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Post by downrightdude on May 28, 2020 23:48:46 GMT -5
downrightdude Aw, thanks Snaw! I appreciate the offer, haha. If nothing happens by tomorrow, I think continuing to push these questions is best, and the more people who do the more likely TNT may say something! *puts away Rose Bride Dress* They better respond! I'm still waiting for a response for my V-Day story, which is STILL lost in their database. Then there'd the tragedy of my 900th Issue article; getting it held over in March, only to then get it rejected in May.
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Post by Geo 🇺🇦 🌻 on May 29, 2020 14:56:33 GMT -5
A while back, I remember Droplet saying she tried not to hold over anything that she wouldn't later publish. I'm guessing that precedence is also broken with our current editor(s)?
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Post by Twillie on May 29, 2020 16:29:15 GMT -5
I'm not sure how long it's been a thing, but I have heard of it as a possibility at least in recent years. It's always been a rarity from what I could tell, though.
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Post by doctortomoe on May 29, 2020 17:55:50 GMT -5
They answered June's question in the editorial.
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Post by June Scarlet on May 29, 2020 18:12:55 GMT -5
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Post by Twillie on May 29, 2020 18:31:26 GMT -5
Oh dear, I had a look as well and... I was afraid of that being the issue, but now that it's actually confirmed I'm trying to think of what actually to do next. The rules page they linked is this one, and here's the bullet point under "Things we'd prefer NOT to see in the NT" that addresses species: The pet/humans line is only referring to pet-human hybrids, like if a character was half-Aisha half-human or something (and tbh I have seen a pet/human hybrid in the Times at least once, which makes me think this rules page is a tad dated anyway). I guess, if they were to get super technical with this line, the "species or colours that don't exist on the site" could include humans in that site canon does not involve humans anymore. HOWEVER, and a big however at that, TNT has shown countless times over that this is not the case with the human characters that have been tied to the NT's entire history. This includes Jumpstart staff, and this includes the editor that came right before this new one. "We apologies apologize if entries were overlooked in the past." We're sorry for all the entries we overlooked for the past 20 years that had humans in them and that no one complained about, but now we'll right that wrong! Like seriously, do they think my 67 previous NT entries (just a fraction of human-related stories) were all flukes? I'd love to actually chat with the Editor about all this to try and get things cleared up, but of course there's basically no way to hear from them outside of the Editorial these days. I think for now I'll just keep pushing with the NM's and my ticket until they actually acknowledge me. If they just dig their heels in about humans not being allowed in the NT anymore, then I guess that's just how it'll go, but I'll still make as big a stink about it as I can. Either way, though, I'll still be making my comics. Their purpose for a while now has been for my own enjoyment over NT achievement, so I'm just as happy to make them with or without publication. I'll just have to focus on posting them elsewhere.
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Post by June Scarlet on May 29, 2020 18:43:27 GMT -5
See. I thought he was referring to this rule maybe:
Real people or places or parodies of them. Neopia is another planet, after all.
Sigh. I don't feel like creating anything for the Times right now, but Carolyn is saying I should go for my "A History of Humans it the Neopian Times" article to make my case.
It's a lot of research, though. I'm thinking it'll have to be a collab at the least, to break up the workload.
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Post by Carolyn on May 29, 2020 19:07:37 GMT -5
Oh dear... they certainly did answer that question. Well, I'm writing an editorial response to that and June and I were thinking of doing a collab article that shows how much humans have been a part of the NT since its inception. I mean, if you removed all the human entries, you'd have far less content across the board. Not to mention it being fine before. www.neopets.com/ntimes/index.phtml?section=510654&week=483 Crainwater made one of my favorite comic series back in the day and that had a human in it. Like, people know Neopia is another world, but we like to think humans play a part in it. *Sigh* We'll see if they're willing to budge on that, I hope so. Otherwise they'll be disappointing a lot of people.
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Post by Twillie on May 29, 2020 19:17:32 GMT -5
That bullet point could also be a possibility, yeah. Maybe if they wanted to make the case of, "Well, owners could be considered a parody of the user, so..." Which would be just as frustrating xD
I'm happy to help with any research you need! I actually started thinking about a little protest comic I could make that briefly details some of the history of humans in the NT, although of course it wouldn't be an NT comic, just something cathartic for me to make xD But because of that, I'll be looking through the NT archives anyway, and I've also just read countless NT comics over the years and remember a lot xD
Ahh, yes Crainwater's comics were so good!! ;w; Some of the most famous fantasy settings have humans in them, so it's nothing that would break the illusion.
