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Post by Jina on Mar 21, 2010 15:10:05 GMT -5
Alright, fair point.
That said, wiping out my own portfolio isn't currently, as far as I'm aware, an option. Otherwise, if people decide they want to tweak their decks a little (this being after not having played too long) they can just reset and do so, rather than playing the game and working for it. With that in mind, we should at least give people the option of hitting the reset button. Or just letting people do it whenever they want, but we probably shouldn't do that for the reason I just stated. And if there is any kind of confusion with anyone's cards, they can figure something out themselves, or just reset.
And I do think we should give people a bigger leg up, anyway. A deck full of commons is hard to win with, unless you force your opponents to do the same, and a leg up would make things at the very least more smooth and hopefully enjoyable.
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Post by Killix on Mar 21, 2010 15:14:05 GMT -5
Yep, new players will always have a slight disadvantage against vetrans with better cards in ANY trading card game. XD If you walked into a Magic the Gathering tournament and complained that it wasn't fair that they all had good cards and that you only had a starter deck... and then told everyone to start over... they'd give you a beating. XDXD Since a whole bunch of cards are going to be changed anyway, a deck reset isn't too bad of an option. Imagine you had a (example) Mr. Pokey forumer card in your deck for a strategic purpose... but now, Pokey changed the card and the strategy you used it for can't be done now. You might not want it in your deck anymore. The cardcutting thing already messed up a bunch of decks, so we haven't much to lose by starting over with our decks. On the other hand... I worked hard for my shinies and I want to keep them. :/ I wish other people would chime in with their thoughts on this... It'd make it easier. XD Remember that no deck is all rare. That'd burn energies so fast it just wouldn't be funny. Commons, uncommons and rares all use pretty much the same amount of energies, I just pointed that out. There's no rule that you have to use the strongest moves, anyway. If a player did that with every card, then yes it would be a bad strategy. Putting a mere two energies on a card so you can continually tap away HP while also poisoning/paralyzing your opponent while you draw better cards isn't a bad move at all. XD As far as there being no deck that has all rares... well, if the person has enough shinies or has done some good trades, then there's nothing stopping them from doing it. That was just an example of what's possible with the right cards in your deck. (and with no card limits, player2 could stuff their deck with concentrate energies, which is a common event, making it more likely for them to draw it.) Even without the event card, player2's rare still might be able to inflict a status effect on player1's card making player1 possibly skip the attack phase every turn. Player1 would be in trouble in that scenario, too. XD but the discussion isn't about the fictional duel, as that was only a made-up what-if situation used to explain what is possible in the game concerning the fact that rare cards can just come out whenever and stomp all over everything. XD If YGO were like our TCG:
1p: I summon Vorce Raider in attack mode and end my turn. 2p: I summon Blue Eyes Ultimate Dragon in attack mode. YER DED.
Of course, YGO has many more options than our TCG. XD It's balanced in that 1p could simply use Black Hole (which would destroy BEUD instantly) or something similar if they drew it, but 2p has an equal change of stopping those attempts. In our TCG, it's not as easy to turn things around once someone has a huge advantage.
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Post by Jina on Mar 21, 2010 15:45:03 GMT -5
Well, no. There is still a trend for the high-end cards to use more energies.
I'm not saying you have to use the strongest move. However, there would, reasonably often, be situations where it's more than worthwhile. Which means yes, it does burn energies.
Remember that commons also have status effects. And free retreats. And bench targetters. It's not a perfect strategy. Good, yes. But not perfect. And most important, only good against Commons. It's really not worth building a deck like that just so you can beat up new players.
So basically, an over the top extreme deck, just to try get a single situation where you'll /probably/ win against a deck full of Common cards. Again, what's the point of going that far?
Rare cards can come out whenever they want, yes. In most cases, they can into a position for stomping on weaker cards, yes. But they don't often get drawn, on the field, with energies, and keep it up long enough for a big enough advantage to win. it /can/ happen, yes. But not so often that it's an unbalanced game.
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Post by Killix on Mar 21, 2010 16:20:08 GMT -5
Well, no. There is still a trend for the high-end cards to use more energies. The obvious solution there is to not use those ones? XD But it's the same deal for all cards. :/ Your common can burn as much energies as your uncommons and rares. XD The only time you burn them in a way that is really bad is if that fighter dies or an event/ability removes them... but that applies to all fighters of any rarity. Actually, commons probably burn energies the most considering how easy they are to PWN. Okay, you got me there. That is true. Commons do have a surprising amount of great abilities. (commons usually can't hit with status effects 100%, though) Now that I think even more, I realise that many of the rares are just... bad. ._. We can fix that with the card-revamp, though. I mean, what's the point of rare cards if most of them suck and anyone can just use commons instead? I know I was very successful using only commons. XD Naw, naw, I was still going on about that there are no limits to prevent someone from having a deck full of Frag Grenades or attack enhancing equipment cards, etc. Not that that would be a particularily awesome strategy (depends on the deck of your opponent), but... whatever. I see that nobody agrees with me on that, so I give up. XD Rarity has no force when it comes down to how often a card is drawn with energies. That's all up to the dice roll. I get what you're saying, that the difference isn't large enough for the rare to outplay the common with a large enough gap. The rarer cards just have more lasting power due to their higher HP. (of course, with bad luck, if you don't draw any energies at all, you're in trouble no matter what cards you play)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2010 16:36:07 GMT -5
If I may weigh in on the discussion, we can always have a different system with the new revamp. After all, if we are wiping decks and remaking card lists, couldn't we also change around rules for card acquisition? If decks of experienced players full of Uncommons and Rares really are going to wreak havoc on the rest of the players and/or potential new players, maybe it should be made more difficult to obtain such cards? Or there could be a limit to the amount of both types of card in each deck. I know that that's been suggested already; I just thought the idea bore repeating.
