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Post by June Scarlet on Jun 3, 2020 22:21:07 GMT -5
I've made the revisions you suggested, Twillie. I was kind of dreading trying to fix the dragging part where I list submissions throughout the Times that have humans, just because that's such a long part. But it didn't turn out to be so bad to add a bit more to each one, because I mostly remembered what they were like still. Usually I pulled the first or second example I found in each Issue I picked, rather than looking for overarching themes, but I was still able to point out how they fit in with the Times. docs.google.com/document/d/1ml6dknzM4lte7yjXgCmLCv-duwoMHxh4Ei9C-bifkFc/edit?usp=sharing
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Post by Twillie on Jun 4, 2020 11:00:02 GMT -5
I got another response to my comic removal ticket, this time with a clear answer:
For reference this was sent around 1pm their time on the 3rd, and I’ve been talking with Rico S.
So that’s cool. Guess now we know 100% what’s going on. I replied back to the ticket asking if there’s a way to talk to the editor directly, since nt_editor has been basically useless for months now.
...I wonder if that “overlooked” line of the Editorial question was in part a reference to me.
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Post by June Scarlet on Jun 4, 2020 11:15:37 GMT -5
Nrgh, Twillie, that answer just makes me want to send this article in *right now*, whether it's ready or not. Humans haven't been a "Neo-no no" for over 900 Issues.
I mean, I think it's about ready, though. I'm missing a few dates, but I think they're not too important.
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Post by Geo 🇺🇦 🌻 on Jun 4, 2020 11:45:08 GMT -5
Alright, it looks like they're digging their heels in on this. Looks like we're going to have to fight with our mighty digital pens.
Do we have a backup plan if they reject all of our entries?
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Post by Huntress on Jun 4, 2020 11:47:28 GMT -5
*arches eyebrow* Yeah, my stance on giving some kind of a collective statement is solidifying like you wouldn't believe. ...I wonder if that “overlooked” line of the Editorial question was in part a reference to me. That'd make sense, considering how the rule had to enter into force sometime over the past x weeks. After all, your comic got accepted and published at first, and then deleted, making it a bit less likely that it's Aesop's own personal misunderstanding of the rules, and a bit more likely that he understood humans to be okay at first and then someone told him to take it down. What's particularly ironic here is that back in ye olde 2006 when we could no longer depict staff members as human, the aim was to get the staff a bit more removed from the public eye and push Neopia to be more pet- and user-centric in its rhetoric. Now we've apparently entered an era where humans, aka user avatars are getting pushed out of the user-created content but the current Neopets Team is getting a lot more limelight than it generally has over the history of the site, what with the Altador Cup Staff Tournament. (Granted, that hasn't kicked off yet - maybe they're skipping it this year? The button's still there on the AC page, but that can mean anything these days.) Fraze collects TNT-related paraphernalia and he says that the new team has released oodles of new staff-related content over just the past few years, mainly bobbleheads and keyrings for the staff tournament and suchlike. A good half of his collection is Jumpstart-related and it's a collection that dates back to the Adam and Donna days.
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Post by Ian Wolf-Park on Jun 4, 2020 12:06:34 GMT -5
In a sense, JSN are being hypocrites for disallowing humans in creative works like the NT, but are still sanctioning the AC Staff Tourney. Twillie, I'm going to have to side with you and the others on this one because it certainly was not fair that you had to go through hoops just to find out why your comic was pulled from the NT. Actually, quick question, were your previous comics also pulled and not just the one that had been running in the NT?EDIT:Nevermind, based on the editorial question, it seems like they'll let the past comics slide Huntress- They actually confirmed that the staff tourney is coming, but no exact date, in this editorial, the same one where June's qusetion was answered
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Post by June Scarlet on Jun 4, 2020 12:13:50 GMT -5
I think I'll submit my article tonight. I think it's mostly done anyway. Just polishing it at this point. docs.google.com/document/d/1ml6dknzM4lte7yjXgCmLCv-duwoMHxh4Ei9C-bifkFc/edit?usp=sharingIf you have any feedback, please let me know soon! Thanks! I plan to also put this on a petpage, so I can share it on the Neoboards. I half expect this article to be rejected, depending on how the editor views this article. I just want to make sure Aesop actually reads it, rather than just rejecting it after reading the title. So I need to figure out what exactly I should put in the comment box. I don't know, something like,
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Post by Twillie on Jun 4, 2020 12:18:11 GMT -5
In the event that submissions are rejected/don't get the message across, I'm all for doing a collective statement as well. If ever need be, I can also start making a big stink about it on other platforms (I'm in some Neopets facebook groups and have a Neopets tumblr account). And hmmm, yeah I'm giving an eyebrow raise at that amount of staff-related merch too in light of all this >> Ian Wolf-Park Nah, it was just my most recently published comic that got pulled. All my other comics are fine for now, and I haven't heard of anyone else's entries from recent issues being removed.
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Post by Geo 🇺🇦 🌻 on Jun 4, 2020 12:40:55 GMT -5
Are we going “John Hancock” the message by putting down all of our usernames? Would that just be optional since some might perceive that there could be a small risk of losing their accounts if TNT chooses to retaliate that way?
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Post by Carolyn on Jun 4, 2020 13:15:19 GMT -5
June Scarlet-I'll give your entry a read over now. Frankly, I'm quite unhappy. I'd be more than happy to join in on the group statement. Let me know. JumpStart is being quite stubborn with this decision, and at a time where there are far fewer players and fewer entries in creative categories. It all seems very poorly judged and decided, if you ask me. I'm quite disappointed in them.
