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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 17:45:19 GMT -5
Dear Icy Taco,
My name is Sarn. Some of you know me, some of you don't, but I have tried on several occasions to include myself in the goings on of the Taco, to understand it's ins and outs and to make some new friends, but in my (admittedly undedicated) attempts, I have been met with, for the most part, feelings of being very unwelcome. Now, before you jump down my throat, please just hear me out.
I know you've all said you are welcoming of newcomers and inclusive and friendly, and perhaps you are and I just have yet to experience this, but it is my personal opinion that the Taco is intimidating enough as it is, and even more so when one attempts (and fails) to include themselves. You can say you're welcoming all you like, but you will need to ask people who have tried to feel welcome in order to judge accurately if you truly are or not, because you don't know how it feels to be on the outside. Because you're included. Do you see what I mean?
Now, I've got several theories as to why I wasn't welcomed, all of which may or may not be a contributing factor. The aim of this letter isn't to criticise, but rather to find out what this is really about and see what can be done about it.
Firstly, I know the split between the Bloids and Taco was full of drama and ill feelings. No harm was ever meant toward anyone, but some forumers (both Bloiders and Tacoers) still hold on to grudges and hurt feelings. I am known to be a Bloider on occasion, and perhaps there is a bias against me and other Bloiders in the Taco. I don't know.
Secondly, I am fully aware that the Taco is busy and full of people caught up in their own IC chatting. Sometimes you just don't notice when a newcomer posts, or you're too busy to reply to them. Now, while it is no big deal for one's greeting post to go unnoticed or unacknowledged, it is a big deal when they make an effort to include themselves in existing conversation and are not allowed to participate. This has been my experience on more than one occasion.
And lastly, there is a distinct air of exclusivity that many of you will probably not even be aware of. The fact that you guys have your own private Skype chat that regular NTWFers aren't allowed to be added to only makes this more difficult to ignore. There is a main NTWF chat where any NTWFer is welcome, not just Bloiders, and there's even an entire thread about it with instructions on how to be added, but the Skypey Taco, as it has been dubbed, is so exclusive that I didn't even know about it until Poldon told me.
Now, I'm not pointing the finger of blame. My purpose here is to a) discern if I'm merely being a paranoid git, b) if I'm not being a paranoid git, to inform you Tacoers of some things about which you may be unaware, and c) to ask humbly for you to make a little more of an effort for people like me to be included and feel welcome. I like all the people I know at the Taco and I would like to get the opportunity to get to know the ones I don't.
Love and kisses,
Sarn
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 19:18:36 GMT -5
Quite a few of us are aware of the seeming exclusivity of the Taco, and there are problems, but you do have some misconceptions in your post that I'd like to clarify. Firstly, I know the split between the Bloids and Taco was full of drama and ill feelings. No harm was ever meant toward anyone, but some forumers (both Bloiders and Tacoers) still hold on to grudges and hurt feelings. I am known to be a Bloider on occasion, and perhaps there is a bias against me and other Bloiders in the Taco. I don't know. Grudges over this have faded, so whatever the problem is, it isn't this. Now, while it is no big deal for one's greeting post to go unnoticed or unacknowledged, it is a big deal when they make an effort to include themselves in existing conversation and are not allowed to participate. This has been my experience on more than one occasion. Nobody tries to ignore posts, and I'd have to know the exact situation, but some things... they would be part of a running plot of sorts, where it would be the equivalent of walking up and joining a conversation (or, more accurately, an RP) about something you aren't involved with. The fact that you guys have your own private Skype chat that regular NTWFers aren't allowed to be added to only makes this more difficult to ignore. There is a main NTWF chat where any NTWFer is welcome, not just Bloiders, and there's even an entire thread about it with instructions on how to be added, but the Skypey Taco, as it has been dubbed, is so exclusive that I didn't even know about it until Poldon told me. It's not an exclusive Icy Taco chat. It was just dubbed as such because of its similarity to the Taco. One of its members rarely even visits the Splatterboard, and another isn't even an NTWFer at all. That being said, the Skypey Taco is somewhat exclusive, because we'd prefer that it would be people that the small group of members all know well. The problem is, in my opinion, the high learning curve. We've been setting up this entire huge universe... but no quick way to explain it to a new person. The Guilds have a similar problem, but it's lessened by the fact that Guild RPs are somewhat disconnected so a newbie can jump in slightly easier, compared to the Icy Taco, which is always moving, there's always something going on. Do not misunderstand, we've been making attempts to solve this. The Icy Taco Museum thread is an example of this. However, even that thread can be intimidating to newer members, as some sections (such as the as-of-yet near-empty event summary section) would be more useful to oldbies that may have missed events than newbies trying to understand. Plus, it doesn't explain some of the Taco's mechanics, although the first post of every Taco does try to make some explanation to help. I hope I've managed to answer a few things. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 19:31:22 GMT -5
I'm just gonna say my own two cents here. Take it with as many grains of salt as you feel necessary, since I can apparently be quite oblivious.
