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Post by Vyt: Down, but Not Out on Feb 17, 2009 19:19:49 GMT -5
The old rules only say that Energy cards must be tapped whenever a duelist attacks using a Fighter or playing an Event card. There's nothing wrong with what you've done. Putting down as much Energy as they can will lead to a duelist being able to launch devastating attacks (potentially, of course). It might lead to an unfair end-game.
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Post by Amneiger on Feb 17, 2009 19:58:32 GMT -5
No, I was just wondering why you were saying I should have only tapped three energy when it looked as if I should have tapped four.
True, although these attacks would also be limited by how many useful Fighter and Event cards they can find. Also, both players would be getting lots of Energy, which might even things up a bit. Players can still only play one Fighter card and Event card per turn, right?
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Post by Vyt on Feb 17, 2009 22:05:25 GMT -5
My mistake, then. I was referring to Killix's attack, but since it got switched to Pyro's, four Energy cards are tapped instead of three.
Yes, but then there's the trouble of having super-mega-awesome-special Fighter cards stacked up in front of someone and ordering them to attack. I can put up a requirement for playing an Uncommon or Rare Fighter card instead, though.
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Post by Amneiger on Feb 18, 2009 0:37:30 GMT -5
Hmm...maybe you need to tap an extra energy to keep uncommon or rare cards in play? I'm still not sure I like Energy restrictions though. And I'd rather see how this match plays out without new energy rules.
Draw:
[dice=30]
I untap everything except for one Light Energy, which is unusable for this turn.
I play a Fire Energy.
That's two Energy cards for an Event card, right?
I tap a Fire and Light Energy for a Frag Grenade against Amneiger.
I tap two Fire Energies for Pyro, and have her use Flameblade against Amneiger.
2 + 3 = 5. KO.
Amneiger (3/3) Tapped Energies - (F)(F)(F)(L) Unusable - (L) Untapped Energies - Wild Omni - 7/7 - Untapped Pyro - 1/5 - Tapped
Vyt (2/3) Tapped Energies - (L)(L)(F)(F) Untapped Energies - (L) Amneiger - 0/5 - Tapped Self-Proclaimed Dunburrow Steed - 8/8 - Tapped [rand=9283189608562807955151494334476836041732401382696355137997085472]
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Post by Vyt: Down, but Not Out on Feb 18, 2009 4:44:33 GMT -5
"Unusable" Energy cards are Energy cards that were not used last round and are blocked for the succeeding round. Hmm... I'm still not sure with the definition, but I think I got what you think.
[dice=30]
I untap everything. The single Light Energy card from last round is unusable.
I tap two Fire Energies to play Lemon Bomb on Pyro. Pyro takes 1 Damage and is KO'd.
I tap two Light Energies to make Self-Proclaimed Dunburrow Steed use Mighty Moo on Wild Omni for 4 Damage.
Amneiger (3/3) Tapped Energies - (F)(F)(F)(L) Unusable - (L) Untapped Energies - Wild Omni - 3/7 - Untapped Pyro - 0/5 - Tapped
Vyt (2/3) Tapped Energies - (L)(L)(F)(F) Unusable Energies - (L) Untapped Energies - Self-Proclaimed Dunburrow Steed - 8/8 - Tapped [rand=90811889217582455091261986591105649242469273676739002130378207866]
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Post by Amneiger on Feb 18, 2009 14:10:41 GMT -5
Actually, I said that card was unusable because of the rule you suggested about only allowing players to untap five cards per turn. I had six cards tapped, which meant that I had to leave one tapped. I also assumed that this meant the card couldn't be used that turn.
But right now I only have five cards tapped and thus can untap them all.
Are we playing with the new energy restrictions right now? Because I still want to see what a game without them would look like.
[rand=4727141797731089884911133119055696964238253651373732618637311835]
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Post by Vyt: Down, but Not Out on Feb 18, 2009 15:47:50 GMT -5
We seem to have mixed a bunch of things up. Therefore, I will restate the old rule.
