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Post by commissarburn on Jul 25, 2011 17:01:15 GMT -5
Ah, kids. One of the greatest target markets of all time.
One thing I will point out is that I think a lot of school food service is actually contracted out to private companies like Sodexo (of Supersize Me infamy, ironically serves the food up in my very own cafeteria), and may not necessarily be tied to the budget of the school. And those private companies are just that: companies. And companies like to turn a profit because that's what companies do. Not necessarily saying that's bad, but sometimes it can be in situations like that.
So when we look at this from a business standpoint, we find that it's cheaper to go the more unhealthy, easy to prepare, sells well type of food. Kids want what they like, and sometimes that doesn't necessarily translate into "healthy." Nowadays, however, we are seeing a drive to more "healthy alternatives" amongst fast food (specifically fast casual businesses, like Panera and the like). Though it's debatable as to how healthy the alternatives are, they're still there.
When it comes to kids, though, they're not thinking. I probably shouldn't have to tell anyone here just how hard it can be to get kids to do anything they don't want and how tinkled they can get if they don't get things their way sometimes.
As for why schools and stuff don't offer more healthy alternatives, I'd suggest you take a look at what other people are getting. Is everyone eating from the salad bar or are they all going for the pizza? And where ever the demand is, you better bet business will be there to fill it with a smile as they rake in their revenue.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2011 13:53:13 GMT -5
I think the solution is this: make the stuff they like better. Put organic tomatoes in your pizza. Use a better cheese. Make sure your meat options are less fatty. (GLQ, I never said meat was bad for you. Like all food, some is better than others.) Kids at my school seem to like the chicken parmasan. Maybe they could have more chicken and less breading, healthier tomato sauce. Or you could also offer eggplant. (I don't know about anyone else, but I LOVE eggplant parmasan. And I think high schoolers, at least, are past what I call the "eggplant is icky" phase that some people have)
And don't give up desserts either! I love ice cream, but the truth is that some ice creams are better. Some are lower fat. Some use real fruit versus artificial stuff. Offer that ice cream. Or frozen yogurt, which is really just a healthier but no less tasty version of ice cream.
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Post by Avery on Aug 6, 2011 14:13:38 GMT -5
Using healthier ingredients is a wonderful idea, and I don't think anyone would argue against that. But the problem is, most schools-- especially public ones-- are broke. They can hardly afford textbooks; they're laying off teachers. Unfortunately, this means that something like using organic tomatoes is not going to be particularly high priority, not very feasible. If it's between cutting classes and using higher quality ingredients, the ingredients are always going to lose. As, sadly, they probably should.
Plus, think about the labor. A lot of the foods you'll find in a school cafeteria require little to no prep, because frankly, expense aside, it's not all so plausible making an organic, healthy dish for say... 1,000 students. Because in general, a meal like that is going to take time. Which in a mass-produced setting (cafeteria) is also not so realistic to expect.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2011 14:29:30 GMT -5
Over here, parents can sign up for 'lunch delivery' for their kids, where they order it online once a week, and the child can pick the meal that appeals to them the most. Since it's an external company and the parents get to pick (with the child) what they feel is best, not only does it cut cost on the school budget, but it also makes sure that the child gets the healthy option, full of taste -and- guarateed fresh.
They oughtta do that in the US =)
But honestly. When it comes down to it, the child's preferences are based on what the parents have been introducing the child to. I've seen a 2 year-old get fed with cheesburgers. And then I look at my own baby, who seems to love everything I introduce her to... even things like olives, feta cheese, broccoli, fish... you name it.
Variety is the key. And parents need to stop being so afraid of taking charge instead of giving in to the pleading child.
And in my own personal opinion - I do not believe in -any- prefabricated, frozen meal is as healthy as what you can make yourself. My own rule of thumb: If I can cook the entire meal in a microwave or the oven or a pot, without any effort, then it's not the healthy choice. No matter what they write on the package.
You need 600 grams of veggies -every- day, for teens and adults. Half that for kids. How many kids today, do you see eating that many veggies? I don't see them, to be honest. You also need to eat fish twice a week. And a lot of kids don't even like fish. Sure, you can get the omega acids and fats from capsules and nuts. But yeah... that doesn't really work in terms of filling the stomach.
But I also blame the prices. Healthy, fresh (and organic) food is so much more expensive than the opposite. They oughtta switch it around.
