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Post by Yoyti on Sept 4, 2011 18:56:25 GMT -5
As I've mentioned some times before, I am very interested in cryptozoology, which is the study of strange creatures. Oftentimes, people scoff at me for thinking such things a Bigfoot and the Chupacabra might exist. Usually I counter them by listing some cryptids that were proven to be real, thus proving that cryptozoology at least has some basis in fact.  The okapi!  The dingiso! Isn't it just so cute? It's a type of kangaroo! And finally,  The lovable elephant! My personal favorite of all the cryptids is the Loch Ness Monster. I believe the creature exists, but isn't all it's cracked up to be. I think its size is usually exaggerated (which makes sense, because obviously people would want to make the monster seem large so as to make their stories more exciting) and it may not look quite like the elasmosaur-type figure we are used to. I also strongly believe that there is more than one monster. I read that around twenty beasts would be needed to maintain a healthy population. If you've researched Nessie, you've probably seen the surgeon's photograph. The most famous picture of Nessie. This was admitted to be a hoax. A lot of hoaxes have sprung up around the monster. But note that there are only so many hoaxes because the legend is so famous. There is a causation between the size of a legend and the number of hoaxes that come up around it. If you remove all the false sightings, it still leaves a large amount of sightings which have not been disproven. What do you think of Nessie? What about cryptids and cryptozoology in general? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2011 19:25:53 GMT -5
I think there is every possibility that mythical creatures exist. I am an avid believer in the existence of fairies and mermaids (and I believe I may have encountered one at my school choir beginning-of-the-year picnic - she made a gigantic ripple in the lake with no sign of any rain or bugs). My mom has told me you can't prove something doesn't exist, so I will continue to believe.
That said, I also think it is individually up to the person whether or not to believe in this stuff. If a person is perfectly happy living in a non-mythical world, more power to them. I am drawn to the aura of myth and so I believe, and it would break my heart if somehow it was all revealed to be pure fantasy (which I think is impossible, a la what my mom said). But - not everyone needs that sort of thing to be a presence in their life, and that's just fine. So it's really a personal choice.
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Post by Dju on Sept 4, 2011 19:35:41 GMT -5
Well, I believe that dragons once existed. There are some signs that some dinosaurs managed to survive the meteor shower and it's side effects by hiding in underwater caves with air, maybe that's the origin of Nessie too!  I don't know exactly on what to believe, I don't put much faith on mermaids and fairies because so many people tried to fake it that I guess it kind of messed up my head. XD But hey, this is planet earth. wonders never cease. XD |
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Post by Tiger on Sept 4, 2011 19:46:43 GMT -5
I believe dragons once existed, too. That they exist in so many cultures that had no contact with one another seems too coincidental. The Discovery Channel did an awesome mockumentary called Dragons: A Fantasy Made Real, and a lot of the science sounds really plausible, and gives good explanations for the variations in dragons across cultures (eastern vs western dragons).
I'm not so sure about Nessie, but that's mostly because I have my doubts about a species being able to stay alive in a single lake. I could be wrong, though, especially if you take into account the theory that they're smaller. Actually, drawing from what Dju said - sharks and crocodiles survived whatever killed the dinosaurs; they just shrunk! Perhaps the same thing happened to some elasmosaur/plesiosaur-type creature.
I'm not so sure about mermaids and faeries; I don't believe in magic (although Harry Potter makes it sound plausible that it could be hidden =P), and both species seem like they would require it, as I can't see evolution bringing about half-human, half-fish creatures or tiny humanoids with insect wings.
