how do you no that homosexuality isn't?

Go show us proof that this Gay gene exists.

Scientists have yet to find it.

[william]

I'd like to know, what do the people here have against gay people's 'lifestyle'?

[Oily]

Guest-Stal said:

Go show us proof that this Gay gene exists.

Scientists have yet to find it.

Yet

Go show me proof hereditary cancer exists.

Scientists have yet to find all the genes for that.

IDL said:

Do NOT tell me I think some people are inferior. I never have nor will. A lot of people believe in God, so their beliefs ARE influential, as much as everyone else's.

Also, I am sick and tired of people bringing up the ridiculous white-black prejudice argument. THEY HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON.

Your SKIN COLOR is genetic. People DO become gay sometimes. Skin DOESNT change.

Heterosexual marriages should be allowed becuase:

1. Without them, you wouldnt exist.
2. They are undeniably natural and a-ok.

I said it does NOT work like that - I said there are few if any people who could do that, make a conscious effort, and NONE who could switch just by saying it.

Uh, yeah, I didn't really get your first bit. Are you saying that people are only important if they believe in God ?

Gay is not something that is necessarily a matter of choice. They found out that the amount of a particular hormone they are exposed to in the womb can determine your sexual orientation. I believe it's (at least mostly) genetic. And if some do choose, how do you know they're not just bisexual and turned their back on a life full of prejudice to pretend to be straight? How do you know they weren't just a little confused? I had a friend who thought she might be bi, but she decided she wasn't. That wasn't a conscious choice. It was a realisation.

And skin can change, but only in the same way gays can. By turning their backs on who they are in order to try and be accepted. Blacks used to try to bleach their skin whiter, often horribly scarring themselves. They were prejudiced against because of something they couldn't help. So are gays. Try telling someone to love someone else. You can't. They will anyway, whether they choose to accept it or not.

Heterosexual marriage is not necessary at all. You can procreate without it. In fact, everyone should be going round all over the place, mixing partners as much as possible so we can have a good genetic spread. And infertile couples shouldn't be allowed to marry, of course, because they don't further the human race. Without marriage, I would exist. As long as heterosexuals still procreate

Then you say they are undeniably natural and a-OK. How can you argue homosexuality isn't? It's pure bigotry to say otherwise.

Marriage is a question of love, not gender.

[aakfish]

If homosexuality was a choice I really doubt that one in ten people would choose to be gay. Also tell me where I said it was genetic, I just said there is no proof that it isn't gentic.

[althechia]

IDL said:

Do NOT tell me I think some people are inferior. I never have nor will. A lot of people believe in God, so their beliefs ARE influential, as much as everyone else's.

Also, I am sick and tired of people bringing up the ridiculous white-black prejudice argument. THEY HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON.

Your SKIN COLOR is genetic. People DO become gay sometimes. Skin DOESNT change.

Heterosexual marriages should be allowed becuase:

1. Without them, you wouldnt exist.
2. They are undeniably natural and a-ok.


I said it does NOT work like that - I said there are few if any people who could do that, make a conscious effort, and NONE who could switch just by saying it.

Hey there. To me, heterosexual sex is the most unnatural thing in the world. I'd like you to imagine, just for a minute, that there were more gay people in the world than straight. Imagine, for a moment, that only gay people were allowed to get married, and that heterosexuals were just left out in the cold. Would you follow the homosexually-tinted word of God and die feeling left out and forgotten, or would you DO something about it?

About without het sex, we woul not exist...not every child is made with heterosexual sex, either. There are many homosexual couples who have proven they can raise healthy, happy children, either by adoption, one partner inseminating a volunteer, or artificial insemination by a volunteer. What's sad is that often times the children feel isolated because they are not in a socially acceptable 'real' family, one with two married parents. To give them this would be a very valuable gift.

And I think gay and black rights are fair comparison. This really is just an issue of prejudice, just like the black civil rights movement and the women's equality movement. Blacks and women wanted to be seen as equals in the eyes of your God, in the eyes of the state, and in the eyes of everyone around them, which was at the time unthinkable, and now, is the norm. And that's exactly what we want.

EDIT: Oh, but you're STILL arguing that bi/homosexuality is a choice.

Some rather stupid people pretend to be bi or gay to get laid by straight people, or because it's 'cool', but in MOST CASES, it is NOT a choice. Get used to that.

[aakfish]

Classic said:

Hey there. To me, heterosexual sex is the most unnatural thing in the world. I'd like you to imagine, just for a minute, that there were more gay people in the world than straight. Imagine, for a moment, that only gay people were allowed to get married, and that heterosexuals were just left out in the cold. Would you follow the homosexually-tinted word of God and die feeling left out and forgotten, or would you DO something about it?

About without het sex, we woul not exist...not every child is made with heterosexual sex, either. There are many homosexual couples who have proven they can raise healthy, happy children, either by adoption, one partner inseminating a volunteer, or artificial insemination by a volunteer. What's sad is that often times the children feel isolated because they are not in a socially acceptable 'real' family, one with two married parents. To give them this would be a very valuable gift.

And I think gay and black rights are fair comparison. This really is just an issue of prejudice, just like the black civil rights movement and the women's equality movement. Blacks and women wanted to be seen as equals in the eyes of your God, in the eyes of the state, and in the eyes of everyone around them, which was at the time unthinkable, and now, is the norm. And that's exactly what we want.