Sarn, love, I saw you come to the Taco once. Just once. You talked to Poldon then, I believe. Not very many people were on at the time. I know I was busy elsewhere. If you've come by at other times, I really have not seen you post. I'm sorry you didn't feel welcome, but I can understand why you didn't get many responses if only one or two other people were online at the time. :<
As the creator of the Taco chat, I find that statement to be… hurtful, quite honestly. :< You misunderstand what the purpose of it is. It was not made by the Taco, nor was it made for the Taco. The chat was made primarily for the purpose of one of my stories (SEE ALSO: TURNABOUT INN) since we don't have multi-way PMs. It has continued and added other people for the purpose of coordinating our story-arcs so that they don't run into one another. The reason I have not added other people than those that are already there is because they have not asked.
Next thing… What I have seen of newcomers has been contrary to what you are stating… which confuses me. I've seen Poldon join… I saw Selm and Dju interact (and I know people were quite eager to talk to them, even if they haven't come back…)… and when Robyn visited, it resulted in much hilarity as she interacted with other people. I'm not sure why I'm seeing this discrepancy between our testimonies…
I'd like to add something in general, just because I've been told I ignore people. I don't. :/ I try to make an effort to respond to as many people as possible. And if I don't respond, it means I have nothing to say. I do at least greet people to let them know I am there. But I'm the kind of person that has had a hard time with small talk in real life. I'm used to listening to other people talk around me and saying nothing at all… because I had nothing useful to contribute and/or didn't know what they were talking about. This kind of carries over into how I interact on the Forum.
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Post by Dan on Feb 8, 2011 20:17:49 GMT -5
A lot of people have had the same exclusivity complaint about the Bloids. It's less of a problem now as it once was, when the Bloids was far more involved in the "She's marrying my baby's sister's grandmother!" silliness, but every so often you hear of someone stating they have a hard time breaking into the culture, and how they feel bad and will just avoid it. But really, the only way this will change is by being a larger presence in the area of interest, not by shrinking away. The only way people will become more accustomed to you and you learning the ropes of that specific culture is by immersing yourself in it. It's hard to welcome new people when you don't know there's a newbie lurking in the shadows, something that is exacerbated on an online forum, I think.
That said, could it be made easier to allow people to break in? Yes, absolutely, and I see that Hunter has already mentioned some ways of fixing that problem, and that he acknowledges there's more to do. I lurk the Taco quite a bit, and even I can't tell you more than a (very) superficial understanding of the ins and outs of the culture there. As an outsider, it's very hard to figure out what's going on, and that may be especially discouraging when there's a year of IC history to go through as well. I'm afraid I don't have many suggestions to solve the problem, but it might help to consider some forms of IC chatting that are less based on the long histories, memes, and in-jokes you guys have set up for yourselves to see if that draws in new people. I know you're all a friendly bunch, and that sort of thing might help to open up your Taco a bit more, if that's what you so desire.
And lastly, the Skype chat for Tacoers is no different than creating a mass conversation on Skype or MSN for the people you wish to talk to at that point, but not inviting everyone on your buddylist. This one is just an ongoing chat window (I think? I have no Skype. XD). If you'd like to talk to those people, why not create a new chat window and invite all the people in that chat you'd like to have a conversation with?
