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Post by June Scarlet on Jul 21, 2024 10:32:18 GMT -5
I mean, nothing wrong with using references, Moni. Maybe simplify what you're trying to draw? That works for me, at least. Everyone gets mitten hands! But like, when I was drawing fabric in art class, for example, I was just overwhelmed by the amount of details there are to get right. I much prefer to just draw the outline of things, and fill it in with solid color. I'm trying to think back to Drawing 101, we did a lot of still lifes, and no color. We focused on the basics. Maybe focus on the basics for a while?
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Post by Moni on Jul 21, 2024 13:51:31 GMT -5
June Scarlet idk how to explain it... like i feel i perfectly copy references but i don't really *get* anything out of it, you know? maybe it's just a frequency thing and my fundamentals are sloppier than i expected, idk. but i have been trying to do the very basic "drawabox" stuff
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Post by June Scarlet on Jul 21, 2024 18:26:55 GMT -5
Moni Hm... if you're feeling too dependent on references, maybe try drawing something simple like a perspective box drawing without using a reference. Let me just say now that I'm not an art teacher, and also I struggle with copying a reference or from life. I don't usually go for realism for a reason. Too much work. I don't know, maybe you do have the fundamentals down, and need to practice more advanced stuff? Like figure drawing? I have taken a figure drawing class once, and it was helpful in making me better at drawing figures. I would like to be better at drawing backgrounds, so it'd be nice if I could find a landscape or interiors class. What are your art goals?
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Post by Lex on Jul 21, 2024 20:04:30 GMT -5
MoniAre you able to show a specific example of something you consider to be a mistake? If there's something you catch yourself getting frustrated with, maybe there's a simpler way to do it or break it down. I get the feeling of not improving even after doing something many times (boy do I), but more often than not, you ARE improving. It's just too small of a change to see in the moment, but adds up over time.
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Post by Moni on Jul 22, 2024 12:42:59 GMT -5
thanks for your comments guys. i am now searching my feelings to see what i know to be true, as my role model darth vader would want. ........ i came back to my computer and i don't know what i was trying to say with these sentences. i slept on it. anyways i think what's sort of frustrating me is my process--i do a LOT of correcting while drawing. like i draw something, notice something wrong, and draw it again until i fix most of the mistakes i see. then i color it and everything and i see more mistakes, which strikes me as kind of a miserable way to draw now that i think about it. like i often just have layers and layers of lineart and it's still not how i saw it in my head when it's all done--maybe i just need to make peace with mistakes. but for example it can be frustrating when i notice i have tendencies i can't seem to correct for--for example, i have really big issues with alignment and i can really have a hard time thinking of objects in three dimensions. so i guess in a sense all i see are mistakes, and this process also prevents me from thumbnailing or doing a lot of the things we did in high school art class. there are other things that can be improved--my linework for example, or the fact that i can't draw environments all that well. with linework i know where to start so it's less frustrating but with environments i don't really know where to start besides drawing perspective boxes. maybe i just need to Go Outside more. June Scarlet 's answer with the art goals stuff really made me think. i don't know where to start new stuff but i can more often than not point out something wrong with the old. Lex but here's an example of a mistake. i did use a reference (mannequin) for this drawing, but i think putting a perspective grid makes it really clear where the major thing went wrong: i think during the process of drawing i used a similar perspective grid and also copied off the reference pose, i ended up not really copying the reference enough and also not doing the grid properly (should have drawn the full boxes to get an idea of the 3Dness of the pose if i were to use perspective lines.) the result is that it's eerily off-model and the character's height looks off. The parts *I* did were almost "painted" onto the side of a cube and didn't fully take into account the 3Dness of the figure. The reference is also a bit off (I overlaid my sketch vs. the reference and for example the legs are shorter by a bit) and the character's body looks much shorter than it actually is. and i can say that i guess, which is nice. but it is a bit frustrating when you're trying to avoid mistakes only to walk right in the middle of them. ;_; anyways, sorry for talking y'alls ears off.