The old rule says that the 10-card untap limit is for both Energy and Fighter cards. That means we can only untap 10 cards from a mixture of both cards. For example, I can untap 8 Energy cards and two Fighter cards, but not 10 Energy cards and two Fighter cards.
If we add the new ruling, the limit will become five. That means untapping four Energy cards will only leave the duelist one untap power for his Fighters.
Personally, I'm starting to think five is a bit too restricting. Seven cards should be enough.
Also, it might be better to use the old 10-card limit rule for this match only. We'll set up another match (probably a test match) afterwards with the new ruling.
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Post by Amneiger on Feb 18, 2009 15:57:44 GMT -5
Yeah, those five slots fill up quick. Let's go back to the rules we were using at the beginning of the match.
Draw:
[dice=30] Change to 30.
I untap all my cards.
I tap two fire energies to use Leocookies on Wild Omni.
I tap one fire energy and one light energy for Wild Omni's attack.
Wild Omni uses Tooth and Nail for 3 damage.
Amneiger (3/3) Tapped Energies - (F)(F)(F)(L) Untapped Energies - Wild Omni - 7/7 - Untapped
Vyt (2/3) Tapped Energies - (L)(L)(F)(F) Unusable Energies - (L) Untapped Energies - Self-Proclaimed Dunburrow Steed - 5/8 - Tapped [rand=96432969194590236483547250910824923463286447299143963034577557003]
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Post by Vyt: Down, but Not Out on Feb 18, 2009 17:28:32 GMT -5
I think seven will suffice instead of ten. Think: a lot of attacks usually require up to three Energy cards. That means a duelist can have at least three Fighters attacking at the same time, not to mention the number can rise up to five Fighters if they only use one Energy for an attack (this is plausible with cards like the Smileys and the Vyt Tentacles). This will obviously end up in a very one-sided game where the one with the most Fighters wins. I really suggest putting the untap restriction to seven cards.
I untap all my cards.
[dice=30]*#8*
I play Wild Omni.
I tap two Fire Energy cards to play Sleight of Hand.
[dice=30]*#10* [dice=30] [dice=30]*#21* [dice=30]*#13* [dice=30]*#4*
I put it back in the order of #21, #13, #10, #17 and #4.
I play two Light Energy cards for Self-Proclaimed Dunburrow Steed to use Mighty Moo on Amneiger's Wild Omni for 4 Damage.
I play one Light Energy card for my Wild Omni to use Tooth and Nail on Amneiger's Wild Omni for 2 Damage.
Amneiger (3/3) Tapped Energies - (F)(F)(F)(L) Untapped Energies - Wild Omni - 1/7 - Tapped
Vyt (2/3) Tapped Energies - (L)(L)(L)(F)(F) Untapped Energies - Self-Proclaimed Dunburrow Steed - 5/8 - Tapped Wild Omni - 7/7 - Tapped[rand=21562081565994423537959762688225496461320784050277988332424330158]
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Post by Amneiger on Feb 19, 2009 1:48:06 GMT -5
Good point; seven does seem like a good number. Maybe we should make that a tap restriction as well (only seven cards can be tapped per turn)? It would deal with the "too powerful attacks" problem.
Untap everything.
Draw:
[dice=30] Change to 8.
I play Ikkin.
I tap two fire Energies for Ikkin and a fire and light Energy for Wild Omni. Both attack Self-Proclaimed Dunburrow Steed.
Roll for Ikkin's Fire Sword: [dice=6]
That's 4 damage.
3 + 4 = 7. KO.
Amneiger (3/3) Tapped Energies - (F)(F)(F)(L) Untapped Energies - Wild Omni - 1/7 - Tapped Ikkin - 5/5 - Tapped
Vyt (2/3) Tapped Energies - (L)(L)(L)(F)(F) Untapped Energies - Self-Proclaimed Dunburrow Steed - -2/8 - Tapped Wild Omni - 7/7 - Tapped [rand=20416293216462267452869459286636419737299302105837711091690675957]
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Post by Vyt: Down, but Not Out on Feb 19, 2009 6:26:08 GMT -5
Putting a tap restriction totally negates the untap restriction. Duelists are free to tap as many cards as they want, but they should keep in mind that they won't be able to untap everything back on if they go too far.
