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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 19:40:43 GMT -5
As an agnostic theist (meaning, I don't know if there is a God, but I lean that way), I'll just leave this here. Plus, Revalations was allegory for the persecution of the early Church under the Roman empire, if you ask me. The Bible as a whole is a good book, but it was ultimately written by man, even if God provided the basis for it. There was a committee that decided what would and what wouldn't go in the Bible, after all. If it was the definitive word of God, then it would be unabridged and contain the Gospel of Mary Magdalene and other apocrypha. EDIT - I also follow the words of Jesus, as I treat people the way he would. Regardless of whether he was the Messiah or not, he was a very, very good and tolerant - no, he was a welcoming man who was willing to give people a chance, whether they were sinners or not. Even though I believe there's no way to truly know if he was the messiah, I find emulating him to be one of the best ways to go about your life. Helping those who need it most is what he would do; compassion was one of his greatest strengths. Two things - The council you're referring to was the Council of Nicaea, and they weren't the ones who picked the Bible canon, nor determined what we would believe in years to come. They merely took all the views and the teachings they had received and decided which were more in line with the teachings of Christ and of his Apostles. The Bible wasn't compiled until centuries later, and it was merely a reflection of what was already commonly being passed around. All the books in the Bible were already in circulation among the churches in their origonal manuscript form centuries before the Bible was put together, and there were very strict criteria that explain the exclusion of some manuscripts. They wanted it to be accurate, true and good, which meant that, for the new testament (remember the OT was already floating around in the form of the Jewish Torah) the works included had to be either from eyewitnesses of Christ, or from Apostles, those appointed by Christ himself. Also, I think you'll find Jesus is the Hellfire preacher. If you think he's all peace, love and rainbows, you've got the wrong guy, and you'll need to brush up a bit. Not that he doesn't preach those things, mind. I just want to make sure you've got the full picture of the person of Jesus, as a lot of people say they think he's a good teacher, but all they know of him is that he preached love, etc. *fairly irrelevant point, but glances at the list of dates* "7 BC—The year Jesus Christ was born (11,006 years from creation)." ...um I was under every impression that he was born in year 1, I mean, that's kind of what the whole calendar change was for in the first place, isn't it ?_? I'm also curious as to where he's getting these exact years, since last I checked, that was a little unclear. XD; I believe the calendar reset was either Christ's death or resurrection, which were only really three days apart, so it doesn't matter so much. He was trotting around for thirty odd years in the BCs before the ADs marched in. ^^ That is kind of my point. If you (the figurative "you", as in "anyone") genuinely believe in Judgement Day or Hell or Sin, as many Christians claim to, it doesn't make sense to not be a little bit scared about it or to refrain from telling other people about it, and if you don't believe in it, then why claim to be a Christian? A lot of people seem to take the middle position: "Sure, I believe that Hell exists and that there's a possibility that people I know will experience an eternity of pain, but I don't believe it strongly enough to let it bother me." That doesn't make sense to me. If you're just going to interpret the moral teachings of the Bible into what you believe to be rational, then why not eliminate the middleman and just believe in your own rationality independently of the Bible? Well of course, the knowledge of Hell and Judgement Day would be a motivating factor in people trying to spread the Gospel (not to mention it was Jesus's Great Commission to go forth and spread the Word). Personally, I don't believe doomsday-preaching or guilt-mongering is a good way to show anyone the goodness of Christ's salvation, so even if Hell is your own personal motivation to try to spread the Word, it might not be the right message. Still, I don't fault the old guy for trying to warn people; I don't fault his conviction. I just take umbrage at the vanity that he can predict to-the-date the day of the Rapture. Also, there's a difference between trying to understand the Bible as it's written, versus trying to fit the Bible into what you believe to be rational. If something I believe in contradicts what the Bible tells me is true, then I'm the one in the wrong and need to change how I believe. Thing is, that's not the main motivation. Yeah, Hell is a nasty side-effect, but it's not like we think we should be running about telling people they should convert for fear of Hell, that's just, to use a phrase I picked up from a friend, pants on head crazy. The actual message of the Christian faith is not "you're gonna burn so you'd better turn", but "Christ loves you, died for your sins and rose again for your victory, and he wants you to follow him". Yes, there's fear of Hell, and rightly so, but what takes up my life is the joy of knowing that I'm loved by an unfailing love. <3 The gratitude because I'm beginning to understand the magnitude of the gift I've been given, and when you get a good gift, you want to share it around - for others' salvation and their joy, too. And you don't spread a good message in a bad way, or the good message will be corrupted. |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 21:37:53 GMT -5
I know this is really veering off the current Bible debate, but I need to say it: I'm scared. Even though my mind knows that this guy is a total loony, I'm still creeped out. I'm scared that I'll wake up tomorrow and my parents will not be there. I'm scared that I will step out of my bed and the floor will disintegrate beneath my feet and I'll fall into a bottomless pit of blackness. I'm scared that I will wake up and be too weak to even open my eyes.
