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Post by Carolyn on May 4, 2014 11:15:42 GMT -5
Many writers (and heck, why limit it to just writers? Artists deal with the same) suffer from at least some self doubt in our work. Even at our best, a nagging voice often says we're never going to be good enough, no matter how hard we try. Then comes the temptation to give up, to give in, to quit trying because the effort isn't worth our time.
Can self-doubt and self-criticism it be healthy sometimes?
When does it become unhealthy?
In what ways have you worked on quieting this voice, if it does become a problem?
And a followup question: what should one feel about their own work? How should that be expressed to others?
I'd just love to see everyone's opinion on this topic since self-evaluation in and of itself isn't inherently a negative thing, but I think it has its limitations.
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Post by Ian Wolf-Park on May 4, 2014 12:28:56 GMT -5
Definitely self-critiquing your own work has its limitations as we're all biased in some form when we're critiquing, so we're bound to miss some things other people may see.
Most of the time, we will make revisions to our stories based on those self criticisms, and that's a good thing, especially when it comes to glaring or obvious errors. For example, some of my non-NT works looked good written down on paper as it appeared to be a couple of pages (double-sided, of course), but typed up was a different story (no pun intended) as those pages ended up being significantly reduced. My story pacing was far too fast to my liking, so I had to essentially expand that single page typed up in order to slow down the pace, but I wasn't even aware of that until those stories were typed and the errors came to light. Then again, those stories were done while I was still in high school and since then, I have made significant improvements.
Were there times I doubted my own writing abilities? You bet. Did that stop me? No. We can't give in to those self doubts and that's where self-critiquing comes in handy as it will stop those nagging voices (at least, for a while until they appear again).
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Post by PFA on May 4, 2014 13:47:36 GMT -5
This is kind of an interesting topic for me, because I'm like... one of those weird writers/artists who's actually not all that critical of my own work? XD; Like, I get really excited about my stories and characters, and I enjoy going back and reading my own stories because they mean a lot to me. I know a lot of people who will look back on their old writing and go "AHHH IT BURNS" or whatever, but I do that for fun and laugh at what's changed and how much I've improved since then. :'B
I mean, I'm not saying I ignore my flaws altogether. There's definitely worth in being aware of your flaws, because how else are you going to improve on them? But beating yourself up over them or getting really depressed about it isn't really a healthy outlook, IMO. I find it a lot more fulfilling to enjoy your own writing, and if there are flaws, well... it's your story, you can improve it.
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Post by Breakingchains on May 4, 2014 13:55:20 GMT -5
Self-doubt is universal and healthy, but you have to be its boss, not the other way around. Rejecting it totally will make you act like a narcissist (and it'll just come back anyway), while wallowing in it will paralyze you; your job is to rein it in, hone it to the point where it can spot your own mistakes coming a mile away and then make it your new bestest best friend.
Fact is, we will all have bad ideas. My writing would be pure garbage if it wasn't for that "inner editor" that tells me when my ideas are bad. I just have to take what it says and then jump on it: Well, okay, yeah, this plot point is pretty dumb. Looks like its for reasons X, Y and Z. Let's see, if we throw in this and throw out that... The key is to not get bogged down.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2014 13:57:59 GMT -5
Many writers (and heck, why limit it to just writers? Artists deal with the same) suffer from at least some self doubt in our work. Even at our best, a nagging voice often says we're never going to be good enough, no matter how hard we try. Then comes the temptation to give up, to give in, to quit trying because the effort isn't worth our time. Can self-doubt and self-criticism it be healthy sometimes? When does it become unhealthy? In what ways have you worked on quieting this voice, if it does become a problem? And a followup question: what should one feel about their own work? How should that be expressed to others? I'd just love to see everyone's opinion on this topic since self-evaluation in and of itself isn't inherently a negative thing, but I think it has its limitations. Ehhhh… It's kind of odd, because for me, most of the time my writing is a reflection of the "movie" I "see" in my mind, and I'm just translating it. I don't do active construction nearly as often. I'll bet it shows, because introductions and conclusions annoy me relentlessly. I don't usually give up, but I can change my mind repeatedly. It is frustrating if I'm not getting anywhere, though that's more of a motivation and time management issue than anything else. :B It helps me to remember that it's all just in fun, and hey, no one's making me write this or enforcing a deadline. (This only works for non-school, non-work things, of course.) Art is a different matter. I'm acutely aware that my hand-eye coordination isn't the best. Furthermore, I have a very limited amount of patience and I get bored easily. After taking an art class at the college level, I am even more convinced that my problem is more in a lack of practice, coupled by a lack of patience, commitment, and willingness to just draw and be okay if something's not perfect. I'm okay with this. At least I know where I'm at and why. |
