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Post by Stal on Jun 23, 2009 18:39:19 GMT -5
I think the restrictions would work well with the guild's leader(s) deciding for themselves. Meaning if the Chefs guild wants to exclude anyone from the Demolitioners Guild from joining, that's fine... while the Disco DJ guild might be okay with allowing anyone to join. Or even if the Candlemakers want enough attention as to say "If you're already in three, forget it." Etc. I'm very much in favor of leaving it to the guilds to decide individually. |
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Post by Kengplant on Jun 23, 2009 18:56:32 GMT -5
I think pirates already have a long tradition of not allowing Ninjas in, and the Ninjas having the same stance to pirates. It's been a rivalry that has been rather pacifist for the past few years, but still smolders quietly. I imagine that if it weren't for the number of Knights already in the pirates that they might get the boot as well.
As for the sky pirates, that would be odd as I would see that more as a second half to the pirate guild. They might operate as two separate ships/crew, but still be of the same guild, which is another option to explore. Multiple factions within a guild. Mages for instance might be able to split into "white" and "black" magic users, but still be the same guild with the same goals etc. That's for the individual guilds to decide on though.
And for the record, I still think that if we're going to drop the guild number restrictions that there should be a cooling off period between joining guilds. Only about a week or so, but if someone comes in and sees these cool guilds they might go nuts and sign up for all of them. 1 week cooling before joining the second guild, another week before you can join any guild you want. So no more than a 2 week waiting period before you can go crazy joining everything which really isn't that long, but should be long enough for people to get their feet wet before committing.
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Post by Cyborg on Jun 23, 2009 20:10:51 GMT -5
Well, Stal, even though only Hunty and I have voiced opinions against removing the restrictions, our opinions matter. Everyone's does, and I think it's completely unfair that those who are against it, won't end up mattering at all, because the majority will just end up say " Too bad for them, majority rules, sucks to be them." sorta thing, which isn't fair even though I know it will happen. And Stal as for not having any logic behind my reasoning, I was on another forum last year, for mainly Gay, Bi, Lesbian and Transgenders. Who would get together and help eachother, chat, rp, and such. I saw something similar happen, and it was a success, at first but after about a couple weeks, it died. Said forum, I haven't been on in months, because of the inactivity.
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Post by Enn on Jun 23, 2009 20:43:27 GMT -5
I really don't wanna like, rain on your opinion or anything Cyborg. I can certainly see where you're coming from, and the arguments against changing things are there. But for a start could you link to this forum that died because of a shakeup? Because I think it's likely that was a forum-wide change, and this is just a minor alteration to a subsection of the NTWF- one that you may feel strongly about, sure, but still only a tiny part of the NTWF. If I'm wrong, still doesn't mean what happened on one forum is gonna happen on another, with a completely different community, focus etc.
Also, let's face it- the Guilds have been dying anyway. There's been splutters of activity, but all this debate and everything has produced the most activity since GW2. So honestly, this change can't exactly make the situation that much worse.
Finally, I'd say this is a 'majority rules' situation because it's giving people more freedom, not taking it away. If it was a change that would take away the freedom to belong to 3 guilds, for example, and make it 2- and there is no way to build a convincing argument that 3 is a better number than 2, since it's all subjective- then that sucks, because people like you that want to belong to 3 would not be allowed. As it is this is giving more freedom- if you don't want to belong to more than 3 fine, but other people should be allowed to. I've seen nobody even comment that they want to apart from seemingly Stal, so already we have one person interested by the changes. But honestly, it just seems completely out of character for you to want to restrict freedoms in favour of a system that hasn't been working, essentially discriminating against those that want to do something different- like belong to four Guilds.
Not that I've to see anyone except perhaps Stal who wants to do that anyway. I dunno how many people currently belong to the maximum of 3 guilds as the situation stands, but I'd bet that it's a small number.
Maybe someone else has an objection to 'majority rule' in this case though? 'cause I don't wanna make a poll and then for it not to matter
Finally, this is all a very minor detail in the big picture anyway xD It's surprising it's made this much debate
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Post by Killix on Jun 23, 2009 20:50:04 GMT -5
If a poll is made, then the majority rule wins anyway. XD
What are the other options? Compromise doesn't work if nobody wants to budge.
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Post by Elcie on Jun 23, 2009 21:29:16 GMT -5
Cyborg, allow me to make a brief illustration.
You're in three guilds and doing a splendid job of it. You even ran the Mercs for a brief time. On top of that, you have about three characters in Mercs last I checked. And, you know, that's great. I'm glad you can juggle all of that effectively. I, on the other hand, get burned out a lot more easily. I was in Mages and Pirates when I founded Mercs; dropped out of Pirates quite quickly; then Mages dropped off the radar as I tried to focus my attention on Mercs. I'm just not as good at carrying on multiple guilds as you are, period. I'm different that way. I'm trying to get better, with this revival, but it simply doesn't come as easily to me.