In my opinion, card and deck revamps are sorely needed. I remember creating a gigantic mound of cards, over half of which weren't even loosely related to the NTWF. Shinies and even records can be retained, if the majority wishes it so, but if we're going to redo the card list, I think it would be better if everyone just started from scratch when it comes to the decks.
Also, how are we going to go about creating the new card list? I think it's been implied that all former cards are going to be brought back, along with some new ones. Personally, I'm not so sure this is a good idea. After all, we had a lot of unused and irrelevant cards that were just added without too much forum consideration, if I remember correctly. Maybe it's just me, but I think a new system might benefit us there too.
And about the length of the games, I don't think much can be done about that, either. After all, most people are on different schedules and time zones. xD
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Post by Killix on Mar 21, 2010 18:32:16 GMT -5
maybe it should be made more difficult to obtain such cards? I have an idea of how that could be done. Perhaps after x amount of matches a player has, they are awarded with a golden booster pack. The pack would have the chance of containing a rare. (I'm not sure how cards were decided for booster packs... but if needed, I could give a random number generator system example based on my Marvir's Fishing Game.) Purchasable booster packs would have commons and uncommons. Rares could either be unpurchasable individually, or sold for very high amounts of shinies. With a system like that, it might encourage people to play games, as well as keep rares... well, rare. :}
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2010 18:38:22 GMT -5
Scar's gonna kill me when he finds out I've been lurking the frum. I'm supposed to be resting and de-stressing but ... I can't help myself. Guys, please, just one step at a time.
I feel that I must explain the situation. The reason I started this thread was because the TCG had been dead for over 6 months and I believe the reason for its death was the jumbled nature of the system. No one can deny that it is messy. Had the TCG still been getting some activity then I still would have made this thread, but we wouldn't be considering such dramatic cleanup methods. We could have just made the various threads more tidy but desperate times call for desperate measures.
Stal, I can well understand your point of view ... the rights of veteran players to keep their decks and hard work are by no means being ignored. We are only at stage one of this project which is to clear out the card list. The only way to do that in a way that is fair is to wipe the slate clean and have people re-submit their various cards. That doesn't mean that every card will be scrapped as we really are only dealing with forumer cards right now.
Celestial and I are doing our best to get everyone's input and although Stal's concerns are valid, I haven't heard them from anyone who actually played the TCG while it was still active. If a veteran speaks up with the same concerns then we will listen and do our best to make things fair, but if everyone is happy then Cele and I will keep working to make this place easier and more user-friendly.
We've PMed everyone who has a forumer card and told them what is happening (which means every person who ever created a card since you have to create your own one first). As for what will happen to each person's deck, that is up to them. Some cards may not be around anymore but our aim is for those cards to be ones that no one uses. We want to please everyone but we simply can't make you all happy all the time. Please bear with us.
Also, please don't PM me about the TCG unless I PM you first or Scar will be at your throat as well as mine. Technically I shouldn't even be logged in here let alone posting. *whimperwhine*
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Post by Killix on Mar 21, 2010 18:47:52 GMT -5
The poor TCG was dead and decaying, and I'm glad that you took the initive to try to work out a way to start it up again, Sarn.
I rather enjoyed it, and I'd like to see it live once again. :}
It was indeed messy(as we've already detailed), but now we have the opportunity to fix it. As you can see by the GIANTPOSTS above, we are very excited and interested in making it work. XD Which step should we be stepping on first?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2010 19:02:12 GMT -5
<3 Thanks Mowfy Well right now just the card list. Everyone who created cards and is still around can submit them, change them, whatever. (Also newbies to card creation can get in on the act). Once that's well underway, we can look at those cards created by people who're no longer around. We're including cards that may have previously been axe'd so any card has the potential to make a grand comeback. If they're well liked or even used by just one person then they can be re-added to the card list. We're not even going to touch the event cards so they're fine. Oh and I was always confuzzled by the purpose and system of the card numbers so I came up with another similar to the Dewey Decimal System. xD Numbering System
First Digit - Refers to the rarity of the card. 0 - Common 1 - Uncommon 2 - Rare
Second Digit - Refers to the type of the card. 0 - Normal Creature 1 - Forumer 2 - Event 3 - Energy
Third Digit - Refers to the card's element. 0 - Colourless 1 - Earth 2 - Fire 3 - Air 4 - Water 5 - Dark 6 - Light
Fourth Digit - A unique number to identify the card.
