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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2011 12:51:57 GMT -5
Hey, guys! 8D Discussion of the week! Or, rather, month. Do you tend to stick to particular character types? Are there certain characters you prefer writing and some you can't stand? What do you mean by... character types? Now that I think about it, yeah, I was generalizing too much. XD; It's a little hard to sort characters into types and categories.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2011 13:10:09 GMT -5
On the other extreme, I can't write (or often read) MCs who are evil, sociopathic, focused only on themselves and their own desires, or extremely dark anti-heroes-- if they see no problem with being so. There has to be something admirable about them on a moral level, if only the desire to become a better person and the knowledge that they're not. I can't root for them otherwise. As for character types I tend to stick to: I seem to cover a pretty wide range of types. I do write a lot of outcasts and "freaks", and characters looking for some kind of redemption are a common thing in my work. I also have a fair number of criminals and ex-criminals, many of them violent. I'm the same way. My heroes are just that - heroes. Now, characters like my take on Xandra are fun for me to write, too. That feeling of internal struggle. Also, one of my charries, Repleka, is kind of a loner and she's a Dark Faerie, but she's not evil. Even she has a warm heart. She cares a lot about her adopted family. I kind of found that I like her reclusiveness - it makes for an interesting character. Now, on the other hand, about the dark anti-hero thing, the closest character I would have to that is Fiyeri, who's not really evil, she's just stuck-up. (And even she is very loving and warm with her little sister)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2011 16:33:44 GMT -5
I have tried and failed to write purely comedic characters. That just doesn't work for me. And while I like some of my gentler characters, I find they don't do anything out of the ordinary. As such, they don't really get as much screen time, because it's not interesting to write about them.
I tend to be drawn to characters who can be a bit broody and/or haunted by something in their past. Doesn't (and usually isn't) have to be a constant thing, but one of the more defining features… I've been told I write for them very well.
My villains tend to be a bit flat and predictable, but that's actually intentional. They represent -one- aspect of being, and rarely deviate from that. (Also they've found their methods successful and see no reason to change, though occasionally new things are revealed about them.)
One of my favorite characters I've written for was a certain interpretation of Quickman as heard in The Quick and the Blue by The Megas. I wrote out things for all of those Robot Masters and I loved it. "Villain Protagonist" is what the style is called, I believe? That was really fun to write, even though I knew the character was doomed from the beginning. (If you're interested in more, I can link you.)
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Post by Fang of the Dead on Jan 13, 2012 22:36:40 GMT -5
Hmmmm... I like to write villains that are really, REALLY evil. Granted, the only Complete Monsters I write about are Kass, Galem and Razul; I turned Scarblade into a vengeful fallen hero, and Xandra, well... She was traumatized as a child courtesy of an evil Faerie (Jennumara, perhaps?) laying waste to her home town for kicks, leaving her orphaned. I think I'll focus on Kass for this post, though.
Kass, I'd say, is the most out-and-out evil of my villains; he's not just a greedy thug like Galem, or a wanna-be god like Razul; he's a sociopath, through and through. I also write him as being younger than I believe Neo intended him to be - to me, he's at most in his mid-twenties. He's able to manipulate others easily, he has no empathy or compassion, and he's willing to hurt whoever he needs to achieve his goals. His major foible is that, deep down, he's essentially a spoiled child; his parents never really bonded with him. Oh, sure, he got a lot of good things, but he never learned how valuable people and bonds are - to him, an actual bond with someone is as alien a concept as flying is to a sea slug. Thus, when things go bad for him, he tends to go into Villainous Breakdown mode - and becomes even MORE destructive and irate. Gone is his usual cold, sardonic demeanor. Here, the raging monster he truly is reveals itself through his actions. He's at once brilliant, yet petulant - he's an expert tactician, but he can become so focused on getting revenge on those who he thinks have wronged him, he'll be blind to his own faults. He reasons as the Lord of the Citadel, he should get whatever he wants and be able to do whatever he wants. So, yeah, basically a spoiled yet brilliant brat who's all grown up.
Galem... I haven't really thought out his characterization beyond "thug who's smart/brutal enough to claw his way to the top, but still not Genre Savvy enough to realize he shouldn't trust Masila."
Razul is completely one-dimensional in my mind - I like to write him as being obsessed with his perceived godhood, and he refuses to stop ranting about how "The entire Desert should worship ME!"