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Post by Komori on May 4, 2014 16:17:13 GMT -5
Many writers (and heck, why limit it to just writers? Artists deal with the same) suffer from at least some self doubt in our work. Even at our best, a nagging voice often says we're never going to be good enough, no matter how hard we try. Then comes the temptation to give up, to give in, to quit trying because the effort isn't worth our time. Can self-doubt and self-criticism it be healthy sometimes? When does it become unhealthy? In what ways have you worked on quieting this voice, if it does become a problem? And a followup question: what should one feel about their own work? How should that be expressed to others? I'd just love to see everyone's opinion on this topic since self-evaluation in and of itself isn't inherently a negative thing, but I think it has its limitations. Well, there's a very significant mindset between "I'm not good," and "I'll never be good." It's the difference between being objective of your own skill level, and using that information to project about the future. Everyone improves with practice, so the key is going to be whether or not you believe that. The other difference is how much you've attached your identity with your ability. Can you separate your skills from yourself? Can you change your thinking from "I'm not good at dancing," to "My dancing technique isn't good." The distinction is subtle, but significant. The former, you're trying to improve your entire self; the latter, you're focusing on aspect of yourself. The key is objectivity, not just in yourself, but in the outside world, and being able to separate the ideas of technique and skillsets. This is particularly important when comparing yourself to others. It's easy to say, "Oh, I'm not as good as Bob." But break it down, and be honest but generous with yourself. "Bob's ability to paint realistic portraits is above mine." "However, I think I'm better than Bob at capturing expression." (or drawing animals, or coming up with more interesting subject matter, or whatever). The truth is, no one is good at everything. Your skills and their spread are going to be different from everyone else. So look at what you've got going for yourself that no one else has, and take heart. I look at my own work, and I know I'm definitely deficient in painting, but I'm above average in animation. But even in animation, I have coworkers who're better than I, so I try to focus on honing that skill, and finding time to work on my painting as well. My friend is insanely-better at animation than I am (she's worked for Disney and Blue Sky), but muuuch weaker than I am at tellling a story in drawing (ie, comics/comic strips). Also I'd like to think I've got some pretty decent sculpture talents in my pool. My talent-spread is broader than hers, but hers is hyper focused in one ability. But both of us skew to entertainment-art, and could never hack it in fine arts. It's all about learning about yourself, being objective and honest about your abilities, and retaining some optimism about what you're good at and what you can put more work in to learn. (Also know that you don't have to be the best at something to succeed in a career at that something.  I've got a TON more to learn about animation, but I still get paid to do it! ) But I know that's tough. Creative-types often have a difficult time being so objective. Just add that to your list of skills to learn! |
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Post by Shinko on May 4, 2014 19:40:48 GMT -5
It has been said that "Art is never finished, only abandoned." If I waited until I was completely satisfied with something I wrote or drew to publish it nothing would ever escape my personal hard drive. XD
Recognizing and acknowledging your own flaws is perfectly healthy. It isn't fun getting endlessly frustrated with stuff because it doesn't live up to the expectations in your brain, but we have to set the bar high because if we don't strive against our own limitations (and inevitably fail a few times in the process) we'll never improve. Heck, even things I liked at the time I posted them up, within a few days I was noticing a billion little mistakes I wanted to fix. And that's not even getting into the mistakes that other people will inevitably call attention to.
The trick is to accept that yes, there are aspects of your work you aren't satisfied with, and move forward from them. I can't even begin to count the people who've, say, started a webcomic series, gotten twenty pages in and then decided the art on the early pages sucks and started completely over. And they keep doing this. The story never gets finished, and eventually they get frustrated and give up because they are so fixated on achieving perfection they lose sight of the simple joy of creation. Maybe it's the fact that I'm a hobby artist and not a professional, but in my mind if you aren't having fun then something has gone horribly awry.
And honestly? I love seeing the old artwork and stories from years and years ago- or heck, even from a few months ago. Do they suck? Oh boy yes. But at the time I thought they were the best thing ever. The fact that I can look back at them and know that they suck, and know why, and look at what I'm doing now and see how much better it is, tells me that I'm improving. Even if you don't necessarily notice it when you're struggling with a particular character's motivation, or can't get the shading on your drawing to look just so, as long as you are creating you are improving. Always.