I think all of you have some valid points that can be productive for each other to hear, and I'm pleased to see it being handled so civilly. ^^ I'll be keeping an eye on this thread to see if there's any more I'd like to add.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 21:02:49 GMT -5
*Shakes head* …The so called "Skypey Taco" is only called that because it had been called ":'D?" since about March. I made it before the Taco was made. Like I said earlier, it was neither made by the Taco nor for the Taco. There isn't an Icy Taco Skype chat in the sense you guys are thinking of. It doesn't exist.
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Post by Dan on Feb 8, 2011 21:11:23 GMT -5
*Shakes head* …The so called "Skypey Taco" is only called that because it had been called ":'D?" since about March. I made it before the Taco was made. Like I said earlier, it was neither made by the Taco nor for the Taco. There isn't an Icy Taco Skype chat in the sense you guys are thinking of. It doesn't exist. Ah, excuse my ignorance, then. I interpreted your line about it being used for planning story arcs to mean that Tacoers were using it to discuss IC-related things. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 21:29:04 GMT -5
*Shakes head* …The so called "Skypey Taco" is only called that because it had been called ":'D?" since about March. I made it before the Taco was made. Like I said earlier, it was neither made by the Taco nor for the Taco. There isn't an Icy Taco Skype chat in the sense you guys are thinking of. It doesn't exist. Ah, excuse my ignorance, then. I interpreted your line about it being used for planning story arcs to mean that Tacoers were using it to discuss IC-related things. Well, we don't plan our arcs there. We do that on our own time. But we do discuss them on occasion, if we have questions about conflicts. (That goes along the lines of "Are you guys doing anything from X to Y?") If it's anything really important, though, we'll go to the boards to discuss it. For example: My latest story arc is "The Day of Destiny", (which, incidentally, is linked to in my signature, if you're curious about it) which I finished yesterday. It was a story arc that was private between me and PFA due to the fact that it only involved interactions between our characters.
However, I mentioned the fact that I was planning this on Skype. I had a countdown going. Since it was something very important that other people would also get to read, I also talked about it on the Taco and did the countdown there as well. In summary… I planned it on my own time. Yes, I talked about it on Skype, but that's not the only place I did so. Mostly we talk about school, really. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 23:47:02 GMT -5
Grudges over this have faded, so whatever the problem is, it isn't this. Can you speak for every single Tacoer who was part of the split? I'm not trying to prove you wrong, I'm just saying that there is a distinct possibility that the bad blood hasn't entirely faded, and regardless of whether it has or not, my personal feeling is that, for some things, it hasn't totally gone. It's a feeling. Not a fact. Nobody tries to ignore posts, and I'd have to know the exact situation, but some things... they would be part of a running plot of sorts, where it would be the equivalent of walking up and joining a conversation (or, more accurately, an RP) about something you aren't involved with. That's actually the point I was making. The very nature of the Taco makes it a difficult place to get a foothold in, and the nature of the IC chatting only makes it worse. Dan's comment about exploring less canonically intense RPing sometimes might help to lessen this difficulty. It's not an exclusive Icy Taco chat. It was just dubbed as such because of its similarity to the Taco. One of its members rarely even visits the Splatterboard, and another isn't even an NTWFer at all. That being said, the Skypey Taco is somewhat exclusive, because we'd prefer that it would be people that the small group of members all know well. I understand, thanks for clarifying that point. I didn't really take the time to investigate the nature of the chat, so that's my fault. Though it is worth mentioning that that my impression of that chat won't be too different from that of other newbies. Perhaps making it more known, more accessible would help with this? Sarn, love, I saw you come to the Taco once. Just once. You talked to Poldon then, I believe. Not very many people were on at the time. I know I was busy elsewhere. If you've come by at other times, I really have not seen you post. I'm sorry you didn't feel welcome, but I can understand why you didn't get many responses if only one or two other people were online at the time. :< Just like I haven't done my homework with the Skypey Taco, so you haven't done your homework with regard to my visits to the Taco. You've only seen me there once or twice, but in the last month I've made five attempts that I can count, and a few more attempts that no one would've seen because I kinda just lurked and waited for an appropriate opening in which to insert myself. I'd appreciate if you could take this on good faith without my having to dig up evidence. I'm hopeless at that. xDDDDD As the creator of the Taco chat, I find that statement to be… hurtful, quite honestly. :< You misunderstand what the purpose of it is. You're absolutely right, and I'm sorry you found it hurtful. But as I said before, that's what it looked like from my outsider's P.O.V, and in order to know what your house looks like from the outside, you would need to go into the