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2013 13:38:12 GMT -5
~~RÉSURRECTION~~
Discussion of the Week/Month: What do you see as your biggest weaknesses in writing characters?
For me, it's extraversion and likability. I'm a natural shy person, so I'm lost when it comes to writing folks near the other end of the continuum. If I do write a more outgoing character, they make be more in the middle than anything. Lots of people alternate between one or the other, or are a blend of the two, but...well, I do need to write more diverse characters. On that note, I have very flawed characters, which I often overdo to the point that they're just not likable. Likability isn't everything, obviously, but it can make the work much more compelling.
How about you guys?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2013 16:42:28 GMT -5
Well, this sure looks like a fun thread!
Nat, might it help to study people who are extroverted? This could range from people you know in real life and have a chance to observe often, to (although less realistic) extroverted characters in well-written media that you enjoy. It might help to at least determine how an extroverted person would actually act in a situation, even if understanding the extrovert mentality itself is difficult. Don't be afraid to allow characters to speak up, act out, and do things that you would never do in a social situation, because it's just going to add more variety to your cast. In something I'm writing right now, I have an outrageous blabbermouth of a character who also lets her temper run away with her far more often than it should, and she's proven one of the most entertaining characters in the entire project.
As for likability, I prefer to use the idea of sympathy. I think it's more important to have sympathetic characters than likable ones--especially because it's really difficult to predict what makes a character likable to a wide range of readers (unless you're writing for a very specific demographic). Rather, I would focus on just making characters as "human" (in a metaphorical sense) as possible--give them real feelings, motivations, fears, aspirations. The deeper you dig into a character's psyche, the more readers will be able to identify with them on one level or another. Along that same line of thought, giving characters an extensive list of flaws without many - or any - redeeming qualities will make them less realistic (because in reality, people tend to have pretty balanced personalities unless they have severe mental health issues). It also runs the risk of making them seem too melodramatic or trying to force pity from the reader, both of which are really uncomfortable things to encounter in a story. Intelligent readers would much rather mentally engage with characters on the readers' own terms, not be spoon-fed what to think about the characters.
I think I have a hard time writing graceful, well-paced character development over an extended narrative. When there's a character who's supposed to gradually change, I tend to a) keep them static until an important plot event where they have an epiphany, b) just plain keep them static because they're never given any impetus for change, or c) forget that they were even struggling with something in the first place, which is even worse when it comes and goes from scene to scene. I'm generally pretty good at having a character be one way at the beginning of a long story and be another way by the end, but it's the ironing-out of the in-between that has me concerned.
For example, in an extremely long-form project a friend and I are working on, I'm writing a character (we'll call her A) who feels like she's failed her subordinates and isn't living up to the weighty responsibilities thrust on her, and feels like a helpless and ineffectual leader in spite of her best efforts. It doesn't exactly help that in the situation A and her group are in, most of the responsibility for their survival and the carrying out of their goal have been forcibly handed over to another, far more capable group, and A and her group are severely out of their element, which just makes A feel even more inadequate. I want to show A slowly progressing toward regaining confidence in her leadership abilities and becoming an even stronger leader than she was before, but I'm not quite sure how to do that in a gradual and realistic manner.
A has a policy of not leaving anyone behind while the group is on the move and forces herself to always be the last one to rest, but recently I had her finally acquiesce to leave matters in the hands of her team of deputies, and I'm not sure if this is too soon, or might be construed as my having forgotten about these issues she's been facing, because it's been less than a week since the traumatic events that gave A this mindset. It also doesn't help that she was convinced to do it by a character who's already borderline Mary Sue (let's call her B) and I don't like the idea of a woman half A's age, and with no combat experience, giving A helpful advice and solving everyone's problems all happy-sparkly-magical. (I don't really like B, but unfortunately my friend seems to think she's a great character.) Am I just being hypercritical of my own writing again, or is this a legitimate issue that needs addressing?
