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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2012 16:47:36 GMT -5
Here's a revive and my stance.
So basically, my History teacher, when we were studying the great depression, got into a huge rant about this "not giving money to people because they might use it to buy drugs".
Personally, I would give money after hearing that because most of them WON'T buy drugs. It's a harmful stereotype. This "all homeless people only use money to buy drugs" is the same thing as saying "all Caucasian people are racist" or "all gay people are more attracted to the opposite gender's clothing style", both of which are not true and can be very hurtful.
In this case, the stereotype, does more than hurt - it could kill. If a desperate person on the edge of death gets no money due to people thinking (s)he'll use it for drugs when (s)he was planning to use it to buy some kind of food to save her life - then (s)he dies. All because of a stupid stereotype.
I'm not saying people who don't give money are heartless. I'm saying that giving money might lead to the person's drug problem OR it may save their life or the life of one or more of their family members.
Regarding what Sarn said: if someone becomes homeless for a bad reason, okay. But what if that someone has a child who is completely innocent and the parent is merely seeking to save them?
Basically, my question is this: would you rather fear a drug problem that might not even exist, or would you rather save a life and end up being a hero?
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Post by Nimras on Jan 19, 2012 17:23:55 GMT -5
Basically, my question is this: would you rather fear a drug problem that might not even exist, or would you rather save a life and end up being a hero? There is also the reverse of that question. If you do give money to that someone, and they use it to buy drugs and they die of an overdose, would you want their life on your conscience? I don't like hypotheticals, it's far too easy for one to morph them into causes and crusades by ignoring everything that doesn't agree with one's pre-held opinion. I'll stick to hard numbers and facts. Yes, only 12% of the current homeless population in the US become homeless because of a chemical addiction (of either alcohol or drug - not included are gambling or the like). However, after they become homeless 38% of homeless people go on to become dependent on alcohol and 26% addicted to other, harder drugs. (source)That is a huge percentage. If instead I could give my money to a reputable organization that helps the homeless, I could be sure that the money is getting the homeless people food, shelter, clothing, and things that can help them, instead of taking the chance that nearly 4 out of the 10 people I give the money to are going to spend it on drugs or alcohol. So that is what I do. Because I want to help them, not hand them another shovel to dig themselves deeper into their addictions. |
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Post by M is for Morphine on Jan 19, 2012 17:50:14 GMT -5
There is also the reverse of that question. If you do give money to that someone, and they use it to buy drugs and they die of an overdose, would you want their life on your conscience? I don't like hypotheticals, it's far too easy for one to morph them into causes and crusades by ignoring everything that doesn't agree with one's pre-held opinion. I'll stick to hard numbers and facts. Yes, only 12% of the current homeless population in the US become homeless because of a chemical addiction (of either alcohol or drug - not included are gambling or the like). However, after they become homeless 38% of homeless people go on to become dependent on alcohol and 26% addicted to other, harder drugs. (source)That is a huge percentage. If instead I could give my money to a reputable organization that helps the homeless, I could be sure that the money is getting the homeless people food, shelter, clothing, and things that can help them, instead of taking the chance that nearly 4 out of the 10 people I give the money to are going to spend it on drugs or alcohol. So that is what I do. Because I want to help them, not hand them another shovel to dig themselves deeper into their addictions. I had a big post half-way typed up, but that says almost everything I wanted to. The only thing I would add is that if you want to make sure someone is fed without having to worry about what the money goes to, you can always give the person food directly. If you want to learn more about drug abuse among the homeless in a way that puts a human face on it, I'd highly recommend the book Righteous Dopefiend. It is very heartbreaking, though. |
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Post by Lex Luthor on Feb 12, 2012 13:46:52 GMT -5
I can't reward failure in good conscience.