yard, y'know? It's very hard to judge when you're sitting comfortably in your living room. xD The reason I have not added other people than those that are already there is because they have not asked.How many people know it exists? Sorry, I just feel compelled to point out that they can't ask to be added if they don't know it's there. That, and the majority of forumers (myself included) are far too nervous to up and ask that sort of thing of a strange new group of people, and especially aren't a sort of organized thing. I believe people feel free to request to be added to the main NTWF chat because of the aforementioned thread and instructions as well as a member list and details, etc. In my humble opinion, you either need to state that it's a private chat in which no one else is welcome, or be open about it's existence so that people like me don't feel excluded. Oh and just so you know, I'm perfectly aware that this probably slipped your mind, so I'm not trying to make a fuss or anything. Just want to kinda prod, is all. Next thing… What I have seen of newcomers has been contrary to what you are stating… which confuses me. I've seen Poldon join… I saw Selm and Dju interact (and I know people were quite eager to talk to them, even if they haven't come back…)… and when Robyn visited, it resulted in much hilarity as she interacted with other people. I'm not sure why I'm seeing this discrepancy between our testimonies… I did talk to Poldon about this and he said he "got in" persistence. Most people don't want to have to persist to be included. ^^; I even may have seemed comfortable on my visits, when in actual fact my posts let very little of my nervousness and feelings of exclusion show, because I didn't want people to get angry or defensive about it. I'm only bringing it up now because I believe that others might well have been in a similar situation to me. Perhaps they didn't come back because they didn't feel welcomed? I have no idea, you'd have to ask them personally, but the bottom line is, this is how I feel, and I would very much like people to take my feelings and opinions seriously, just as I in turn wish to take everyone else's in a similar manner. I fail at explaining, so I hope you understand? ^^; It's hard to welcome new people when you don't know there's a newbie lurking in the shadows, something that is exacerbated on an online forum, I think. I wasn't just lurking, though. I made a conscious effort to be talkative and interact with people. Perhaps I could have made myself more noticed, though. But guys, my overall point is this: I like the Taco, I want to be involved with the Taco (otherwise I wouldn't have made this thread. Why would I care if I didn't want to be involved?) and have thus far felt unwanted and unwelcome. I don't want to cause a fuss, so if you don't want to make the Taco more welcoming then I'll just drop this right now, but if you're truly looking to welcome newbies, then you should be listening to what those newbies are trying to say to you, take it from their perspective (not just mine. Ask around and see what people think) and adjust things accordingly, because although Tacoers have the right to explain themselves and defend the IC chat, that doesn't invalidate the thoughts of the newbies. Erm, long story short, could you please find out what people actually think? I've given you my thoughts on the matter, but the testimony of one paranoid fox obviously isn't going to make any changes. |
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Post by PFA on Feb 9, 2011 0:18:54 GMT -5
I'm afraid I don't have many suggestions to solve the problem, but it might help to consider some forms of IC chatting that are less based on the long histories, memes, and in-jokes you guys have set up for yourselves to see if that draws in new people. I dunno about everyone else, but I generally try to be as involving and not injoke-y as possible whenever I can. XD; It's just when we start talking about ongoing plots or anything else, it's hard to... not talk about it back, you know? But yeah, I have felt like the Taco has a way of being unintentionally cliquey. :/ Unfortunately, as has been said, it's probably because of the steep learning curve, which is going to be difficult to counter. I mean, I know I personally tend to be deterred by textwalls of required reading. All I can really think of to suggest is for members of both parties—Taco regulars and Taco newbies—to make a conscious effort about it. Regulars, try to be more outgoing and welcoming, while newbies... how do I say it? Don't be afraid to speak up, I guess? XD; Most of us and our alter-egos are willing to talk to you and explain things you don't understand if you just ask. Easier said than done, I know, but... *shrug* That's all that really comes to mind. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2011 0:24:50 GMT -5
All I can really think of to suggest is for members of both parties—Taco regulars and Taco newbies—to make a conscious effort about it. Regulars, try to be more outgoing and welcoming, while newbies... how do I say it? Don't be afraid to speak up, I guess? XD; Most of us and our alter-egos are willing to talk to you and explain things you don't understand if you just ask. Easier said than done, I know, but... *shrug* That's all that really comes to mind. You said it far better than I! xDDDD; I told you I fail at explaining my points. *flail* |
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Post by Dan on Feb 9, 2011 0:36:25 GMT -5