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Post by Gelquie on May 29, 2020 19:25:12 GMT -5
Yeah, based on that page alone, that does seem like either a new editor's misreading of the rules, or some demand for change ordered by a higher-up. Because if they are referring to the line Twillie quoted, as she said, those are mostly likely referring to hybrids. If it's like the line June quoted, then I think that more refers to not having, say... a Will Smith character, or having the setting take place in Neo-LA. I guesss if you stretch it you could count owners as "real people," but does it really count if the owner is writing themself? What if that owner were changed into a Neopet; would that still be a "real-world parody"? I dunno.
In the history of the NT, rule interpretation has been largely dependent on who the editor is, and their judgements. And some editors have been agreeable to change if someone can make a strong point about a rule. There was a point way in the past where either there was a rule banning humans, or someone was asked to change their human-comic into Neopets to make it fit (they did). So it has happened before, though clearly somewhere along the lines (I don't know when), humans were allowed again. I remember the comic, though it'd take me some time to go archive-diving and find the approximate time period. But I'll mention it here if I find it.
I'd be intrigued in a History of Humans in the NT article or something of the sort. I can vouch for some of the early history or search some old NTWF threads about it (since I have context of that time), so I could be able to help out there.
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Post by Gelquie on May 29, 2020 20:19:36 GMT -5
Okay, I've done some research.
The human-centric comic I mentioned, they did have to change to Neopets, but not because of a no-humans rule. It was because the comic was centered on humans and was about them, and not their Neopets or Neopets, and so its presence in the NT was arguable. In that case, they just made the humans Neopets and that worked out.
However, while browsing that, I saw other comics and stories of around that time that definitely had humans involved. Usually as an owner and traveling with their pets. But the focus wasn't just about the human; there was either equal focus or the human/owner was mainly just... kinda there, or taking charge on occasion. And it was all in Neopia anyway. That has slide by for years, in one-offs and series.
Most of the rules refer to not allowing human-Neopet hybrids, or so much focus on the humans and not enough about Neopets and their world. Which I think is fair enough. But it's a far cry from "no humans," so long as they aren't, like... abundant in the work. There were tightenings over time, especially in the early years of the NT, and several bouts of arguing about it. Most of the tightenings lead to today's rules, like "no tech except Virtupets" and "no human/pet hybrids", which may have been more of a thing in the past but have long been banned and solidified now. There are changes in interpretation editor-to-editor or company-to-company, but it seems steady for the most part. And it does seem humans have been allowed in small doses for some time, usually as an owner.
But I'll admit, I have a NT knowledge gap after a while of not following it, and mainly speak for the earlier years and what I've gathered now. So if anyone can pinpoint a time of "no humans," this thread's the place to put it.
The early NT No-Nos thread may also be able to provide historical insight.
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Post by Killix on May 29, 2020 20:39:40 GMT -5
Oof, this situation must be really stressful for those who have ongoing works that prominently feature human characters. o_o;;
Really does seem to me like a misunderstanding of the rules by this new editor. Hopefully it'll get sorted out soon. Comes off as just plain odd that a webgame about virtual pets wouldn't allow the pets to be depicted as such; creatures under the ownership of a human caretaker. X'D
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Post by June Scarlet on May 29, 2020 21:59:23 GMT -5
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Post by Geo 🇺🇦 🌻 on May 29, 2020 22:26:37 GMT -5
So I sent this in via neomail to the editor.
I wonder if it would also help to get a hold of Neopets via social media? Although due to current events, I’ve tried to avoid social media lately.
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Post by Gelquie on May 29, 2020 23:31:22 GMT -5
Kat has been assaulted by Regional Proboards Error Messages! I am here to save the day by posting in Kat's stead! Below are Kat's words, not mine. Kat: --- I'm echoing everyone else's sentiments about this issue, and while my NT stuff right now doesn't involve humans, I'm really disappointed that after so many issues and years of allowing humans as owners, they're actually doing this. Not to mention, my regular NT career started with a lot of stories about myself and my pets. If it weren't for those pieces, I never would've been able to branch out into my NQIIverse and many others. We would also be taking this away from readers who enjoy stories and comics depicting human characters and identify with them. There's nothing like reading a comic or a story with a human owner and imagining ourselves in the same scenario or going, "Ah, that is a mood" or "SAME SAME". I might also submit an editorial question asking why we're suddenly deciding to pull the plug on humans in NT pieces. We're looking at removing a source of potential new NT content and discouraging many writers and artists who could step up at this time when the NT is sparser. On another note, my 12-part series got rejected again. No new series again in this current NT issue but I noticed that two long series (11 and 12 parts) were ending now, so I resubmitted A Hero's Journey...with a Princess today (with chapter titles, woo). Looks like they really are cutting down the number of series in each issue, maybe for readers' attention spans, but it still bugs me that the new series section is blank once again. I really hope I have a better shot at getting this series in now that two are finished.
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