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Post by Crystal on Feb 12, 2012 14:15:53 GMT -5
That book looks like something you'd read and cry your eyes out after. ;_____; I can't reward failure in good conscience. Would you like to elaborate on that? I think I brought this up in my original post, but homelessness in different countries is very, very different, and they face very different problems. For instance, behind the house where I grew up were whole squatter families living in houses made of tin sheets, so it's very jarring for me to be in the 'poor' part of an American town. It always looks so middle-class to me. On the flip side, I don't hear quite so much about drug addictions there (although it definitely exists.) The problems they face seem to be of a different sort. Would you think differently about homelessness if the homeless person was missing both his legs, emaciated and begging on the streets? What would your stance be in that case? What about anyone else? What are your observations about homelessness/poverty in different countries? |
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Post by Lex Luthor on Feb 12, 2012 14:36:39 GMT -5
That book looks like something you'd read and cry your eyes out after. ;_____; I can't reward failure in good conscience. Would you like to elaborate on that? I've made my living in recent years being able to read people (playing poker, etc) and statistically the individuals you will meet in America are simply trying to game you. Are there those with mental disabilities that hinder their acquiring a real profession? Yes. Are there those also making upwards of 20k-30k+ a year panhandling on a daily basis because they do not want a real profession? Also yes. When I attended university over the course of four years, I typically walked. Everywhere. Regardless of distance. Needless to say I quickly became accustom to the local panhandling. I heard the same coke-addict's story about needing 5$ to keep the lights on for herself and her children. I heard one man describe how he even stopped a local state trooper to get him on a bus back west, three times. Did this desensitize me to the homeless plight? Sure, and I never gave them money. When I would see someone who was OBVIOUSLY playing with a short deck, I would give them cash. Why? Because in my opinion/belief/mindset they did not create their own mental disease (unless it was due to years of substance abuse, etc). These are not the same people poaching the corners of busy interactions day after day after day. And in these rare instances I will open my wallet. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2012 17:29:00 GMT -5
Homelessness isn't failure. A lot of people are in poverty because they were born into it, not because they were lazy. Some people might not have the time to get a good education because they're too busy at a meager job trying to make money so their baby sibling can survive.
If you saw a family of seven on the streets, in the snow, trying desperately to keep warm, what would you think then? If you were asked by a 6-year-old girl for money to feed her baby brother, what would you think? And please don't say "drugs", because a child that young probably doesn't know what drugs are.
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Post by Komori on Feb 12, 2012 17:52:56 GMT -5
Homelessness isn't failure. A lot of people are in poverty because they were born into it, not because they were lazy. Some people might not have the time to get a good education because they're too busy at a meager job trying to make money so their baby sibling can survive. If you saw a family of seven on the streets, in the snow, trying desperately to keep warm, what would you think then? If you were asked by a 6-year-old girl for money to feed her baby brother, what would you think? And please don't say "drugs", because a child that young probably doesn't know what drugs are. I dunno about that "no time for an education because they need to work a job" excuse. There are child labor laws, so it's not like anyone under 14 can trade their public schooling for work, not legally anyway. Also, if they've got a job, then why would they be homeless? You don't always need an education to get a job. And if you're talking about a 6-year-old with a baby brother and no parents, then those kids should be at an orphanage, not begging on the streets. |
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Post by Joker on Feb 12, 2012 21:53:29 GMT -5
My personal belief has always been that's important to
a) Recognize the serious, almost (though of course not quite) insurmountable difficulty of getting out of certain home situations and managing to find a job, get an education, etc. Until you've walked in their shoes, it's so easy to say, "Oh but...they could do this this and this to make money." It's not just the physical difficulty of it, it's also a matter of mindset and knowledge. And I don't think standing out at an intersection with a sign in the hot sun is exactly a desirable way to spend your time; a lot of them would probably prefer a "real" job.
but also
b) Distinguish the difference between societal injustice (at least a little of which is, I think, unavoidable) and personal responsibility (being obligated to give money). And of course, in some cases, I'm sure homeless people could do something to help themselves and have made genuinely bad life choices, and your money isn't going to do anything for them.
I guess the short version is, I understand both points of view. I just don't trust myself to know the difference between the really deserving people and the ones who are just lazy, so I don't presume to make that judgment. So my personal stance would be the same for almost any homeless person.