Please don't let this post get buried. I want someone here to give me a hug and tell me it's just my imagination. I want reassurance that no evil little fairy-shaped things will take me to their dark fortress and turn me into their possession tool to do their evil bidding. Please.
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Post by Pacmanite on May 20, 2011 21:38:54 GMT -5
Just quickly... I approve of what you said, Sarn. I just want to make a minor point of clarification. ^^; I believe the calendar reset was either Christ's death or resurrection, which were only really three days apart, so it doesn't matter so much. He was trotting around for thirty odd years in the BCs before the ADs marched in. ^^ I think you got that impression because of the assumption that "AD" stands for "After Death". It's meant to be "Anno Domini", Latin for "in the years of our master", and was intended to be from the birth year of Jesus. But the monk had got the dates off by about 6 years, and by the time the mistake was found it had already become a standard reference point for naming dates. So the era is now grandfathered in, even though most will agree that Jesus birth happened some years earlier. (His birth was during a census year, which happens on a fixed cycle.) |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 21:40:15 GMT -5
STOP THE DEBATE ALREADY AND READ MY POST!
...seriously, what's more important? Bible chat or helping someone in need?
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Post by Dan on May 20, 2011 21:49:06 GMT -5
STOP THE DEBATE ALREADY AND READ MY POST! ...seriously, what's more important? Bible chat or helping someone in need? Sae, you need to calm down. You posted four minutes ago asking for assistance in a thread that is in the Discussions and Debates board, you can't expect people to "stop the debate" immediately when that's why many are here. I'm sorry you're feeling upset, but perhaps a thread in Banter Board would help you to get more replies that you're hoping for. Unfortunately, trying to derail the conversation from its intention in order to comfort you is not going to get you what you want. |
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Post by Pacmanite on May 20, 2011 21:59:48 GMT -5
Sorry I didn't see your post before I posted, Sae. *hugs* It will be okay. Harold Camping has already been proven wrong with his doomsday date twice before.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 22:12:14 GMT -5
Ohyeah, thanks for clearing that up, Pac. I did know what AD stood for (I studied Latin for three years. xD) but things don't often click in my mind. *chuckles*
Sae, honey, Pac's post was one minute after yours, and I don't know about everyone else, but it usually takes me more than a minute to post. Likely, she clicked reply before you posted. Don't get your knickers in a twist, just have a bit of patience. I know you're upset, but I also know you know it's irrational. *hugs* Give people a chance to show compassion, 'kay?
