|
Post by Enn on Aug 9, 2012 8:56:47 GMT -5
D: It appears to have been so long since I was last active that I even forgot we had a 'location' thing in our profiles! The only info I can find for Denmark is this report which says, unfortunately, there are no benefit fraud figures for Denmark, but mentions that British and Swedish figures show an average of 2-4% of benefit payments are fraudulent or incorrect. This report suggests total benefit fraud and error (combined) in New Zealand of 2.7% and Canada of 3%-5%. Almost all of the figures seem to be in this general area. I've found no proof that benefit fraud is as widespread, rampant and damaging as the media (The Daily Mail over here essentially) makes out, although it is obviously something that needs to be countered. And again, nothing linking youth in any way to these figures; these are for people of all ages claiming benefits. Well, I found some info myself. Though, it's in Danish, so I hope you will take my word for it when I just translate it to English in my own words. Apparently the Danish welfare system is cheated for roughly 12 billion kroner a year (devide by 6 to get in US dollars) - and this is a country with only 5,5 million inhabitants. They estimate that every 18. student over 18, has cheated with the benefits and received the money even though they weren't studying. In one city alone, 15 students (under the age of 25) had cheated for 600,000 kroner by stating that they lived on their own, when they still lived with their parents. Those are pretty high numbers for a small country. And it irks me when I hear teens over here, bashing the government for not doing enough for them. They have so many options, but seem to lack the drive to explore them and work hard to achieve them. I know it sounds like I'm generalizing, but I'm only referring to the youths who are '90% words and 10% action' and seems to find comfort in complaining. All I'm saying is, that if they -have- the means to do something about it, they should. Could you link to the source you used? I can't find anything on the subject whatsoever, and it may also include the total kroner spent a year on this social security- 12 billion kroner sounds a lot, but if it was out of 1.2 trillion it'd be a far different matter, for example. I'm not sure what you mean by "every 18. student over 18, has cheated with the benefits and received the money even though they weren't studying." I think that may be some translation error- students who aren't studying, and 100% of students cheating, is what I'm reading there. The horror story of the 15 students is bad- although unless it's an extremely small city or a different standard is applied to cities there, 15 people is a tiny amount- but there are horror stories in the news here all the time. They usually lack any context or overall view and aim to scare the populace about benefit fraud. I haven't personally noticed a focus on under-25s in the tabloids here, and a search of 'The Daily Mail "Benefit Fraud"' on Google pops up results for men and women of all ages- one was 24, another 47, 58. Ultimately these stories are meant to push an agenda, and don't discuss the fact that it's only 2% of people who are claiming incorrectly. Of course there are teens and young people who claim benefits incorrectly, who complain about the government (I'd be more concerned if all the youth were happily humming along under the government!) and talk about a lack of opportunities. Some of them have plenty of opportunity and squander, but under the topic of benefit fraud there is no statistic saying that it's young people who are more likely to fraudulently claim benefits, and a select horror story isn't enough to show that link. Benefit fraud as its own topic is interesting and involved and an important matter to tackle. Bringing it up in a thread about 'youth today', a thread headed by the article you've chosen and with your comments about 'moochers', with absolutely no link between young people and benefit fraud, is misleading. There are wasted opportunities and lazy idiots in all generations, and that's always a disappointment, but your point that "if they -have- the means to do something about it, they should" applies to everyone, not just young people. It's great to try and encourage anyone to stop being lazy and do something about their situation, but that's a whole different topic from the issue of claiming social security / benefits fraud.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2012 9:20:04 GMT -5
I'm going to get back to you on that one, Nick. I'm a little swamped for the rest of the day. Just so you don't think I've backed out of the debate.
|
|
|
Post by Fang of the Dead on Aug 9, 2012 9:39:37 GMT -5
I'd say this generation is downright nice compared to the generation of politicians we're stuck with now. I can count the politicians who aren't corrupt, greedy liars on one hand, and there's only one example of a good, honest man in politics I can think of (Obama, of course) off hand.
And then there are the OTHER people in power from that generation; executives. There are very few executives who have anything resembling morals.
|
|
|
Post by Komori on Aug 9, 2012 12:08:12 GMT -5
XDDDD "Very few executives," Fang? Don't you realize that "executive" is a term that could mean the head of EVERY SINGLE COMPANY in existence? So, considering how many companies exist on this planet, to say that "very few executives have morals" is downright silly. The head of the anim company I work for is an "executive producer," and he's quite the awesome guy. The head of the company my mom works for is an "executive" something-or-other, and he's given her and her coworkers three raises in the last two years.
Executive is just the leader of the company. They're people like anyone else, and there's no reason to assume just because you have employees you suddenly become devoid of morals.
Really, don't just fall into the lazy trap of accusing "the man" of being evil and greedy. XDDDD
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2012 13:06:20 GMT -5
I read it, and to me it seems to be not a message against selfishness.
It's basically saying, "we're going to leave you out to lunch even if you really do need help."
All kids hear today from their parents is how they shouldn't dream big and how they shouldn't expect to have the life they want. That scares them to death and leaves them asking, "How can I be happy? What do I do?" And this response says, "Forget your happiness. You're a laborer and nothing else."
Ouch.