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Post by commissarburn on Aug 6, 2011 14:36:14 GMT -5
But I also blame the prices. Healthy, fresh (and organic) food is so much more expensive than the opposite. They oughtta switch it around. It's hard; I wouldn't say they're priced like that just because they want to charge more. The organic movement towards smaller, local growers and all that quite frankly costs MORE. You're not seeing the heavy impact of massive industrialized farms, which probably see lower average costs and probably are picking up all those government subsidies to boot. Those costs get passed on. Economies of scale and all that. If you can come up with a way to lower costs of small-time farming, you might see lower costs there.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2011 14:40:35 GMT -5
But I also blame the prices. Healthy, fresh (and organic) food is so much more expensive than the opposite. They oughtta switch it around. It's hard; I wouldn't say they're priced like that just because they want to charge more. The organic movement towards smaller, local growers and all that quite frankly costs MORE. You're not seeing the heavy impact of massive industrialized farms, which probably see lower average costs and probably are picking up all those government subsidies to boot. Those costs get passed on. Economies of scale and all that. If you can come up with a way to lower costs of small-time farming, you might see lower costs there. Put higher taxes on the really unhealthy things like pop, chips, etc. and use those money to help finance the organic farms? I know they've been talking about a 'fat tax' over here, to increase the prices on the unhealthy things.
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Post by commissarburn on Aug 6, 2011 14:45:29 GMT -5
It's hard; I wouldn't say they're priced like that just because they want to charge more. The organic movement towards smaller, local growers and all that quite frankly costs MORE. You're not seeing the heavy impact of massive industrialized farms, which probably see lower average costs and probably are picking up all those government subsidies to boot. Those costs get passed on. Economies of scale and all that. If you can come up with a way to lower costs of small-time farming, you might see lower costs there. Put taxes on the really unhealthy things like pop, chips, etc. and use those money to help finance the organic farms? I know they've been talking about a 'fat tax' over here, to increase the prices on the unhealthy things. I've heard talk about that. I think they might (really unsure) have something like that in a few states or something. Though you're going to see major pushback from the companies that manufacture those things. I know back in my home state it was illegal or something to sell soda or candy on school grounds or something. Remember they took all the soda of the vending machines and replaced it with far-more-expensive gatorade and the like. The so called "healthier alternatives" which were probably not much better. It's a good idea, but I could still see there being a problem in getting those farmers into the chains of stores or into school food service. Like it was mentioned, it could be real difficult to get the food service workers to spend the extra effort to cook for a ton of hungry kids. Far more easy just to pop a pizza in the oven and roll that out.
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Post by Dju on Aug 6, 2011 15:14:48 GMT -5
Besides taxes, I believe national preferences on food are something cultural! In some contries people drink alcohol more often, others they eat less meat...I believe that the government should also invest in information, to let people know what's good for them. In Brazil, healthy habits decreased a LOT lately, so in an attempt to fix this situation there are hundreds of advertisement and documentaries around, and it's working! Even though healthy food is more expensive, people are aware of how agrotoxics and fast food can result in cancer and other kinds of diseases!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2011 15:42:31 GMT -5
Put taxes on the really unhealthy things like pop, chips, etc. and use those money to help finance the organic farms? I know they've been talking about a 'fat tax' over here, to increase the prices on the unhealthy things. Like it was mentioned, it could be real difficult to get the food service workers to spend the extra effort to cook for a ton of hungry kids. Far more easy just to pop a pizza in the oven and roll that out. Which is the base problem, I guess. With all due respect to the American people, but that seems to be the cultural issue: Just... pop it in the micro. Cause it's easy! But the consequences of this 'lazy' attitude shows in the shape of obesity and lifestyle deceases. Mind, it's not just the US. A lot of western countries have that problem. People are getting lazy and just want things to be fast and easy (and cheap), it's just more of an American stigma, unfortunately, because it's more widespread compared to the population. Unfortunately, it seems that the general American is too conservative to want any radical changes to happen (eg. taxes = bad). Either way, the government of each country/state needs to weigh out the results of either choice and see which one will benefit the most in the long run. Like with a good meal, one has to work hard to bring out the best result... same goes for politics and trying to find a solution on how to make healthy food the better option instead of fast food. I have no real facts to back me up on this. I only speak from what I have personally experienced during my time in the US, and from what I hear on the news and such. So forgive me if I lack some information.