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Post by Lizica on Jun 4, 2020 16:35:07 GMT -5
I haven't posted in this thread earlier because I haven't been the most active on Neo recently, and also everyone was already cohesively expressing all the indignation and bewilderment I was feeling better than I could. I really have to salute everyone for all the determination and hard work you've done just in this last week, and I just...really, really hope that they listen. >_> 'Cause this is outrageous, honestly?? This is mostly for me and partly for you all, and not really at all for the NT. But I wrote the script fueled by rage last Friday, and finally got around to sketching it, so...my general thoughts, I guess? I sent in one editorial question in protest, and managed to be very formal and cordial, despite the battle gear above. (Mostly I just liked the mental image of the battle gear.) But I will send in more formal inquiries to the editorial if it helps?! I dunno, but basically, I am sending you all lots of good luck and support, with hopes that your articles of protest will be regarded with all their proper weight. Go go!!
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Post by charming thievery on Jun 4, 2020 18:46:16 GMT -5
Hey all. Twillie , that new ticket response made me mad. I wanted to send in something to the Editorial too once I saw that a lot of people were doing so, but I hadn't managed to write anything up yet. Until I saw that. Hope you guys don't mind that I've borrowed a lot of what you've all said in previous posts. ...I don't know if the message is too long (it might be, lol...) for an Editorial question, but in case it's at all helpful in regards to whatever collective statement we might write, then I'm sharing it here. Hi TNT! I'm writing in regards to your answer last week that stated that humans in the NT were not allowed. You pointed to the rules page, but I feel the points there that reference humans or people can be interpreted differently than "no humans allowed at all". Under things preferred not to be in the NT, "Real people or places or parodies of them" and "pet/humans" are mentioned. In regards to the first, that seems to me to be referring more to famous people and celebrities, rather than to no people at all. The second was mentioned in this context: "Species or colours that don't exist on the site. This also includes hybrid pets, pet/humans, and new faerie types." Considering "humans" was written together with "pet", as opposed to just included by itself, that seems to suggest a sort of pet/human hybrid, rather than no humans.
Indeed, previous editors have not interpreted those rules as forbidding human depictions completely. In fact, Editorial #699, states that "Humans are allowed in stories as an owner". There have been countless submissions accepted in past issues that portray human owners. We understand that our entries should focus primarily on the Neopets themselves, but it was also understood that humans as the owners were still allowed to be included alongside those pets.
If this, however, is a new rule change, I sincerely ask that you reconsider your stance on this issue. I feel the Neopian Times has always been a place that showcases creative works that reflect both in-universe AND site canon. On the site, it has been clearly established that Neopets have owners. We, the users, are the owners. And we, as the owners, are human and thus often like to depict ourselves as such in our work (and comics are the most obvious cases of this). Creators enjoy portraying their own site experiences, and one of the most common depictions of that is showing themselves (as humans) interacting with their pets. I would be deeply saddened if we were no longer allowed to create or see those types of submissions in the Neopian Times.
Thank you for your time. Edit: Oops, it is too long; let me shorten it for my actual Editorial question... Hi TNT! I'm writing in regards to your answer last week that stated that humans in the NT were not allowed. You pointed to the rules page, but I feel the points there that reference humans or people can be interpreted differently than "no humans allowed at all". In fact, Editorial #699 states that "Humans are allowed in stories as an owner". Past accepted entries also reflect this.
If this is a new rule change, I sincerely ask that you reconsider your stance on this issue. I feel the NT has always showcased creative works that reflect both in-universe AND site canon. On the site, it has been established that Neopets have owners. We, as those human owners, often like to depict ourselves as such in our work. Creators enjoy portraying their own site experiences, and a common depiction of that is showing themselves (as humans) interacting with their pets. I would be deeply saddened if we were no longer allowed to create or see those types of submissions in the Neopian Times.
Thank you.
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Post by Kat on Jun 4, 2020 19:40:56 GMT -5
Okay, this is just disappointing and an overall letdown. I'm just echoing everyone's sentiments at this point but I also want to add that the Neopian Times, though it IS a part of the site, is basically a newsletter for users to submit fan work. It's not like we're trying to push for more humans (aside from TNT) on the site itself, we just like to make fanfiction and comics showcasing the myriad of ways users (ergo, humans) live and deal with their Neopets on a day-to-day basis. It's also pretty unfair that we get more visibility from TNT in on-site items like toys, and in events, but we can't write or draw work depicting ourselves or humans in general in the Neopian Times, which doesn't always abide by site canon because yes hello I am one of those folks who tweak Neopets lore for NT works.
(I do remember that time when we couldn't depict Droplet in NT stuff; we went from Snowflake appearing in custom pics in older issues to Droplet not appearing at all apart from possibly some fleeting mentions of her.)
While some NT rules have always had some basis or keep the staff from opening a massive can of worms, barring humans straight up doesn't make sense especially considering TNT's appearances. What we've always known was that we can't depict real life celebrities or insert our real names into our work and we were cool with that. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. Noice and toit. We just make our own Neo-personas, problem solved.
Again, we're not only hamstringing writers and artists by completely erasing a mine of wonderful story and comic ideas, but we are also being unfair to readers who enjoy seeing humans depicted in the NT and who have grown up on older comics and storylines that had humans involved.
I'm going to. Draft my editorial question today. And again, I am willing to throw my support behind a collective statement and even help write it.
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Post by June Scarlet on Jun 4, 2020 20:48:23 GMT -5
Whew. 'Tis done.
Thank you so much to everyone for their help and support!
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Post by Ian Wolf-Park on Jun 4, 2020 22:41:58 GMT -5
In light of what's going on, I'm going to repost something that I had already mentioned in the Altador Cup XV thread
Well, the AC Staff Tourney is coming up, and the first player introduced? Aesop, the newest NT editor, playing as a defender and supporting Kreludor.
From New Features:
And lo and behold, we have a human being depicted on site.
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