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Post by PFA on Dec 12, 2013 17:04:11 GMT -5
I have no problems writing characters, my characters are perfect :I *brick'd*
In all seriousness though, I'd probably say I have trouble making interesting side characters. Like whenever I need to throw in a character that isn't one of my MCs, I tend to default to a generic "average person" personality and don't bother doing anything interesting with them. XD; So then when the said side characters end up having a comparatively important role, I feel like they're always really flat and don't feel any different than that other random person we met a few chapters ago.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2013 17:27:44 GMT -5
PFA - My primary piece of advice for side characters is to define them by their quirks. If they're not going to be around for more than a scene or so, you need to exaggerate their personalities somewhat in order to make them memorable--or at least make it so the reader won't skim through everything they do and say. They need to really come on strong to make them worth reading about. For example, if you need a shop clerk in a scene, does she obviously hate her job and is passive-aggressive toward the customer, trying to get them to buy something and get out as soon as possible? Or is she an older woman who, though sweet and kindly, insists on showing customers photos of all twenty of her grandchildren and three great-grandchildren before they can leave the store? How about a big, burly biker guy inexplicably working in a children's clothing store? There are all sorts of interesting directions you can go with any role you might need to stick an otherwise-generic character into. And the best part is, if you find those side characters turning into more important characters, because you already have a very strong and blatant aspect of their personality to work with, it makes filling in the rest of their personality that much easier. Maybe that disgruntled clerk was once an art major who became discouraged from her career goals and has resigned herself to drawing an obscure experimental webcomic while she works a dead-end job and tries to deal with her flaky boyfriend. Maybe that grandma lives far away from her family and misses them deeply, and maybe she lives alone with her lap dog and listens to a Pandora channel full of swing music while she shares recipes on Facebook. Maybe that biker works at the kids' clothing store because he and his motorcycle gang also run a charity for disadvantaged children and the proceeds from the store go toward the charity. (Maybe I have too much time on my hands...) Of course, it's also important to not overdo side characters to the point of making them unbelievable, but that's something left to your own best judgement and the overall tone of the piece (you can get away with more exaggerated characters in a work with a more humorous or surreal tone). Don't forget to make them physically diverse, too. If you're writing something set on Earth, there is a wide range of ethnicities, cultures, and subcultures to choose from. Fantasy universes more often than not have at least several sapient species to choose from when creating a character (or you could make something up on the spot and expand your fictional world that much more), and even within species there is bound to be variety. Additionally, having interesting side characters has the effect of making you explore the main characters' personalities further. Figuring out how a character would interact with a passive-aggressive store clerk is a much better exercise in character development than simply allowing them to have a generic conversation with a generic person. (Please excuse my deluge of advice, but writing characters is one of my favorite things to do and I'm so glad Nat rezzed this thread. Also I am sick and don't have much else to do today.)
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Post by PFA on Dec 12, 2013 17:40:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the tips, @surfersquid! I totally agree, though I think part of my problem is that I have trouble coming up with the quirks in the first place. XD; Maybe what I need is a random quirk generator. >_> <_<
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2013 18:00:36 GMT -5
Thanks for the tips, @surfersquid! I totally agree, though I think part of my problem is that I have trouble coming up with the quirks in the first place. XD; Maybe what I need is a random quirk generator. >_> <_< Haha, maybe you could find one somewhere on this great wide Internet. After all, there's a random generator for just about everything else. I guess one good criteria to use would be to try to think of quirks that would have an interesting effect on your characters. For example, if you have a scene where you're using an idealistic main character, giving them a cynical side character to play off of would be quite elucidating. As an example of this, I'm working on an NT series about my Grundo, Hyren, who turns out to have been an elite commander in Dr. Sloth's galactic army before he joined my Neopian family. At a point in the story where Hyren is feeling disillusioned about his value in Sloth's eyes and role in the universe, and torn between going back to old loyalties or protecting his new friends, he gets a call from Sloth's flagship and ends up talking to a fawning, sycophantic fellow Grundo who practically idol-worships him. This serves to make Hyren have even more of a distaste for his old life and want to further distance himself from those who blindly work for Sloth. A little later, he gets a ride back to the flagship from Sophix II, whose flippant attitude toward anything besides money, and her interest in keeping herself safely emotionally distant from everyone she works with by building up a transparent pretense of sarcastic camaraderie, also help Hyren decide this isn't the life he wants to go back to. Both the Grundo communications officer and Sophix are side characters, but they serve an important purpose of helping Hyren come to the conclusions and make the decisions he needs to.
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Post by Gelquie on Dec 12, 2013 18:10:22 GMT -5
I think one of my biggest flaws in writing characters is making them sound distinct. It's better than it used to be, but there are still some instances where if the characters speaking aren't explicitly defined, they end up sounding the same, using the same vocabulary, etc, even if the characters come from different backgrounds. Most of the time, my characters end up sounding formal despite their level of education or whether it'd be in-character for them to be formal.