So should I assume that everyone has my capabilities and limit guild membership to one or two, rather than allowing super-active people like you to do what they do best? Rather than trying to improve myself because I want to become active in Mages and Pirates again? I think not.
Additionally, that's a good point. Improving one's capabilities. You did, you know. When you first started handling multiple characters in Mercs... sorry, but you were pretty bad at it. You kind of stopped interacting with the rest of us at all for a while, having Cyborg and Midknight fight each other while the rest of us continued with the RP plot. But now look at you. You kept going, you learned, and look at you now. Three guilds, multiple characters and hardly breaking a sweat. Some of the "jack-of-all-trades" people may drop out or be inactive, true, but some of them will keep going. They'll drop the characters they don't want, or they'll learn to handle all six or however many. I think this will encourage newcomers rather than killing activity, quite honestly.
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Post by Spoon on Jun 24, 2009 1:48:30 GMT -5
It doesn’t seem to me to be a case of your views being deemed irrelevant – but there is at the moment a straight choice between keeping the limit and removing/changing it, and would it be more fair to disregard the opinions of more people because there is some support for the current idea?
Perhaps, then, there should be some sort of age limit on being able to have more characters in – as in, you would need to have proven you could stay active in three guilds for a certain period of time before being allowed to enter a fourth. That way, you would need some sort of dedication to your characters to be able to enter the number of guilds that you would like – and, presumably, with enough time spent with the characters, it would prevent you suggesting that your character Captain Blackbeard became a Ninja.
Again, though, I speak as somebody very new to this whole system, so I have to admit I’m not all too familiar with the rivalries and how they pan out. Would it be possible for the guilds themselves to establish specific rules that meant that, for example, a character that was a Pirate couldn’t become a Ninja? Would that help to prevent the erosion of rivalries?
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Post by Cyborg on Jun 24, 2009 7:56:41 GMT -5
Well if we are to drop the guild limit, and we do have guild specific rules, I say the guild specific rules, should all be posted on one thread, maybe a welcome thread or something, aswell as the specific guild's welcome area.
And Elcy you are correct, I was quite dreadful, and I see your point. So...sorry Hunty, I'm kinda turning toward the dropping the limit of three. Heck I might even try a Jack of MOST Trades, not those filthy pajama wearing ninjas though. XD Love you PFA, don't kill me.
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Post by Vyt: Down, but Not Out on Jun 24, 2009 8:04:38 GMT -5
And Elcy you are correct, I was quite dreadful, and I see your point. So...sorry Hunty, I'm kinda turning toward the dropping the limit of three. Heck I might even try a Jack of MOST Trades, not those filthy pajama wearing ninjas though. XD Love you PFA, don't kill me. Oh, it's not PFA you should be afraid of... *brandishes kunai* |
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Post by Cyborg on Jun 24, 2009 8:10:28 GMT -5
And Elcy you are correct, I was quite dreadful, and I see your point. So...sorry Hunty, I'm kinda turning toward the dropping the limit of three. Heck I might even try a Jack of MOST Trades, not those filthy pajama wearing ninjas though. XD Love you PFA, don't kill me. Oh, it's not PFA you should be afraid of... *brandishes kunai* I love you too Vyt!  Oh that reminds me. I had a Science exam yesterday and I was trying to remember a science formula for energy. E=VxIxt, so I used you're name. XD So apparently according to my little memory trick, Energy is equal to Vyt. |
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Post by Shoichi Kobayashi on Jun 24, 2009 8:56:59 GMT -5
Oh, now, pirates and ninjas can get along. After all, why should we conflict? You get the sea, we get the land, you get the loot, we get the contract fees. The fact that that ninjas have sometimes been been hired by certain trade guilds to remove particularly successful pirates is based on nothing personal whatsoever ~_^
Honestly, I get the feeling that the conflict arose from a scene in a bar somewhere, one of those "Sake" vs. "Rum" type arguments XD
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Post by Cyborg on Jun 24, 2009 9:20:54 GMT -5
Oh, now, pirates and ninjas can get along. After all, why should we conflict? You get the sea, we get the land, you get the loot, we get the contract fees. The fact that that ninjas have sometimes been been hired by certain trade guilds to remove particularly successful pirates is based on nothing personal whatsoever ~_^ Honestly, I get the feeling that the conflict arose from a scene in a bar somewhere, one of those "Sake" vs. "Rum" type arguments XD I don't know, I think the Ninja/Pirate rule should stay. And Ninja's watch out, cause the mercenaries are going to be taking all your contracts. We're the hit...people, for hire now.  |
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Post by Huntress on Jun 24, 2009 11:53:39 GMT -5