I untap everything.
*draws #21*
I play Lupehunter.
I tap two Light Energy cards for my Wild Omni and one Fire Energy card for Amneiger.
Wild Omni uses Tooth and Nail on Ikkin! Wild Omni deals 3 Damage.
Amneiger uses Singe on Ikkin! Amneiger deals 2 Damage.
Ikkin is KO'd!
Amneiger (3/3) Tapped Energies - (F)(F)(F)(L) Untapped Energies - Wild Omni - 1/7 - Tapped Ikkin - 0/5 - Tapped
Vyt (2/3) Tapped Energies - (L)(L)(F) Untapped Energies - (L)(F) Wild Omni - 7/7 - Tapped Amneiger - 6/6 - Tapped
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Post by Amneiger on Feb 19, 2009 20:56:25 GMT -5
Good point, I guess. We'll see how that goes then.
And you accidentally wrote Amneiger instead of Lupehunter in your list of Fighters out.
I also just noticed that you've gotten five KOs so far. Normally I would be dead now.
Draw:
[dice=30]
I untap everything.
I play Amneiger.
I tap two Fire Energies for Amneiger and a fire and light Energy for Wild Omni.
Both attack Lupehunter for 3 damage each for a total of 6 damage. KO.
Amneiger (3/3) Tapped Energies - (F)(F)(F)(L) Untapped Energies - Wild Omni - 1/7 - Tapped Amneiger - 5/5 - Tapped
Vyt (2/3) Tapped Energies - (L)(L)(F) Untapped Energies - (L)(F) Wild Omni - 7/7 - Tapped Lupehunter - 0/6 - Tapped [rand=3935076824142979904280816469148436130847229673716964344209945115]
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Post by Vyt: Down, but Not Out on Feb 20, 2009 5:04:24 GMT -5
Oh, sorry about that. :3
You know, this is taking forever. D:
*draws #13*
I untap everything.
I tap one Fire Energy card for my Wild Omni.
My Wild Omni uses Tooth and Nail on Amneiger's Wild Omni! My Wild Omni deals 2 Damage.
Amneiger's Wild Omni is KO'd!
Amneiger (3/3) Tapped Energies - (F)(F)(F)(L) Untapped Energies - Wild Omni - -1/7 - Tapped Amneiger - 5/5 - Tapped
Vyt (2/3) Tapped Energies - (L)(L)(L)(F) Untapped Energies - (F) Wild Omni - 7/7 - Tapped
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Post by Amneiger on Feb 20, 2009 13:54:57 GMT -5
Yes, it is. At this rate we might have to chew through every last fighter in our decks before we actually harm each other.
I untap everything.
Draw:
[dice=30]
I play a Light Energy.
I tap two Fire Energies for Amneiger and use Dazzler. Wild Omni is paralyzed.
Amneiger (3/3) Tapped Energies - (F)(F) Untapped Energies - (F)(L)(L) Amneiger - 5/5 - Tapped
Vyt (2/3) Tapped Energies - (L)(L)(L)(F) Untapped Energies - (F) Wild Omni {Paralyzed} - 7/7 - Tapped
[rand=47283083370268786762584807549480471664636699557089630880110867204]
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Post by Vyt: Down, but Not Out on Feb 20, 2009 17:55:40 GMT -5
*draws #10*
Paralysis Check: [dice=6] - Wild Omni can attack.
I untap everything.
I tap two Fire Energy cards for Wild Omni.
Wild Omni uses Tooth and Nail on Amneiger! Wild Omni deals 3 Damage.
Amneiger (3/3) Tapped Energies - (F)(F) Untapped Energies - (F)(L)(L) Amneiger - 2/5 - Tapped
Vyt (2/3) Tapped Energies - (F)(F) Untapped Energies - (L)(L)(L) Wild Omni {Paralyzed} - 7/7 - Tapped [rand=8292635089303091019432726470532402306556443020973104385567479557273]
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