There are plenty of recorded cases of "giants" and "dwarves", however. Perhaps there was once a mutation for pointed ears as well, that led to stories of elves?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2011 20:12:42 GMT -5
Dragons? No. The reason they exist in so many cultures is because we've labelled any scaly-lizard-monster to be one. Eastern Dragons have little resemblance to Western Dragons and vice versa. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the earlier cultures to use the concept of Dragons was Greek. Along comes the big Roman Empire (which drew largely from Greek architecture, language, customs and mythos) and they basically unify Europe, the top parts of Africa, the western end of the Middle-East and everything in between. They built roads, standardized currencies and languages and assimilated millions into their way of life. Well then the Roman Empire splits in half, and then in quarters and then sort of shatters and fades away, and you're left with the remains of a pancultural empire, good roads and infrastructure and a slightly less isolated standpoint, particularly in continental Europe. Then what happens? The middle ages happen. And the middle ages are chock-full of dragon stories and they spread them around like crazy because that's what middle-agers did for funsies. xD I know I'm oversimplifying things here, but it makes it easier, I hope you get what I mean. xDDD Also, real life mini-dragon. <3 |
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Post by Dju on Sept 4, 2011 20:27:13 GMT -5
Dragons? No. The reason they exist in so many cultures is because we've labelled any scaly-lizard-monster to be one. Eastern Dragons have little resemblance to Western Dragons and vice versa. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the earlier cultures to use the concept of Dragons was Greek. Along comes the big Roman Empire (which drew largely from Greek architecture, language, customs and mythos) and they basically unify Europe, the top parts of Africa, the western end of the Middle-East and everything in between. They built roads, standardized currencies and languages and assimilated millions into their way of life. Well then the Roman Empire splits in half, and then in quarters and then sort of shatters and fades away, and you're left with the remains of a pancultural empire, good roads and infrastructure and a slightly less isolated standpoint, particularly in continental Europe. Then what happens? The middle ages happen. And the middle ages are chock-full of dragon stories and they spread them around like crazy because that's what middle-agers did for funsies. xD I know I'm oversimplifying things here, but it makes it easier, I hope you get what I mean. xDDD Also, real life mini-dragon. <3 Actually I believe in dragons because according to the documentary discovery world did, they found fossils! A full body actually, preserved in ice. ^-^; www.youtube.com/watch?v=UovE4fMNwiQBut I am not sure if this documentary is real... :/ even heard of a story of a man who stitched together a dead woman's body with a fish tail to make it look like a mermaid! D: |
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Post by Yoyti on Sept 4, 2011 20:42:10 GMT -5
That article irks me somewhat. Because it said that while the lizard looks like a dragon, it actually isn't one. It says that because we've labeled dragons as non-existent. If dragons were proven to exist, that article may very well be about a type of dragon that is rather small. For all we know, that could be one of few remaining species of what we would classify as dragon. A side note, I do believe dragons once existed, but, like Nessie, were not all that big a deal. They were probably smaller than they're made out to be, and probably didn't breath fire. (They might have had acidic saliva or something?) And losing the wings and other "dragon-like" traits was because of evolution. Actually, dinosaurs are thought to be closer related to birds that lizards. Perhaps dragons were the same way? |
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Post by Tiger on Sept 4, 2011 21:12:41 GMT -5
Uhm. Ouch. Anyways, I'm gonna do some researching to check dates and such; I want to say I've read something about Chinese dragons existing long before they had any contact with Europeans/Greeks/Romans/what have you, but I don't remember where I'd read it, Google isn't cooperating, and I'm too tired to do proper research right now XD Dragons? No. The reason they exist in so many cultures is because we've labelled any scaly-lizard-monster to be one. Eastern Dragons have little resemblance to Western Dragons and vice versa. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the earlier cultures to use the concept of Dragons was Greek. Along comes the big Roman Empire (which drew largely from Greek architecture, language, customs and mythos) and they basically unify Europe, the top parts of Africa, the western end of the Middle-East and everything in between. They built roads, standardized currencies and languages and assimilated millions into their way of life. Well then the Roman Empire splits in half, and then in quarters and then sort of shatters and fades away, and you're left with the remains of a pancultural empire, good roads and infrastructure and a slightly less isolated standpoint, particularly in continental Europe. Then what happens? The middle ages happen. And the middle ages are chock-full of dragon stories and they spread them around like crazy because that's what middle-agers did for funsies. xD I know I'm oversimplifying things here, but it makes it easier, I hope you get what I mean. xDDD Also, real life mini-dragon. <3 Actually I believe in dragons because according to the documentary discovery world did, they found fossils! A full body actually, preserved in ice. ^-^; www.youtube.com/watch?v=UovE4fMNwiQBut I am not sure if this documentary is real... :/ even heard of a story of a man who stitched together a dead woman's body with a fish tail to make it look like a mermaid! D: It's not real, and wasn't meant to be =( I thought it was real at first, too, but it's really more of a scientific "here's how this could be possible!" sort of thing. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2011 22:10:24 GMT -5
Sorry Tiger, I didn't mean to sound dismissive. D: *hugs* I've had no sleep for a while so I sometimes come off as snappish when I don't mean to.