Example: 1158 is an Uncommon Forumer with Dark element and the 8th of this type to be created. What ch'all think?
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Post by Jina on Mar 21, 2010 19:30:43 GMT -5
Which limits which cards you can use. Now, it's hard enough to get 10-ish uncommon and rare cards. If you need low energy ones, it's gonna take a lot of winning. xD
Well, alright, it depends on the cards in question. But burning is more than losing them, it's just not having them be useful short term. So returning to the deck, or putting them on the benched Fighters when you aren't able to retreat.
Depends on the situation. xD If you have time to set the high energy ones up, they are good. xD But they do need a bit of refining. Not too much, just because there should be good card and bad cards, and specialised cards and all round cards, and so on. But some. xD
Yes there is. It's called drawing one card a turn. xD
Lasting power... if you can set it up. xD
Although in tournaments, pairing people with other people who're on about the same time would be useful where possible.
Yes. That, and the fact that so many things were slow. The shop wasn't updated very often, the card lists took a long time to put together (perhaps we should do smaller updates in the future? >.>), and the matches have been mentioned already.
We can just give people the option of scrapping or keeping.
As for how to make Rare and Uncommon card more rare, you just make them less likely to appear in a booster. >.> You need to decide with die rolls anyway, so. xD
EDIT: The previous system was basically just the order the cards were added. xD But I think that a system like that is better. Might need to upgrade to 5-digit numbers in some cases, but ohwell.
...in fact, we could split the list into various booster packs for the shop, and put that as part of the number as well.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2010 22:38:15 GMT -5
EDIT: The previous system was basically just the order the cards were added. xD But I think that a system like that is better. Might need to upgrade to 5-digit numbers in some cases, but ohwell. ...in fact, we could split the list into various booster packs for the shop, and put that as part of the number as well. I think that might be a little too compliated since different cards can appear in multiple boosters and suchlike. But we can always add that later on. *shrug*
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Post by Killix on Mar 21, 2010 22:47:08 GMT -5
The card numbers were pretty much completely pointless. I like your idea, Sarn. Are we just adding up specifically the forumer cards for now, or can I start posting my refixed old creature cards? Yes there is. It's called drawing one card a turn. xD XDXD They would still have them in their deck. XD They can let them add up in their hand and then BAM! 10 frag grenades all at once. :D *purposeful exaggeration*
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2010 0:01:40 GMT -5
The card numbers were pretty much completely pointless. I like your idea, Sarn. Are we just adding up specifically the forumer cards for now, or can I start posting my refixed old creature cards? Yes there is. It's called drawing one card a turn. xD XDXD They would still have them in their deck. XD They can let them add up in their hand and then BAM! 10 frag grenades all at once. :D *purposeful exaggeration* Go ahead and post your creature cards. ^^ Same goes for everyone else. We want 'em back in the card list!
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Post by Jina on Mar 22, 2010 4:33:56 GMT -5
The card numbers were pretty much completely pointless. I like your idea, Sarn. Are we just adding up specifically the forumer cards for now, or can I start posting my refixed old creature cards? Yes there is. It's called drawing one card a turn. xD XDXD They would still have them in their deck. XD They can let them add up in their hand and then BAM! 10 frag grenades all at once. :D *purposeful exaggeration* Most commons have at least 5 HP. That takes three grenades to kill. So, you could kill three (or less, but also possibly 4 if you're lucky), and do a little bit of damage to the last. You probably wouldn't win without them running out of Fighters, and since this is at least the 5th turn (that's without drawing any energies, and only one Fighter, which means you'd probably be dead by that point anyway) there's no reason for them not to have four Fighters out. They can, I suppose, but is there any reason they should? We don't have to set it up like that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2010 7:08:00 GMT -5
So, assuming we get the card list all cleaned up and whatnot, who would like to set up the card shop? You'll have a monopoly! Whoever does want to take on the job must be someone who is online at least once a week, ideally every day. You should also talk to Goosh if you're thinking about it since he can tell you how much work you'll likely be doing. ^^ Also, d'you guys still want to have a ranking table? I'm not sure how Vyt calculated the deck strength, though. Oh and here are my thoughts on record-keeping. That we combine all individual folio threads and TCG accounts into one thread. Each person gets one post in which to keep track of their bank account, the cards they own and their current decks. Who would like to keep the old account history and just transpose it into a new thread or ... how would that work? And lastly, I had an idea for keeping a record of all the cards each player owns in one spoiler box and then have extra spoiler boxes for each of their decks. ^^ It makes things easier to keep track of, see, and others can look and see how many awesome cards you own, even if you don't have them put into a deck.
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