I did talk to Poldon about this and he said he "got in" persistence. Most people don't want to have to persist to be included. ^^; I even may have seemed comfortable on my visits, when in actual fact my posts let very little of my nervousness and feelings of exclusion show, because I didn't want people to get angry or defensive about it. I'm only bringing it up now because I believe that others might well have been in a similar situation to me. Perhaps they didn't come back because they didn't feel welcomed? I have no idea, you'd have to ask them personally, but the bottom line is, this is how I feel, and I would very much like people to take my feelings and opinions seriously, just as I in turn wish to take everyone else's in a similar manner. I fail at explaining, so I hope you understand? ^^; But persistence is exactly what you have to do. You can't expect people to change for you just through one or two or even five instances of chatting with them. If you don't continue to insert yourself into the chat (either through opportunities in the ongoing chat or by creating a new line of conversation in the thread), how will people ever know that you're interested in spending more time in the Taco? This is the point I was trying to make with the line from my post you quoted -- how is anyone supposed to know you're there if the most you do, however often, is a superficial chat that eventually became a lurk? Even if the first couple posts or conversations you have on the thread are superficial, by spending more time there people will grow accustomed to having you there, and as you insert yourself into more situations you will be sucked into it more as time goes on. It's not enough to try a couple times and then throw in the towel. You gotta be persistent, man. XD (And this goes for everyone trying to enter a new situation, not just you.) But guys, my overall point is this: I like the Taco, I want to be involved with the Taco (otherwise I wouldn't have made this thread. Why would I care if I didn't want to be involved?) and have thus far felt unwanted and unwelcome. I don't want to cause a fuss, so if you don't want to make the Taco more welcoming then I'll just drop this right now, but if you're truly looking to welcome newbies, then you should be listening to what those newbies are trying to say to you, take it from their perspective (not just mine. Ask around and see what people think) and adjust things accordingly, because although Tacoers have the right to explain themselves and defend the IC chat, that doesn't invalidate the thoughts of the newbies. Sarn, in all honesty, you're coming across pushy here, whether or not that was your intention. What you're essentially saying here is, "I would like to join your group, but the few times I tried to enter into it I wasn't accepted with entirely open arms, and therefore I'd like you to change how you do things to suit my needs." It reads as very dismissive of the way the Taco has been running since its creation, and that's not going to be very successful in achieving what you want. And what's more, though you say you'd like to be open towards the opinions of the ICers, saying things like "if you don't want to make the Taco more welcoming, carry on" when Hunter said earlier that they're working out methods to do just that...well, it's kind of rude. You put them in a difficult position with ultimatums like that because either they look dismissive and exclusive, or they submit to your will as though it's the only option. I think it's important to understand that overall the Tacoers have worked out a system they're happy with, and forcing changes on that system because it's not a perfect fit with your personal beliefs isn't productive in the long run. Of course they'd love new people to chat with, and I'm sure that includes you. Yes, I think we can all agree it's more difficult to learn the ropes of the Taco more than other areas of the forum, but that's not what I think you're upset about here. I think you feel that the people themselves are dismissive of you, and I know for a fact they aren't, as they've said a couple of times already. The crux of it is: you can't expect them to make the majority of the effort to include you. In the end, it has to come from you. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2011 1:29:28 GMT -5
Eh, sorry if that came off the wrong way. What I meant by what I said was not to present an ultimatum or force the Taco to change a lot. Or even to ask them to change a lot. Just a little. Just a tiny bit to make people like me feel welcome. I'm sorry if that's what I sounded like. I keep saying I'm not great at explaining. I go off on tangents and stuff.  And perhaps it does come off as pushy to ask for even a little change to suit "my needs" but honestly, if someone approached me and told me they felt I had not been entirely friendly with them, I would feel bad and want to shower them with attention, because it's no skin off my neck to make that little extra effort and it makes someone happy. But I suppose this is different given that I'm one person that the Taco is representative of many people. I dunno. Oh and no, this isn't because I'm personally feeling ignored. I kinda resent that implication, actually. Makes me sound petty. :/ I haven't singled anyone out and I'm not upset about this. As I said before, my purpose here is to state the obvious (the Taco is hard to get in to) and ask if something can't be done about it. It's no single person, not even me, it's just the situation. But you're right in that I haven't gone crazy-active, which I will make an effort to do in the future. |
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Post by Gelquie on Feb 9, 2011 3:03:18 GMT -5
I'm sorry it took me so long to post; I had to take time on this.