The songstress in me wants to give this person a stern talking to. Parents, step aside and don't berate your children. Don't scare them into being virtually helpless. Don't tell them they're being selfish just because they don't want to live a life where you don't have any fun. Encourage them to follow their dreams. Help them to become the best whatever they can be (excluding criminal lifestyles, of course). A child told by their parents that they deserve to have fun and have a happy future isn't going to resent helping around the house. Chores are not someone's whole life. I do chores without looking at it like enslavement because my parents have told me that I'm allowed to have a life outside of them.
|
|
|
Post by Breakingchains on Aug 9, 2012 17:33:58 GMT -5
Sae, it's not about doing chores. It's about being willing to take some knocks to make things better, for both yourself and others. I think what the writer is saying is that kids today can't handle discouragement or pain or being denied anything. As for pursuing dreams, that's one place it becomes a massive problem, because pursuing any dream involves wanting it enough to fight for it. It involves moments of pain, moments of discouragement. I will have them as a writer, you will have them as a singer--if kids don't realize that, they won't be ready to achieve their dreams at all.
I don't really see many parents telling kids not to follow their dreams. (Side note: when I do, it's usually because the parent is worried the kid will end up broke trying to make a living off what they want to do. Doesn't necessarily make it right, but it's not necessarily an attempt to be nasty, either.) What I usually see is... kind of worse, and it ties into the real issue here quite heavily. If a kid has been raised being told to follow their dreams and that they can achieve them, that's great--but often they're told it for the wrong reasons. Parents don't teach them to be persistent and brave and have a strong work ethic. They tell them they can have anything they want, no ifs, ands, or buts. That they're vaguely "special" in some way they don't control. What you end up with is a lazy, unmotivated, overentitled human being waiting for the world to drop everything in their lap, angry and frustrated when it doesn't, and lacking the skills to earn it or make life any better for themselves or anyone else. That final product, I think, is what the writer is criticizing here.
On the broader subject, while I understand that it's common to every generation to go, "OH, GOD, WHAT IS HAPPENING TO OUR CHILDREN!?" and run around like chickens with their heads cut off, I think it's also important to not take that fact as too much of a reassurance, either. Cultures do change. Not always for the better. The lesson we should take from that, rather, is not to be alarmist about it.
I'm not sure where the writer is from, but I think his statements apply at least to the USA's youth quite well. I've been afflicted by the same selfishness and laziness and fear of difficulty myself, and seen it painfully frequently in others in my age group. I'm sure it's got a whole spectrum of causes, and we can't turn back time and change the conditioning that led my generation to sort of suck, but I think there's hope in the fact that human beings are adaptable, flexible creatures. Some people are going to fall apart when reality slaps them in the face, but I think that at some point down the line, most of us will absorb that reality check, regain our equilibrium, and rally ourselves.
|
|
|
Post by Crystal on Aug 9, 2012 18:41:59 GMT -5
I think that in the end it really depends on who you're talking about here. xD People are way too different to paint with such a broad stroke as "All youth", or "All teenagers", or even "Most youth".
I know tons of people who are completely unlike the generalization made by the writer, like Teow, Nick and several others on this thread have stated. But it really is also a fact that the mindset of being a lazy, unmotivated, overentitled human being (as Breakingchains puts it) most definitely does exist and is a problem. I don't think it's quite as much of a problem as the author is making out to be... but then again, maybe I just don't hang out with the right people.
It seems to me that the author of that article has just unfortunately seen way too much of the wrong ones.
|
|
|
Post by jdb1984 on Aug 9, 2012 21:48:51 GMT -5
If I ever have kids, after they get old enough to have regular chores, I'll make sure they understand the importance of saving up for what you want, and knowing that they will have to work for the money.
Want that new video game? Okay, do your chores and save your allowance up. Or maybe you can do something for that nice lady across the street.
They will get gifts for their birthday and Christmas, of course. But I'm going to make sure they do chores to earn the allowance they get, and make sure they learn that if you want something, you'll have to work for it. That's the real world, and they have to learn it sooner rather than later.
|
|
|
Post by Fang of the Dead on Aug 11, 2012 21:19:50 GMT -5
XDDDD "Very few executives," Fang? Don't you realize that "executive" is a term that could mean the head of EVERY SINGLE COMPANY in existence? So, considering how many companies exist on this planet, to say that "very few executives have morals" is downright silly. The head of the anim company I work for is an "executive producer," and he's quite the awesome guy. The head of the company my mom works for is an "executive" something-or-other, and he's given her and her coworkers three raises in the last two years. Executive is just the leader of the company. They're people like anyone else, and there's no reason to assume just because you have employees you suddenly become devoid of morals. Really, don't just fall into the lazy trap of accusing "the man" of being evil and greedy. XDDDD Good point, Komori, but I'm talking the executives of, say, the oil industry, or Chris Dodd of the MPAA.
|
|
|
Post by Artemis on Aug 29, 2012 19:03:56 GMT -5
May I reply to this late? (if I can't, message me or just delete it or such) Speaking as a part of "youth today" (I'm 15), I agree that many kids, at least my age, can whine, complain, etc. Hey, even I complain, and I can absolutely feel the need to pick an argument trickling down my spine. It is literally in our nature. Yes, there are a lot of whiners and complainers and jobless louts feeding off tax money... but there are also a lot of mature teenagers and adults holding down a job and going to college. It's a normal phase. Just give it some time- trust me, I don't like to hear it either. XD
|
|