EDIT: Oh, but you're STILL arguing that bi/homosexuality is a choice.

Some rather stupid people pretend to be bi or gay to get laid by straight people, or because it's 'cool', but in MOST CASES, it is NOT a choice. Get used to that.

Thank you Al for saying everything that I wanted to say but making more sense.

[Stal]

Oily said:

Yet

Go show me proof hereditary cancer exists.

Scientists have yet to find all the genes for that.

Ah, but you said all the genes. Scientists have found no genes for Homosexuality (because it doesn't exist. No God would create a gene like that and say "But you can't do it").

Will -- The people that have a problem with the Homosexual lifestyle are those that believe that it is wrong and a sin due to their Biblical beliefs. The Bible says what it says. Do you think God would sit around to let the true meaning of his word be edited by Bias of the time? No, I do believe he's maintained it throughout the years. And while there are extremely off-the-wall translations out there, they're still a huge minority that you have to look for to find.

And it is due to those beliefs, ones he hold to be true and right, that we say homosexuality is a sin and therefore wrong.

Saying it's not a choice doesn't make it true.

While that line can be turned back on me, I don't care. Only one of the positions can be right, and I know it's mine. Hehe.

[Jessica Coconut]

Guest-Stal said:

Ah, but you said all the genes. Scientists have found no genes for Homosexuality (because it doesn't exist. No God would create a gene like that and say "But you can't do it").

Will -- The people that have a problem with the Homosexual lifestyle are those that believe that it is wrong and a sin due to their Biblical beliefs. The Bible says what it says. Do you think God would sit around to let the true meaning of his word be edited by Bias of the time? No, I do believe he's maintained it throughout the years. And while there are extremely off-the-wall translations out there, they're still a huge minority that you have to look for to find.

And it is due to those beliefs, ones he hold to be true and right, that we say homosexuality is a sin and therefore wrong.

Saying it's not a choice doesn't make it true.

While that line can be turned back on me, I don't care. Only one of the positions can be right, and I know it's mine. Hehe.

I know this contradicts a lot, and I know I'm fighting on the wrong side (not wrong, I mean opposite, I'm against gay marraiges) but you're not considering one thing. You're forgetting that a lot of people don't believe in god. That's the major flaw with that one. But, it's about faith, so for those that believe, he exists.

But I'm against the gay gene idea too. Being gay isn't like a constant. It's more like, if you happen to be spending a lot of time with someone of your own sex, happen to get to know them quite intimately, you realise you love that person. You may have thought all your life you were straight. I don't think gays are ever 100%. There's got to be a little bi. Maybe even with straight folk. It's not a choice. But it's not genetic. I'm very firm when I say that Gays are CREATED, not BORN. You just grow up in such a way that you happened to end up liking someone of your own sex. Gays that haven't met a person of the opposite sex may just never meet the right person, so they don't know they could ever like someone of the opposite gender. You don't know if you could, but you do know that you like so and so, and they happen to be one of your own sex.

[Stal]

Jessica said:

I know this contradicts a lot, and I know I'm fighting on the wrong side (not wrong, I mean opposite, I'm against gay marraiges) but you're not considering one thing. You're forgetting that a lot of people don't believe in god. That's the major flaw with that one. But, it's about faith, so for those that believe, he exists.

But here's the thing...even with that it either is or isn't. I'm considering it, but just like on the subject, I think they're wrong (just as they think I'm wrong). But I'm not going to kittycat-foot around the fact that I think I'm right and say why so. If people disagree with me, fine. That's cool. But I think they're wrong. This is not an either/or or shades of gray for me. It's Black-and-white. So yeah, I'm considering it, I just don't care.

Al, commenting on something you said..."Blacks and women wanted to be seen as equals in the eyes of your God, in the eyes of the state, and in the eyes of everyone around them, which was at the time unthinkable, and now, is the norm."

There's nothing in the Bible that even states that being a woman or being Black is wrong or makes you inferior. Yes, it talks of women submitting to their husband, but that is not in an inferior sense if you actually read it how it's intended.

But the Bible says outright that Homosexuality is a sin. God has said it. So, to be frank, there's little chance you'll be "accepted as okay" by God. Maybe by society, but by society's standards pornography and fornication are a-ok. They're not to God. Those behaviors and lifestyles are wrong and sinful. So, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I thought your statement a little odd and had to comment.

[aakfish]

Well as a Christian I am against all prejudice, and that includes people who are homophobic. I think being homophobic is as bad as racism or sexism.

[Stal]

Aak said:

Well as a Christian I am against all prejudice, and that includes people who are homophobic. I think being homophobic is as bad as racism or sexism.

Homophobia means a Fear of homosexuals, FYI. Just because you disagree with one's lifestyle does not mean you hate them or fear them. I tolerate 'em, no problem. I have friends that are bi/lesbian! But do I support their lifestyle and accept it? Not at all.

[aakfish]

Guest-Stal said:

Homophobia means a Fear of homosexuals, FYI. Just because you disagree with one's lifestyle does not mean you hate them or fear them. I tolerate 'em, no problem. I have friends that are bi/lesbian! But do I support their lifestyle and accept it? Not at all.

I wasn't talking about you, I was just generally talking about some people.