I do admit that there is a problem of exclusivity. And part of that problem does indeed lie with the many inside-stories/jokes/whatever. The way some things go, it can be extremely hard to dive in, and it does make the Taco more closed.
There have been steps that the Taco members are taking in order to ease the slope, such as creating mini-arc threads for long/spoilery events that would otherwise take up the whole Taco in its process. In that sense, things are freed up in the RCI chat itself and regular conversations can still go on while other things progress. Of course, this is not a perfect system; there is unfortunately way too much reading in order to be involved in something big, as some arcs are directs sequels of others with are direct sequels of others which--You get the idea.
However, that does not mean that there can't be other, unrelated arcs that can be created; there can be arcs created free of these sorts of things, and we can work towards making more of those things so that those who don't want to read some things don't have to.
With that said, there are steps that the newbie has to take as well. As Dan said, it's true in real life that a new person has to make adjustments to fit in a new environment. While coming in every so often is good, a more active role would be better. I encourage everyone on the Taco to try to give newbies a welcome, though admittedly sometimes, this is just not always possible. But it's kind of the same thing on the bloids; posts are missed there and posts are missed here. It happens. If it's just one post missed, it'd be better to just try again a tiny bit later; it's usually an honest mistake.
However, a newbie can offer incentives to the conversation; a hook for others to pick up on so as to start a conversation. For those that have trouble with this (even I do XD; ), I have an easy one: start asking questions. It doesn't have to be to writers; you can also interview characters. Maybe you can ask them trivia questions. Even if you don't get a straight answer from characters all of the time (some characters have attitude problems XD; ), you could still at least receive comments to go off of. You can think of it as meeting new people, or something. And that's just one example.
As for when chatting goes on at a rapid pace, you don't have to follow every conversation, really. One would be insane to try. XD; If there's not some big major thing going on, then it's usually pretty safe to try to pop in. If there's more than one thing going on, it's usually a safe bet that there's people open to chat. Even if things are frequently picking up (at which point I'd actually recommend a mini-arc thread XD; ), there's generally always some time to have a random normal (or "normal") conversation.
People in general need time to get to know others, so it might be understandable if the existence of a Skype chat is not immediately outright declared; the chat has seemed to some to be more personal than the forum because of the nature of Skype. And if time is provided from both sides, that shouldn't be too much of a problem. If being friendly with the Taco is (one of) one's goals, then it can be provided with help from both sides.
The whole Taco board is kind of like a culture in and of itself. Cultures can be fun to learn; they often have different ideas and fun different ways of seeing things. The same thing goes for new blood; groups of people can also learn things from newcomers, and possibly add a whole new dimension to a culture. All it takes is open-mindedness and excellentness on both parts.