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Post by Lex on Jul 22, 2024 13:14:25 GMT -5
MoniI know you didn't want compliments, but honestly I think that looks good. I know it's not 100% correct for the perspective you're going for, but sometimes something looking good to the viewer overrides the technically perfect aspect of a drawing. That said, I'm the last person to give advice on improving perspective. My stuff is wrong literally constantly, but I push through because my personal motivation/goal for most pieces is just to finish. As for redrawing and tons of corrections... I think that is 100% normal and part of the process. I can go through 5-10 iterations of a sketch before I'm happy with it and start to line it... and even during that step I'm usually reworking little things as I go. Sometimes I finish somethings and look at it and notice a big flaw... actually JUST did that with one of my AF attacks. Usually I let it go, but because it was a revenge for the esteemed Mr. Lexie, I went back and tweaked it even though he didn't really care. You can see that here: And truthfully there are still things wrong with this face, I didn't flip the canvas to check the final linework and I regret it, but the little edits I made (moving the eyes to be more aligned, fixing the size of the mouth) at least felt a little better. And that was after hours of work and submitting it! So I get that feeling and being annoyed with it, but I also think that all of those corrections you're doing are the best way to learn because you're making it happen in real time. If that makes sense.
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Post by June Scarlet on Jul 22, 2024 13:19:16 GMT -5
Hm... I'm going to suggest drawing from life for a bit. If your drawings lack a sense of 3D space, and you struggle with that, then maybe it's because you need to look at an actual object rather than a 2D image on a screen. I don't know, still not an art teacher. But I think you're beyond perspective boxes, at least.
Try drawing your room or something. Don't have to share, just to practice drawing from life. Practice using your pencil to figure out the angle of things. Try freehanding the perspective without using a ruler. I'm trying to remember back to drawing class, but it's been a while.
I know there's books at the library for drawing figure. Maybe check them out?
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Post by Ginz ❤ on Jul 22, 2024 15:07:57 GMT -5
I'm gonna offer a different perspective. Feel free to dismiss it if you don't relate to it, but reading about your process makes me think it's partly that you're struggling with perfectionism. I personally struggle with this a lot, to the point that sometimes it's hard for me to start on an art piece because I have this fear that it won't come out right, and I want to avoid that frustration, so I just... don't draw.
Lex is right that it's normal to do different iterations of your sketches, and correct a lot as you go, but there is such a thing as overdoing it, especially if it's taking the joy out of drawing for you. In that case, I think it's more a matter of changing your mindset. I've heard the saying "Perfect is the enemy of good" and that's helpful and all, but I like one that goes even further and says "Perfect is the enemy of done." Any art piece, even those from artists you admire, or those displayed in museums, could be tweaked or "improved" somehow. But if the artists who made them were bogged down trying to fix any little mistake or imperfection, they'd never be done.
It something that helps me, personally, when I start feeling overwhelmed or frustrated with my art. "Perfect is the enemy of done" is a reminder that makes it easier for me to let go of my perfectionism a little, call things good enough, and move on to the next one. In the long run, I know I'll learn more from drawing several things than from tweaking one endlessly.
A huge part of drawing is observing. It can be really demotivating if all you see are mistakes in your art, but I think it does mean you are good at observing. Unfortunately, there's no shortcut to just not make mistakes anymore, but if you recognize there is something specific about your art that you would like to work on, then you can do studies or exercises that focus on that specifically and improve quicker. It is a bit about pushing through and practicing a lot and getting the 'bad' art out so you can get to the good one, and all those things people say... but at least we're here to commiserate on that too.
Good luck <3
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Post by Moni on Jul 22, 2024 22:05:06 GMT -5
yeah i've been looking at computer graphics recently June Scarlet and there are certain advantages to just drawing from life for sure. for one in life when you're curious about the structure of something and how it changes you can just........... look differently and observe how it changes. also there is a bit of difference between how you see things with your two eyes vs. how they show up on a lens. i love making my head feel dizzy by just changing my two visual fields and seeing what my brain does Lex i wouldn't have even noticed it if you hadn't pointed it out, honestly. but i suppose that's just something that comes with you looking at something for a very long period of time. (also i really love this basalt mr lexie is 100% correct ;_; she looks really good!!!) hmmm i think my problem is that i like try to "redo" the same sketch over and over again. maybe? i think that's what makes it feel slow. if i thumbnailed or did multiple sketches i feel like i would probably learn better, just because i would be noticing mistakes but not fixating on them to the exclusion of other mistakes probably! but good to know part of it is just the process Ginz ❤ i think i really empathize with that! been trying to break out of it but i often have this mentality of "if i can't do it well i just shouldn't do it" which.... ensures i will never do it well lmao. it's something that unfortunately follows you a lot and not just through art. for me writing is incredibly difficult because i keep glaring at sentences and not moving on until something is perfect. it's probably hard to balance perfectionism with a normal artistic iterative process, and i just have to be OK with imperfections because at some point it's like diminishing returns, right? and tysm all for your inputs. sometimes i just really need someone to talk to/bounce off of
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