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Post by Yoyti on Feb 13, 2012 7:09:28 GMT -5
I've never been asked for money for food. It's actually usually money for subway or bus fares. I actually stop using metro cards once they get down to two fares just for this purpose. If they're legitimate, great. If they're fake, well, they won't use my money to buy drugs.
I do tend to give money to streetside entertainers (believe it or not, I once saw someone playing bassoon in the subway station!), but that's pretty well different, I think. What do you think about entertainers looking for money?
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Post by Gav on Feb 13, 2012 7:14:45 GMT -5
In the case of street barkers, well, that's different, because in a sense, they're working for their money.  It's just up to the listeners whether they want to reward them for it or not. As long as they're not disturbing the peace or interfering with business around them, I don't see too much harm in them. |
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Post by Nimras on Feb 13, 2012 11:15:14 GMT -5
If you saw a family of seven on the streets, in the snow, trying desperately to keep warm, what would you think then? If you were asked by a 6-year-old girl for money to feed her baby brother, what would you think? And please don't say "drugs", because a child that young probably doesn't know what drugs are. I would call child protective services. (And yes, there are 6 year olds (and younger!) who are addicted to drugs. They're usually given the drugs by their parents to keep them quiet so their parents can enjoy their own high in peace. My father-in-law has arrested with a couple of parents who were giving their young children narcotics, and it can't be a Kalamath only thing.) |
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Post by Moni on Mar 22, 2012 23:32:11 GMT -5
Eh. I don't give things to beggars. Usually scammers. (This comes from my living time in my home country. Give charity, but if someone begs, it usually means they're up to no good. Or if they look all poor and all and not doing anything . . . reason for suspicion.) I'm sure a lot are sincerely broke and have no other options, but I've seen so much scam it's not funny.
I'm not against giving charity, though. Hell, dad's helped a few of the homeless get work and learn how to manage finances. I don't mind giving charity. It's a personal case-by-case basis for me . . . most people are sincerely good and would work hard. I believe in more of the "teach a man to fish" sort of charity rather than giving money. *shrug* There's no blanket statement for anyone.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2012 17:15:58 GMT -5
In Europe there are a lot of scammers on the prowl. They pose as homeless people or just regular beggars. They make a small fortune on other people's pity.
In Denmark, you will always have the option of financial aid if you have a social security number. And if you are born in Denmark or got residence, you have one.
So homeless people here are usually alcoholics or drug addicts who -choose- to be homeless.
And I do not like being scammed. So I very rarely give to beggars of any kind.
Instead I choose to give money to good causes like cancer research or Red Cross.
... and then there's my deep fear of alcoholics. I avoid them by instinct.
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Post by Komori on Apr 1, 2012 22:03:23 GMT -5
So, living in Atlanta has given me a bit more thought to this problem.
In Savannah, there were homeless people, and you sort of got to know them. There were the ones who took palm fronds and turned them into (really beautiful) folded roses to sell on River Street to the tourists. There were the ones who were handicapped, either physically and/or mentally, and almost asked for food as often as money (hung out around the main street, so it was easy to walk into the nearest sandwich shop and get them something). And then there were the scary beggars who only seemed to come out at night and said weird things that made you wonder if they were disabled or maybe on something. (Those made me D8 and walk-run to the nearest open SCAD building) Besides the last group, I was always more than willing to give the others food or money.
Now, in Atlanta, there are too many homeless! D: They cluster in groups of a half-dozen or more, and there's no way I ever have the money to give to all of them. Not to mention this short and chubby girl gets a little too nervous around five or six grizzly guys. So I have to admit I give money to the homeless a lot less often now. Even purposely remove cash from my wallet before I go out so that I won't be lying when I tell them I don't have any money to give them. :< Makes me feel guilty, though.
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It's just up to the listeners whether they want to reward them for it or not. As long as they're not disturbing the peace or interfering with business around them, I don't see too much harm in them.
Furgo 
Michael. 