So in short, everyone should keep everyone in mind. And also, new blood is awesome.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2011 16:34:31 GMT -5
Right, I'm not very happy at the moment but I need to get this out, because I have started feeling like the victim here. I wrote my first post without too much of a clear idea, a few things I said came off the wrong way and I didn't mention that my efforts to break into the Taco would continue. People have assumed, as a result, that this is an accusation, ultimatum, pushy, that I'm trying to force change or that I want a huge change in the way things are done and that I wasn't going to make the slightest effort to play my part. Guys, I actually tried to clarify as I went along, but it seems my clarifications have been lost upon you guys so that I'm the Enemy and this upsets me a lot. I -thought- I made this clear when I said PFA's post spoke to my intentions much better than I could write them myself, and I've told you constantly that I have trouble with composing my thoughts when it comes to this sort of thing. If my clarifications have been missed or overlooked, then let me make this abundantly clear ... In no way am I asked the Taco to: 1. Change the way things are done, the mechanics or the culture and history that has been built there. 2. Make all the effort in the process of easing newbies into this culture. 3. Take all the blame for the difficulties of the situation. Yes, I do know that some things I've said have come off the wrong way, you don't need to tell me again. Yes, I am asking you to change, but only a tiny bit. The reason I posted what looked like an accusation was because I wondered if some of the Tacoers even knew that the Taco appeared intimidating, which I hoped would spurr them on to make more of an effort with newbies rather than make people feel accused. Likewise, my comments about exploring less historically intense types of RPing was meant as a possible idea in the future to help attract newbies as well as include them when they stumble in to the Taco, NOT as something that the Taco needs to change. And notice how I said "sometimes". And I'm going to quote some of my posts to make sure I get my point across, because I'm sick of being misunderstood. Now, I'm not pointing the finger of blame. My purpose here is to a) discern if I'm merely being a paranoid git, b) if I'm not being a paranoid git, to inform you Tacoers of some things about which you may be unaware, and c) to ask humbly for you to make a little more of an effort for people like me to be included and feel welcome. I like all the people I know at the Taco and I would like to get the opportunity to get to know the ones I don't. This seems to be the primarily offending paragraph: But guys, my overall point is this: I like the Taco, I want to be involved with the Taco (otherwise I wouldn't have made this thread. Why would I care if I didn't want to be involved?) and have thus far felt unwanted and unwelcome. I don't want to cause a fuss, so if you don't want to make the Taco more welcoming then I'll just drop this right now, but if you're truly looking to welcome newbies, then you should be listening to what those newbies are trying to say to you, take it from their perspective (not just mine. Ask around and see what people think) and adjust things accordingly, because although Tacoers have the right to explain themselves and defend the IC chat, that doesn't invalidate the thoughts of the newbies. So let me clarify. What I meant by "if you don't want to make the Taco more welcoming ..." was NOT an ultimatum or accusation. What I was trying to say was "if you don't want to be a bit more welcoming then that's okay and I'll make more of an effort to be included, though it would be nice if you put in a little bit of effort". I just didn't say it in the right way. This wasn't meant to turn into an argument and I didn't mean to hurt anyone or be hurt myself. This is just one huge misunderstanding. What I am asking is for what I said in an earlier post. And perhaps it does come off as pushy to ask for even a little change to suit "my needs" but honestly, if someone approached me and told me they felt I had not been entirely friendly with them, I would feel bad and want to shower them with attention, because it's no skin off my neck to make that little extra effort and it makes someone happy. Also, I apologise if this post comes off the wrong way as well, because I know it's bound to happy. To clarify: this is an apology and a clarification of my point (which I hope I've made). It's just that it's written while I'm tired. Hope I cleared things up. |
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Post by Omni on Feb 9, 2011 23:13:33 GMT -5
However, a newbie can offer incentives to the conversation; a hook for others to pick up on so as to start a conversation. For those that have trouble with this (even I do XD; ), I have an easy one: start asking questions. It doesn't have to be to writers; you can also interview characters. Maybe you can ask them trivia questions. Even if you don't get a straight answer from characters all of the time (some characters have attitude problems XD; ), you could still at least receive comments to go off of. You can think of it as meeting new people, or something. And that's just one example. The first thing that came to mind when I read this: Character Guessing Game. ((Which, in of itself, is a Taco culture thing, but a fun one that can be useful for this kind of thing.)) Hmm... Maybe we should make some note in the title of the Taco Museum that it might be a good place for newbies to start. I think I'll also recommend including an explanation of the CGG, and a version of the Aldine Report (a list of species; less exact and complex than character profiles) in the museum. Anyway, yeah, I come to the Taco once in awhile, and even now it seems like I have trouble joining in and/or getting at times. ... At least one of my attempts has actually scared people off.  It can be hard to find a nice balance that doesn't feel too unnatural. ... Aaaand I'm not sure what else to comment about at the moment. Sorry if this doesn't help much. |
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neo username - dan4884 