Regarding Chinese dragons, you're correct, they existed long before Greek dragons did, but they're also dramatically different from Western dragons since they emerged from very different cultures. We've given them the label 'dragon', probably because they bear a slight resemblance to each other.
I don't personally think dragons as we think of them existed but I'm happy to postulate that a dragon-like creature probably existed or maybe even still exists and was simply exaggerated. My point was that claiming dragons once existed on the basis of them appearing in multiple cultures isn't a valid argument because there are lots of other ways to explain this and there are also many discrepancies. I wasn't intending to refute your thoughts entirely, just this one particular part. ^^;;; Sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2011 22:13:51 GMT -5
I don't know exactly on what to believe, I don't put much faith on mermaids and fairies because so many people tried to fake it that I guess it kind of messed up my head. XD But hey, this is planet earth. wonders never cease. XD Dju, if YOU want to believe in something, you should. Just because most people don't doesn't mean you should be like them. Be yourself. An original is always worth more than a copy. <3 (And yes, I did plagerize that quote. From a poster in my English classroom XD) |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2011 22:20:00 GMT -5
I don't know exactly on what to believe, I don't put much faith on mermaids and fairies because so many people tried to fake it that I guess it kind of messed up my head. XD But hey, this is planet earth. wonders never cease. XD Dju, if YOU want to believe in something, you should. Just because most people don't doesn't mean you should be like them. Be yourself. An original is always worth more than a copy. <3 (And yes, I did plagerize that quote. From a poster in my English classroom XD) I want to believe I'm a millionaire but that doesn't make it real.  In any case, I don't think Dju mentioned anything about wanting to believe in these things, but rather being discouraged from it by the fact that almost, if not all evidence for the existence of some mythological creatures has been fabricated? Correct me if I'm wrong, Dju. xD; |
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Post by Crystal on Sept 4, 2011 22:46:16 GMT -5
I don't personally think dragons as we think of them existed but I'm happy to postulate that a dragon-like creature probably existed or maybe even still exists and was simply exaggerated. I'm with Sarn here on this. Part of the difficulty we have with proving that dragons exist is that we don't agree on what a dragon is in the first place. Generally, dragons are: a) Scaly/reptilian, sometimes with feathers b) Breathe fire/are poisonous c) May or may not guard treasure d) May or may not have legs And they also often have good (in Asian culture) or bad (in Western culture) spiritual significance. That leaves a lot of wiggle room. If you really wanted to, I'm sure you could just deem some poor lizard a 'dragon' and have at.... so I think that dragons are a legend, and that they should stay that way. They're more fun that way, really, because we get to interpret them however we want! My thoughts on the Loch Ness monster are pretty similar - we don't actually know what it is, except for 'large', 'serpentine' and 'living in the Loch Ness'. I'm open to the concept of it's existence, though. =D (By the way, I don't know if there's any animal able to genuinely breathe fire, but the Bombardier beetle comes close! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle ) |
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Post by insanepurpleone on Sept 4, 2011 23:49:24 GMT -5
I don't have a particularly strong belief about a particular mythical creature existing, but I think it's certainly possible that we'll find the existence of something we never believed to be real before.
Part of me is amazed that with all we know about the world, there could still be these creatures running around, but we are still finding animals we knew nothing about, and learning all sorts of new things, so I don't think it's a complete impossibility.
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Post by Killix on Sept 5, 2011 1:06:42 GMT -5
I believe that Sasquatch (or the other apes like it) and Nessie could be real.
I believe that dragons probably never existed, or were just misidentified reptiles/surviving dinosaurs.
I believe that mermaids are misidentified animals, pure fabrications or hallucinations.
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Post by Draco on Sept 5, 2011 1:42:19 GMT -5
I've always been a fan of cryptids. I'm a huge fan of folklore, and I throw things like cryptids in there, since in many cases people share folk stories, myths, and legends that involve these creatures. Some have been proven real or at least people believe other creature is in fact the cryptid people believe  If they are real or not, I don't really care. They are awesome creatures XD It's actually disappointing to find out something is really a misidentified animal or something. Like how the Kappa in Japan could be a giant salamander?  vs  |
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