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Post by Coaster on May 4, 2014 20:31:45 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm coming at this mostly from the art perspective, but there's a huge difference between "enough" and "perfect". "Enough" is something that you really need to get to before you start showing it off like it's the best thing in the world, and of course its standard will vary depending on what you're doing with it, but you really shouldn't stay there. "Perfect" is impossible but theoretically an easy goal to work towards (just, y'know, get better and stuff!) as long as you're aware of ways you can improve or keep up practice or something. So basically be super nitpicky about things until it's "enough", then just raise your standard little-by-little from there. Things like "don't let your newer work be unquestionably worse than your previous work if you can help it". For example, I would always get TMGE'd for NT entries for the longest time because, frankly, my art was terrible and the ideas weren't hot stuff anyways. I stepped it up a few notches for a series and finally managed to make it good "enough" to get in, though. Now I look back at those early ones and cringe at some of the horrible lighting and posing and models and hair and whatnot, and I know there are still plenty of unresolved glaring weaknesses in newer things, but it's easier to look through and say "Hey, that was a major improvement at point x in terms of y" and such than if I'd just trashed the old stuff and rebooted every time. If you want another example, just compare the first "official" Nuzlocke comic strip with the newest one. Similar style, MAAASSIVE improvement by the time the first "sequel" was wrapping up. On that topic, as Shinko just mentioned, seeing your progress really helps, and pinpointing areas where you need to improve or have improved drastically in the past. And, of course, getting reasonable critique from others can be helpful when you honestly don't know what's up with your own work; everyone needs a second opinion. As I mentioned in the first paragraph, you really shouldn't show it off as if it's the best thing in the world, but you can be (reasonably) proud of a major improvement, in my opinion. |
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Post by Stephanie (swordlilly) on May 5, 2014 1:57:24 GMT -5
Time is the best cure, I think. If I'm working on something and it feels like a totally hopeless piece of crap that will never be done, I'll just shelve it for a few months. Sometimes when I revisit an old idea, it actually seems salvageable. I have a bit more emotional distance and new knowledge I've gained in the meantime to try and fix it again.
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Post by Komori on May 5, 2014 14:32:02 GMT -5
Time is the best cure, I think. If I'm working on something and it feels like a totally hopeless piece of crap that will never be done, I'll just shelve it for a few months. Sometimes when I revisit an old idea, it actually seems salvageable. I have a bit more emotional distance and new knowledge I've gained in the meantime to try and fix it again. Mm, I'm not much of a fixing person. If I set something aside for more than a month, I'd sooner start over from scratch than try and salvage it. XD (Unless it's a commission. I'll just power through those, because most of the time the various steps have already been approved by the commissioner) I personally can't stand futzing with something for too long. Better for me to just call it done and move on than dump more time into something that was built on a weak (relative to my current skills) foundation. |
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Post by TJ Wagner on May 5, 2014 17:12:50 GMT -5
I know there has been many times where I'll work on a story (or a drawing) and at first I'll be happy with it. Over time, however, I start seeing all the mistakes or those things that could have been better and I will end up almost hating it. Being honestly critical of your own work is great and can lead to growth, but it's so easy to go too far and be overly critical.
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Post by Chao on May 6, 2014 17:04:43 GMT -5
Self-criticism is a good tool as it makes one want to get better. However, it should never grow so much that it stops one from sharing one's work with others. A lot of things I write are written just for fun and while I don't think they are spectacular, a lot of people think they are good enough to leave me a note telling me so. There are a few pieces I really love and often people just don't love them as much as I do, mostly ignoring those works. Does it make me love them less? No. There are very few works I've written which I'm disappointed with, but I shared it with others nontheless, to see if my gut-feeling was right. After more than ten years of regular writing, I can say:
I know I can still improve
If I am impressed with something I wrote, chances are people won't get it
If I like what I wrote and had fun writing it, chances are other people will also like it
Which doesn't mean the work couldn't be improved further
If I don't like what I wrote and it was not so much fun, chances are other people will notice that
In which case it would take more than a truck load of hard work to get it fixed, so I prefer to move on to the next project
And it takes a very rare project which captures me enough that I actually sit down to edit it to the point where I think it's as good as I can make it
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Post by Nut on May 24, 2014 5:54:35 GMT -5
Self-criticism is useful if it's moving you forward, useless if it's holding you back.
Criticizing your work is essential while you're in the process of making it. "This part feels off/this needs to be fixed/there needs to be some more detail here/this part isn't even necessary" is the type of thought that makes your work better when you're editing it.
The type of self-criticism that's unhealthy is the kind along the lines of "I'll never be good enough at this/I shouldn't bother showing my stuff to anyone" that discourages you from continuing to try.
I quiet the voice by reminding myself that it makes me happy whenever my favorite artists post new work and there are many others out there who are the same way, so someone out there will probably enjoy whatever I put up even if I'm not completely satisfied with it.
There are a lot of different ways to feel about one's own work. I know people who just churn out work after work and all they care about is making it live up to their standards, calling it done and moving on to the next thing. I also know people for whom every work has a very personal meaning and story behind it and it's a way of sharing their experiences and feelings with others. I don't think there's one way anyone "should" feel about their own work. Among both creators and audiences, there are the people who judge more strictly on technical skill and there are the people who are more swayed by what speaks to them personally, and as long as a creator continues to produce work an audience will gravitate towards them according to what they value most.
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Post by Yoyti on May 25, 2014 14:52:05 GMT -5
I just remembered this video. Joyce DiDonato, incredibly awesome Mezzo, gave a master class at Julliard, and incorporated this little speech. She's talking about singing, but, with a few tweaks, it applies to other art forms as well, including writing. |
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I've got a TON more to learn about animation, but I still get paid to do it! 