I'm also not very good at describing anything they do that's non-verbal. This is connected to me not being very good at non-verbal communication at real life. I have found resources for non-verbal thesaurus', but it's still something I always need to work on.
And there are probably other things that I'm not thinking of at the moment.
EDIT: Come to think of it, I wonder in my writing if I'm prone to exaggeration. I try to keep things fairly balanced, but sometimes if I think a point or trait is not getting across (which does happen sometimes), I try to emphasize something, and I wonder if I go overboard when I do that.
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Post by PFA on Dec 12, 2013 18:11:31 GMT -5
Thanks for the tips, @surfersquid! I totally agree, though I think part of my problem is that I have trouble coming up with the quirks in the first place. XD; Maybe what I need is a random quirk generator. >_> <_< Haha, maybe you could find one somewhere on this great wide Internet. After all, there's a random generator for just about everything else. I guess one good criteria to use would be to try to think of quirks that would have an interesting effect on your characters. For example, if you have a scene where you're using an idealistic main character, giving them a cynical side character to play off of would be quite elucidating. As an example of this, I'm working on an NT series about my Grundo, Hyren, who turns out to have been an elite commander in Dr. Sloth's galactic army before he joined my Neopian family. At a point in the story where Hyren is feeling disillusioned about his value in Sloth's eyes and role in the universe, and torn between going back to old loyalties or protecting his new friends, he gets a call from Sloth's flagship and ends up talking to a fawning, sycophantic fellow Grundo who practically idol-worships him. This serves to make Hyren have even more of a distaste for his old life and want to further distance himself from those who blindly work for Sloth. A little later, he gets a ride back to the flagship from Sophix II, whose flippant attitude toward anything besides money, and her interest in keeping herself safely emotionally distant from everyone she works with by building up a transparent pretense of sarcastic camaraderie, also help Hyren decide this isn't the life he wants to go back to. Both the Grundo communications officer and Sophix are side characters, but they serve an important purpose of helping Hyren come to the conclusions and make the decisions he needs to. Ooh, I like that. :3 Thanks, I'll try to keep that in mind. Though I should probably mention that a quick Google did indeed pull up a couple random quirk generators, so there's that too :B
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Post by Omni on Dec 12, 2013 18:22:47 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2013 18:38:29 GMT -5
PFA - Excellent! I thought there might be a few in existence. Gelquie - I suggest observation for this one, too. Pay close attention to how people in real life speak--how a middle-aged adult's diction differs from the way a child, a teenager, or a young adult would convey the same information. Also note how the way people speak differs across cultures and regions, even regions that share the same language. I'm not just talking about different accents, although an accent can be a definitive part of someone's speech pattern, too. I live on the west coast of the United States and a co-author of mine lives on the east coast, and there are distinct differences in our diction. Being able to realistically convey how people talk has a lot to do with listening to them talk in nonformal situations. Be sure to keep in mind a character's life history when considering their speech patterns, too. Do they use a lot of terms connected to their occupation or hobbies? How much education do they have (and how diligent were they in said education)? Does their general personality lend them to be more casual speakers, or to state everything formally and seriously? How much emotion and emphasis do they put into their speech? As for non-verbal communication, I tend to have a hard time with that, too. What usually helps for me is to picture the characters in my head as they're communicating and try to observe what they're doing. Even the subtlest nuances of body language will help to move them away from being talking heads. Allow them to shift stances, rub their nose, check their watch. It might also help to develop a few quirks in body language that are signatures of certain characters. For example, in that big project I'm writing, I have a character who tends to chew on her own hair when she's anxious, and another character who scowls a lot as a display of aggression when she tries to intimidate people.
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Post by Breakingchains on Dec 14, 2013 0:15:45 GMT -5
My characters are usually horribly unsubtle, especially on a first pass.
I think in my case it's partly because my favorite characters in other media are always the larger-than-life ones, the ones that just overwhelm you when you watch them in action. And in trying to imitate this I end up with less characters and more giant dense bricks of loud explodey character traits. I can get there, it just takes me a long time.
And yeah, I also have the issue with getting them to sound different. This is partly because I have a fair amount of jargon in my everyday vocabulary and it's hard to keep that from creeping into the speech of characters it makes no sense for. =/
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