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Post by commissarburn on Aug 6, 2011 16:26:59 GMT -5
Like it was mentioned, it could be real difficult to get the food service workers to spend the extra effort to cook for a ton of hungry kids. Far more easy just to pop a pizza in the oven and roll that out. Which is the base problem, I guess. With all due respect to the American people, but that seems to be the cultural issue: Just... pop it in the micro. Cause it's easy! But the consequences of this 'lazy' attitude shows in the shape of obesity and lifestyle deceases. Mind, it's not just the US. A lot of western countries have that problem. People are getting lazy and just want things to be fast and easy (and cheap), it's just more of an American stigma, unfortunately, because it's more widespread compared to the population. Unfortunately, it seems that the general American is too conservative to want any radical changes to happen (eg. taxes = bad). Either way, the government of each country/state needs to weigh out the results of either choice and see which one will benefit the most in the long run. Like with a good meal, one has to work hard to bring out the best result... same goes for politics and trying to find a solution on how to make healthy food the better option instead of fast food. I have no real facts to back me up on this. I only speak from what I have personally experienced during my time in the US, and from what I hear on the news and such. So forgive me if I lack some information. You're actually probably right. We've really grown accustomed to the quick and easy, though in some regards we're seeing a move towards the more healthy and slightly more expensive through the sort of fast-casual dining (stuff like Panera or something). And I know a lot of fast food is trying to rebrand itself as having healthy alternatives, but we're still eating the same junk. Don't even get started trying to get the government in on any of this sort of thing. We can't even fix our darn spending problem (heck, our credit rating with S&P was dropped yesterday, here's hoping Fitch doesn't do the same), so trying to tack THAT on when the House is controlled by people who are complaining we're in too much debt and can't even get a deal off the ground without having a ragefest over the other part of Congress which is doing more or less the same thing is probably next to impossible. Nevermind trying to tack a tax on somewhere; economy's already kinda busted enough as it is and it'd never get through the House. Plus, pretty sure the House Majority is likely to complain about "freedom" and the ability to businesses and the free market to do what they want and people to vote with their dollars or some weird stuff like that. I really doubt you're gonna solve this problem with politics. Least not until after elections shake things up.
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Post by Killix on Aug 7, 2011 19:55:58 GMT -5
Make chocolate bars more expensive? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!1 I agree with what Leo said about laziness. Most people can prepare their own (healthier) foods that'll taste better than microwaved greeseburgers. But a lot of people don't do this, apparently? Because it's not quick and easy enough? It requires more effort than popping a packet of frozen pizza pops into the microwave and hitting a button? In my opinion the problem isn't the existence or obtainability of junk food, it's the laziness of people. Pack a homemade sandwich, applejuice and trailmix/applechips/dry cereal or something else that's crunchy and snacktacular instead of sending your kid off to school with candybars, potato chips and soda. A small pack of fruit snack gummies or a pudding cup won't hurt, either. As long as they're not eating just pizzas and hamburgers for lunch every day. I've only experienced school cafeteria in High School, and the food choices were pretty diverse. All of the food was made fresh every day by the senior home ec. class. XD They had sandwiches, soup, hotdogs, pizza, salads (very delicious salads), fruit salad, fruit, bread, pasta... and a whole bunch of other things I can't remember because I usually packed my own lunch. XD (their cookies were delicious) and there were drinks machines with water, vitamin water, fruit juice (orange, apple, grape and IIRC pineapple), soda, sport drinks (Gatorade) and lemonade. So it really was up to you to decide if you were going to eat healthy or not.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2011 21:48:56 GMT -5
Delete your posts, guys. I deleted mine.
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Post by Tiger on Aug 7, 2011 22:11:02 GMT -5
Delete your posts, guys. I deleted mine. 0.o Why should they? They're having a legitimate debate. You don't have to participate if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean nobody else can argue their points. Forgive me if I'm missing a moderator ruling or something ^^;
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Post by Gelquie on Aug 7, 2011 22:22:37 GMT -5
Delete your posts, guys. I deleted mine. 0.o Why should they? They're having a legitimate debate. You don't have to participate if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean nobody else can argue their points. Forgive me if I'm missing a moderator ruling or something ^^; You hit the nail on the head, Tiger. No one has broken rules, so there's no reason why other posts should go. (Well, unless the author of the post wants to delete their own.)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2011 22:30:24 GMT -5
0.o Why should they? They're having a legitimate debate. You don't have to participate if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean nobody else can argue their points. Forgive me if I'm missing a moderator ruling or something ^^; You hit the nail on the head, Tiger. No one has broken rules, so there's no reason why other posts should go. (Well, unless the author of the post wants to delete their own.) Only because I thought it veered off-topic and started a new debate altogether.
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