And Elcy you are correct, I was quite dreadful, and I see your point. So...sorry Hunty, I'm kinda turning toward the dropping the limit of three. Heck I might even try a Jack of MOST Trades, not those filthy pajama wearing ninjas though. XD Love you PFA, don't kill me. Hey, this isn't a clique thing x'D I have my opinion, I'm sticking to it, it won't change, but if things end up going differently, you won't see me kicking and screaming, I'll just sail on as always. Oh, now, pirates and ninjas can get along. After all, why should we conflict? You get the sea, we get the land, you get the loot, we get the contract fees. The fact that that ninjas have sometimes been been hired by certain trade guilds to remove particularly successful pirates is based on nothing personal whatsoever ~_^ Honestly, I get the feeling that the conflict arose from a scene in a bar somewhere, one of those "Sake" vs. "Rum" type arguments XD I like this guy :3 Really, for that exact reason I've never actually enforced the no-ninja rule. We have no overlap, we have no apparent conflict of interests, whytheheck should we feud just because years back, some pirate and ninja couldn't decide who's going to foot the bill? S'why Cap'n Hunty loathes the knights (she has a solid reason) but regards ninjas with a kind of cold indifference (a bunch of black-clad people living in the woods). We've written a too logical canon in the guilds over the years, I've sortof become unable to do anything Just Because recently. The guilds have simply become too serious for that. Plus, anyone who kept up with GW2 can testify that I tend more towards taking everyone under my paw regardless of alliances. (What? I'm a pirate captain, ergo, I'm a puppeteer. It's in the job description and everything.) Granted, due to some backstabbing in the aforesaid GW2, the current ninjas would run into major issues (major pointy issues) if they wanted to join the pirates, but that's an individual thing rather than a blanket rule. All that aside, a time limit on joining new guilds sounds pretty reasonable. Join all you want, but first prove us that you're able to keep up with 'em, because nobody likes wishy-washy people who jump in with a WHEE that turns into '...erm' a while later, and then we end up waiting on them in RPs as they try to deal with seventeen different things at once. Even a week or two could work fairly well, depending on the current guilds' activity rates. *muses* |
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Post by Vyt: Down, but Not Out on Jun 25, 2009 10:29:43 GMT -5
Oh, now, pirates and ninjas can get along. After all, why should we conflict? You get the sea, we get the land, you get the loot, we get the contract fees. The fact that that ninjas have sometimes been been hired by certain trade guilds to remove particularly successful pirates is based on nothing personal whatsoever ~_^ Honestly, I get the feeling that the conflict arose from a scene in a bar somewhere, one of those "Sake" vs. "Rum" type arguments XD I like this guy :3 Really, for that exact reason I've never actually enforced the no-ninja rule. We have no overlap, we have no apparent conflict of interests, whytheheck should we feud just because years back, some pirate and ninja couldn't decide who's going to foot the bill? S'why Cap'n Hunty loathes the knights (she has a solid reason) but regards ninjas with a kind of cold indifference (a bunch of black-clad people living in the woods). We've written a too logical canon in the guilds over the years, I've sortof become unable to do anything Just Because recently. The guilds have simply become too serious for that. Mutual hatred placed aside, I understand Hunty's point of view. It is quite awhile since a dispute of any size occured between the ninjas and pirates (in GW2, PFA even decided to temporarily seek refuge under the pirates; an act that would've not been condoned by the early ninjas). Both guilds would have to respect each other's spaces (of course, unless either applies underhanded strategies to do so), but otherwise they are free to interact with the ex-opposing side. And with that being said, let me be as I create exploding kunai that will activate whenever a ninja tries to get close to a pirate. Y'know, for security reasons. I've heard that gunpowder removes that rum stench as well. Back to the topic, creating a guild needs more than initial motivation. A time limit would sufficiently test out the long-tern dedication of the new members; they would have to prove that the guild can keep up with the already existing ones. |
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Post by Shoichi Kobayashi on Jun 25, 2009 11:43:52 GMT -5
Actually, I find it very interesting that ninja and mercs don't necessarily have to have overlap. I mentioned contract fees because it's a truth that some ninja are hired killers, but I happen to see being a ninja as more of a lifestyle choice. In fact, I had been planning to run another dojo RP on that very topic sometime. That ninja tend to make very good hired killers is really just a matter of career choice, and is one of many.
Take Shoi for example. He's never done any contract killing, ever. His history is that of a wanderer, looking for injustice and righting it where he sees it. He is a ninja in every way in terms of training, skills, clan loyalty and mentality; he just chooses to assassinate people for what he sees as the greater good as opposed to money. The other thing he does is try to act as sensei to others who would follow his way - that's an aspect of his clan loyalty, in attempting to expand his clan.
I think all of this is relevant here because it demonstrates how the ninja guild has potential that is possibly not being used right now, especially in that it does not need to conflict with the mercs.
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Oh that reminds me. I had a Science exam yesterday and I was trying to remember a science formula for energy. E=VxIxt, so I used you're name. XD So apparently according to my little memory trick, Energy is equal to Vyt.