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Post by Yoyti on May 20, 2011 22:41:20 GMT -5
I know this is really veering off the current Bible debate, but I need to say it: I'm scared. Even though my mind knows that this guy is a total loony, I'm still creeped out. I'm scared that I'll wake up tomorrow and my parents will not be there. I'm scared that I will step out of my bed and the floor will disintegrate beneath my feet and I'll fall into a bottomless pit of blackness. I'm scared that I will wake up and be too weak to even open my eyes. Please don't let this post get buried. I want someone here to give me a hug and tell me it's just my imagination. I want reassurance that no evil little fairy-shaped things will take me to their dark fortress and turn me into their possession tool to do their evil bidding. Please. Sae, don't worry. Harold Camping is a lunatic, and even if he's right, he says it won't happen until 6:00 p.m. so you have time to meet with your family if you're scared. I'm scared about this too, but my fear is more about what will become of Harold Camping and his followers. |
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Post by Crystal on May 20, 2011 23:00:14 GMT -5
A big hug to Sae. Really, this is why the guy should be smacked, for scaring people like this! What gloomifies me is what a nice site he has; how much good material is there. I mean, this guy supports downloads of eBibles, has a website in lots of languages... and he intersperses all this amazing stuff with... arithmetic? What? Anyway, as Jesus said: At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time.
“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."
(Matthew 24:23) Given that Jesus had books written about him, performed miracles, and is the Son of God, I vote for believing Jesus over Harold Camping. |
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Post by Yoyti on May 20, 2011 23:15:10 GMT -5
Here's a link if you're feeling scared. It certainly made me laugh! thesop.org/story/20110518/top-10-reasons-why-harold-camping-is-wrong-world-wont-end-may-212011.htmlAnd I know, it stereotypes Christians and old people, but it's a joke to help relieve the tension. So don't take it too seriously. EDIT: And is it sad that I'm listening to the song "One Day More" (which has the line "Tomorrow is the judgement day")? And by the way, One Day More is an epic song. Sae, that will also probably cheer you up. |
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Post by Cow-winkle on May 20, 2011 23:51:04 GMT -5
I know this is really veering off the current Bible debate, but I need to say it: I'm scared. Even though my mind knows that this guy is a total loony, I'm still creeped out. I'm scared that I'll wake up tomorrow and my parents will not be there. I'm scared that I will step out of my bed and the floor will disintegrate beneath my feet and I'll fall into a bottomless pit of blackness. I'm scared that I will wake up and be too weak to even open my eyes. Please don't let this post get buried. I want someone here to give me a hug and tell me it's just my imagination. I want reassurance that no evil little fairy-shaped things will take me to their dark fortress and turn me into their possession tool to do their evil bidding. Please. Sae, don't worry. Harold Camping is a lunatic, and even if he's right, he says it won't happen until 6:00 p.m. so you have time to meet with your family if you're scared. I'm scared about this too, but my fear is more about what will become of Harold Camping and his followers. Not only that, but--and I am not making this up--his followers claim the rapture will be a " rolling judgement", in which your time of judgement depends on your time zone--they claim it'll start at the International Date Line (apparently the rapture follows the same arbitrary standards as human geographers and airports) and move East. So you can always just keep an eye on news reports from New Zealand an hour from now and, when nothing happens, stop worrying. |
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2011 0:46:23 GMT -5
Sae, don't worry. Harold Camping is a lunatic, and even if he's right, he says it won't happen until 6:00 p.m. so you have time to meet with your family if you're scared. I'm scared about this too, but my fear is more about what will become of Harold Camping and his followers. Not only that, but--and I am not making this up--his followers claim the rapture will be a " rolling judgement", in which your time of judgement depends on your time zone--they claim it'll start at the International Date Line (apparently the rapture follows the same arbitrary standards as human geographers and airports) and move East. So you can always just keep an eye on news reports from New Zealand an hour from now and, when nothing happens, stop worrying. *is a Kiwi* I'll let y'all know how it turns out. xDDDDDDDD |
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2011 1:02:34 GMT -5
It's 6:02pm on the 21st of May, 2011 in New Zealand. Still kicking. :3
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2011 1:13:14 GMT -5
What I made about this just for the lulz. Warning: a tad bit of language, nothing major.
Tamia note: No pictures containing inappropriate words, please.
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Post by Pacmanite on May 21, 2011 3:02:59 GMT -5
6:02 pm in Melbourne, Australia, and everything is fine.
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neo username - dan4884 
